Reddy

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 03:10 PM) He could publicly tell McConnell that he won't vote for a single Republican agenda item as long as Moore's in the Senate. That doesn't make sense. Why would he vote against policies he wants enacted?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 08:33 PM) Here is conscientious objector Jeff Flake who totally announced a month ago "I will not be complicit!" proudly on the Senate floor photographed 2 days ago sitting next to accused sexual assaulter Donald Trump while Donald Trump defended Roy Moore. Complicitly. What would you like him to do in that moment beyond his donating to Jones' campaign?

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 11:01 PM) Not saying this applies to anything going on, but as a young man I "played the field" and wouldn't commit to a woman because I just wanted to experience what was out there. This led to a lot of bitter young women who made up plenty of false claims to slander me. I think their motives were often "well this will get his attention and scare off other women at the same time". A scorned woman is a powerful weapon and I was smeared like crazy for loving and not committing. Not proud of my actions looking back but I had plenty of false info spread about me that I had to unfairly answer for. I'm sure many of you experienced the same thing. Not saying this applies to any of these famous cases, but that level of scorned & crazy is certainly out there in droves, men and women. Can't help but wonder. I'm proud of the women who were assaulted coming forward and i'm sorry for the men who are innocent. And we'll never know who is who since they are all guilty first. Human beings. 2% of allegations related to sex crimes are false. that means if you inherently trust the accuser, you'll be right 98 times out of 100. If you inherently trust the accused, you'll be right 2 out of 100. Which is the side on which we should err?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 08:48 PM) My comment would be I'd like to think if a man boss behaves himself properly and does not sexually harass those who work for him ... I'd like to believe he'd avoid problems for himself with the company and/or the court system. Seriously. If you behave yourself I still have confidence in our legal system and I'd think companies would not fire the bosses without proper investigations. If you are innocent you have nothing to worry about I'd still like to believe (I can't believe I'm standing up for the suits here; I am normally not a huge fan of those CEOs who run certain businesses and the ultra rich certainly don't need Greg's support). But anyhow I can be naive, but I'd like to believe the law has your back if you are not guilty of sexual harassment. I'm sure there are many cases of people, men and women both, saying they got harassed to either a.) try to get some $$$ settlement or b.) get even with the boss for rude behavior. Seriously? That is a fricking lot of congress members. Kick 'em all to the curb if they guilty. And I think Access Hollywood should release the Trump tape. Why not? have him say it out loud so we can get him impeached. Bernie baby in 2020! Can't wait for a Bernie allegation #triggered

Cory Gardner has been LOUDLY denouncing Moore and continues to do so.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 03:28 PM) This seems like a pretty good reason too Sweet lord.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 5, 2017 -> 05:06 PM) Not sure where you got that list, but Im surprised that he would touch any California or Oregon ones. That is just setting himself up for a huge fight. It's accurate. I work at the National Parks Conservation Association.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 02:42 PM) Turns out the younger Conyers is carrying on the family tradition of how to treat women. http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/06/john-conyers...estic-violence/ File this under least surprising news of the day. That whole family's got some ridiculous skeletons.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 02:28 PM) My "problem" is he obviously wants to continue on and he says he is fully confident the Ethics Committee would have cleared him. He also in his only reference to his accusors was the fact he says he remembers the incidents differently but at the same time respects women enough that he needed to allow them to say what they felt happened did indeed happen. Well, my guess is there will be more Al Frankens having to resign. Trump obviously should resign as well just because of the Access Hollywood interview. If he really said he grabs women intentionally, etc., he should get the boot as well. Him saying it's just locker room talk is kind of weak. there will be many more resignations to come over these type incidents is my guess. But Franken did not want to quit. That's obvious. And if he was going to be cleared by the Ethics Committee as he felt, why not stay? He did say he wouldn't have time to do both his job and defend himself but I dont know about that. If he was going to resign he probably should have apologized at least. Of course if he admits guilt in any of these instances it could open him up to lawsuits. He resigned because Schumer convinced him it was better for the party, and the rest of his colleagues had turned against him. That's what politics is. It's a court of public opinion. Once you've lost it, it's hard to get it back.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 02:16 PM) There's an old saying in politics - don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. While it would be perfect if anyone who violated a woman wasn't just removed from office but instead actually faced charges, as of right now violating women still gets you elected President and Senator. As of right now we're back to having, for example, a Department of Education rolling back protections for women who bring assault cases to their universities. Things are going in the wrong direction in a number of ways. This is a case where it is going in the right direction. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. +1 times a thousand. So I guess +1,000.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 02:00 PM) Two takes on Franken after hearing his speech. a.) he didn't want to resign. Clearly he did not want to give up this job so he shouldn't have. He should have forced them to have a hearing, etc. Because again, he clearly didn't want to quit. b.) If he was going to quit, which he did, he should have not given such a ridiculous speech in which he takes no blame and merely pulls a Kathy Griffin by saying Trump and Moore are bad, too. Not a strong effort, Al. I wouldn't call his speech very classy. I do think the resignation was the right move for the party, but otherwise, for once, I think you're right. Twas a bad speech.

QUOTE (KagakuOtoko @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) If I understand correctly, Roy Moore is a creep not necessarily a criminal. Wat. Sexually assaulting 14 year olds is.... even a crime in Alabama.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 12:53 PM) This is exactly the case that needs to be made. He is maintaining he did nothing wrong but because of public pressure he is resigning. This is a cop out arrangement. If he is truly innocent, this is the wrong way to handle it. If he is guilty he should be prosecuted. With Moore they are truly going to let public opinion determine his fate With Fraken they basically did the same thing. The party didn't think he was going to be effective going forward so they forced him to resign. The GOP still thinks Moore can be effective so they let him go on. A lot of the GOP are terrified of what a Moore win means for them in the Senate and elsewhere going forward. He'll be one hell of an albatross.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 12:44 PM) I agree with all of this. Everyone should their chance to tell their story. however, it appears that once allegations are leveled there is pressure for them to resign without them being able to defend themselves. No doubt that many of them should resign if they are true and many seem to be admitting it. If this is the case the should be forced to resign and prosecuted. However, they should also be afforded the chance to defend themselves and shouldn't be forced to resign, if they deny the allegations and want to fight it. Again, it's a political decision mixed with a moral one. Franken remaining hurts Dems from a political perspective. Schumer explained that to Franken, and thus he's resigning. That's literally all there is to it. It's the right thing morally, and it's the right thing politically. The law has honestly nothing to do with it. Politics runs on the court of public opinion. Little else.

Franken's resignation is right. Moore's refusal to withdraw is wrong. Democrats doing the right thing is not wrong because the Republicans are doing the wrong thing. The right thing is the right thing because it's the right goddamned thing.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 12:06 PM) Keith Ellison should get his senate seat. Then we one step closer to President Keith Ellison. The seat is going to Minnesota Lt. Gov Tina Smith. A woman taking his seat is the right call.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) I think they have different motives, but Schumer should be held accountable for his support. Not sure he is as guilty as Trump, but that is a matter of perception. That being said I dont understand why you support a symbolic move like this. I dont know Schumer, but I have to imagine the ultimate endgame is for a unified Jerusalem under Israeli control. The only thing I can think from his perspective is that he thinks that if the Palestinians think that Trump is so anti-Muslim, that they will come to the table and take a deal where they get a state that doesnt include Jerusalem out of fear that if they dont they ultimately end up with nothing. Syria etc have shown that UN has no way of controlling any conflict if a security council member is against it. So US under Trump could basically end the idea of a separate Palestine and there is not much anyone could do about it. Schumer is historically incredibly pro-Israel and is from New York. That pretty much explains his perspective. I vehemently disagree with it, but I don't require my politicians to be perfect.

QUOTE (KagakuOtoko @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 02:09 PM) Reddy you get triggered so easily man but you easily set yourself up with abrasive comments. Franken always rubbed me the wrong way, so the holier than thou quip probably wasn't the right choice of words. I just remember that hearing they had for Devos were he was talking around her in circles trying to make her look bad instead of just coming at her with the facts. That just came across smug and arrogant. Why would he have been an ideal candidate for 2020? Because he's a democrat? Bud, facts don't matter. You of all people should understand that. And it takes an awful lot to "trigger" me hahaha. (Also related to our earlier exchange, I think that's such a silly phrase)

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 01:43 PM) ...that's not whataboutism though How do you figure? Taking one person's terrible position and going - yeah, but THIS person (who I have an agenda against) also supports it - is whataboutism.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 01:42 PM) This is not just on Trump. Chuck Schumer also supports this. And he's wrong. See how easy that is? People can be right about some things and wrong about others. What a concept. Jeff Flake: wrong on taxes, right on Roy Moore. Tired of whataboutism and it's my new crusade to call it out.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 01:37 PM) I just thought it was kinda funny because there really is no "far left" wing of the Democratic Party. I'm not interested in your semantics. Within the context of the American political system and the American Democratic Party, there are two factions - one that is more centrist and one that is further left. Stahp.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) Lmao. Hyperbole. I should have rephrased. Thanks for keeping me honest.

More anti-US terrorist attacks gives Trump more authority to crack down on immigrants and Muslims and seize more control. It's pretty transparent.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2017 -> 01:07 PM) OTOH the centrist wing has horrible policies leftists or even left-liberals are hilariously bad at politics though I'd rather accomplish *better* policies through good politics than have Trump because of bad politics. But yes, you're right.

Al Green being a fool and introducing articles of impeachment today in the House. Getting Dems on the record either for or against impeachment can only backfire and hurt Democrats. It's such terrible politics. The far-left wing of the party frustrates me so much. They have absolutely no concept for strategy or long game or the bigger picture.