Reddy

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 11, 2011 -> 11:46 AM) It would help greatly if they didn't say they weren't blaming Palin yet pointing to her very specific target map on a constant basis. That's the same as this: The sky is NOT gray when it rains! It's a mix of black and white! Look, if you want t blame her, man the f*** up and say it...because I KNOW some of you want too. You may not be saying it here, but you know that a small part of you, deep down, WISHES that this ends up pointing to that map and Palin in specific when all is said an done. i'm saying she's part of the culture that can lead these things to happen. this guy was/is insane, and the political climate may or may not have caused him to kill. that being said, why shouldn't we take this opportunity to tone it down? i guess is my real point in all this...

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 11, 2011 -> 11:42 AM) Except YOU, with your very first post in this thread: Did you NOT read the rest of my posts? I backed off and admitted that as a knee-jerk shouldnt-have-said reaction really man?

I want to make this perfectly clear: No. One. Is. Blaming. Palin. Hope that helped.

QUOTE (kwill @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 06:03 PM) Stop trying to sell me car insurance. FINALLY. I've always thought this.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 10:15 PM) A lot of this 'climate of hate' is being created by the Democrats. Just look at their opportunistic and slanderous rhetoric after this tragedy. They need to need to tone it down numerous notches. aaaare you kidding me? people who view the world like you do are the reason i've been becoming more and more apathetic to politics in the last couple years. it's literally like banging your head against a wall repeatedly. (and yes I do mean literally).

QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 09:45 PM) My side is we need to ratchet down the rhetoric to a level that actual will allow for cooperation and lesson the "sides". No validation, just sick of the hate and the who cares what is best for America as long as the other side loses. Bush sucks so Dems want him (and by extension the country) to fail. The GOP wants Obama to fail so they can say I told you so. I think that is wrong. Are you really defending ads with gun targets? pretty amazing huh?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 07:18 PM) man, reading this thread from page 1 made me almost as sick as hearing the news of this tragedy. Agree with those who say we should be concerned for the victims and their families. f*** the people who brought politics into this. Dude was insane. Period. Barney the dinosaur could have set him off, doesn't mean anyone else is responsible. I hope he has his public trial and is put to death immediately. let me put this simply so you understand. Insane people also have reasons for taking action. Whether those reasons make sense to us is irrelevant. You're suggesting we shouldn't look for the reasons, simply because he's insane. You do realize how idiotic that is, correct?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 07:49 PM) Because it should take common sense to realize that in the minutes following a tragedy, you shouldn't already be trying to exploit it for your personal gain. No one has said never, but good god, the bullets had hardly stopped flying before people started picking their favorite people to blame for this. I don't see how anyone could feel that somebodies else's horrific loss should be fair game for your own gain. GIVE ME ONE PERSON WHO HAS DONE THAT! they're pointing out that Palin had her in cross hairs on a map. of course it's just coincidental, but what everyone is talking about is the CLIMATE that that kind of thing creates. Not one person has said it's Palins FAULT this happened. And not one person I've heard has tried to spin it for political gain. EDIT: For the record, my first post was a knee-jerk reaction from which I've receded. So you can say I did if you want, but if you use me, I want another one too.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 03:43 PM) I'm excited going into every year because I love my team and baseball in general. But this does have the feel of a bait thread. Even if you truly didn't intend it to be that way. Nothing wrong with being excited and at the same time a little skeptical. you're the only one who would think of this thread that way. everyone else is excited. me included!

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 12:46 PM) the violent liberal rhetoric of Anti-Flag combined with crazy Ron Paul speeches pushed him over the edge. A potent combination. What do you suggest we do? How can we live in a society that has both things available for the public to hear? i suggest we let both things remain available without the added violence-inciting rhetoric.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 12:27 PM) I don't, but his close friends do. Here's what they are saying. http://twitter.com/caitieparker Maybe we can ban Rush Limbaugh and whatever music he listened to. That should keep us safe. lol amazing. i love people like you. who said anything about banning anything? taking a point and pushing it to its extreme. just like mr. limbaugh and the rest of your party does.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 12:11 PM) Some left wing loon shoots Gabrielle Giffords and the Suntimes is mad at FOX news. Classic. wow. i'm glad you know him well enough to be informed of his political leanings.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 11:35 AM) FWIW, go back and look at the thread after the gunman shot up the army base. I am pretty sure I said almost the exact same thing. There aren't many things I respect less than people who instantly try to spin tragedy into their favor. remind me, who on this board is doing that right now?

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 11:29 AM) Well, I agree with you 100% on the media and how they report, that's for damn sure. But they're doing that because that's what the people want, so it's akin to a snowball going down a hill, growing bigger and more out of control the more momentum/size it gains. I just feel that even if we preached nothing but love, these same people would still corrupt the message and do these things, and we will (as sane people) never understand why, and always search for reasons where none exist. It's human nature to search for reasons. I mean hell, that's why religion exists. I guess at this juncture we just don't know whether or not reasons exist, in this particular case, so we naturally jump to whatever conclusion is most logical. True, we don't know for absolute certainty that politics played a part. But we do know the guy was extremely political/anti-government. We do know he even referred to Giffords district. We know he made comments about immigration, an issue that both Giffords AND Judge Roll felt very strongly about. We know he shot her first. That's about it. I guess we'll have to wait and see for the rest. There has to be a reason, or an assortment of reasons. There always are. Whether those reasons make SENSE to us as sane individuals, is something else entirely. But he certainly felt he had a reason or he wouldn't have done it.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 11:13 AM) Fair enough. But this is an endless argument and throughout history, which is replete with excuse after excuse to blame society for creating an inflammatory climate of hate instead of blaming the crazy people that do these things. It's funny I live in this SAME society but I don't run around shooting people. But I guess if I did, I have a built in excuse because you're giving it to me. Let's look at this from the opposite angle, instead of society creating an inflammatory climate of hate (and parts of it do), let's look at sects of society that create climates of love, and there ARE parts of society that do. You can preach love all you want, in society, in church, anywhere...but the wrong person will always take it the wrong way, twist it, corrupt it, and use it however they see fit. It's on the person, in how they interpret it, and how they abide by it that matters in the end. you're right, but we're not talking about sane people like me and you, who would never go to such lengths to be heard/make a point/fix a perceived injustice as whipping out a gun and unloading on a crowd. we're talking about someone already prone to violence, to whom we gave a target. we put a TARGET on Giffords, and then she was shot. And yes, this has happened throughout history, but why not take steps to end it? Why not use this as an excuse to ratchet back the metaphors and the calls to violence? what harm can that do? as for your love/hate point... how often do you hear glen beck, bill o'reilly, jon stewart, keith olbermann, Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, etc etc etc talk about love? How often do you hear them reporting the GOOD in the world? You don't. Love doesn't have a place in our mainstream media because it's not sensationalist, doesn't sell, and doesn't make the media execs money. The average person hears the hate and misses out on the good.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 10:49 AM) Maybe she wasn't the target, maybe the judge was. But this doesn't fit your cause, so it couldn't be the judge he targeted! It MUST be the congresswoman, because then we can partially blame Palin! Or, maybe he was targeting both of them. Or ALL of them. We don't know. But jumping to conclusions is awesome regardless of not having any facts yet. In either case, I think creating excuses for people like this is the very problem I have with this argument. The biggest hole in this argument is that it's one huge if/then/else statement, with infinite possible outcomes, none of which we will ever know. I'm sure if we look throughout history, we can find some sort of excuse to blame society on every murder that's ever occurred, after all, that's easier than just blaming the people that carried out the actual deed. It's highly possible that this anti-government cockbag targeted these specific people merely because of geographical location and NOT because Palin used rhetorical brainwashing in order to get him to kill them! He walked up to HER and shot her in the head point blank FIRST. sounds like a target to me. and for the record, i've already said that i'm not BLAMING Palin. It's everybody that creates this inflammatory climate of hate in which we live.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 10:46 AM) Yes, that's exactly what I said. Jump to more conclusions. You're entire attempt at an argument here is what makes no sense. The cause is mental illness and a penchant for murder and lack of respect for life devoid of morals. What more do you need here? I don't get it. so what made HER the target then? if you're an expert.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) I maintain that IF the stressor(s) we think caused it didn't exist, he would have found another to replace it. and maybe he would have found a different target.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 09:19 AM) Well, considering he killed a bunch of people, while it [may have been] meant to be a targeted killing, it's mixed with a lot of psycho considering he shot a bunch of others, regardless of their political affiliation. Wasn't the judge a G.H. Senior appointee? In either case, I agree there is no value in that type of rhetoric, but that rhetoric isn't what's necessary/needed for a psycho like this to kill people. It's just sane people searching for a reason where there is none to be found. so what do you suggest? we just get over it and move on and put on blinders to the causes? jeez man. that makes all the sense in the world.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 8, 2011 -> 10:54 PM) I beg all of you to not turn this into a Digg/Reddit, left vs right, Palin and Fox news cause all of our problems (and this one) festival of stupid. I already see some of you leaning that way, and you're smarter/better than that. At least, you should be. Don't make an act of criminal insanity a political soap box for your opinions, because it makes you a piece of garbage when you do. And I don't care if you agree with me on this or not. Seriously. why is it that we must assume it's an act of random criminal insanity? why is it completely impossible that it was motivated by something else? and how can you disagree that using violent rhetoric when referring to other public servants is a dangerous thing? EDIT: and Y2HH please refer to the post Balta made quoting the sheriff.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 8, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) Her last Tweet: Fox News made a semi-tasteless comment about the highlighted part. of course they did. are we surprised?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 8, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) The sadder thing is that bodies aren't even cold yet, and people are already trying to spin this for political gain. 1) that's certainly not SADDER than the fact that it occurred in the first place 2) this isn't for political GAIN, it's saying that the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that's spewed on FOX news, MSNBC and wherever the f*** else is dangerous because stupid people will take it seriously and act on it. It just so happens that the Right is much more guilty of this than the left. (regarding violent rhetoric. also the right doesn't favor gun control thus.........)

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jan 8, 2011 -> 06:33 PM) Doesn't really seem to be a factor in this case. Blaming this on Sarah Palin is fairly absurd. we have no idea at this juncture what is and is not a factor. EDIT: and you're right - it's certainly premature to blame this on Palin and probably absurd, you're right. But what other politician creates maps with crosshairs on it targeting congresspeople you want "taken out"?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 8, 2011 -> 06:29 PM) Seriously sir, I would not go that far. i'm not saying she encouraged it, i'm not saying he did it because of political motivations, and it's not just Sarah Palin, but the fearmongering that goes on and the calls to action using gun imagery, etc eventually creates an environment in which these things will happen.

this is what happens when you encourage an atmosphere of radical, irrational fear and hatred and use ridiculous rhetoric like Sarah Palin does. Unbelievable. It was just a matter of time I guess.