Reddy

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ May 25, 2017 -> 03:46 PM) I think felons are worse than a guy committing misdemeanor assault. Where was your outrage when Markahm elected a felon as its mayor earlier this year? I literally don't know what Markahm is.

I assumed I didn't need to clarify that I was speaking about the modern era. Y'all are so frustrating.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2017 -> 02:25 PM) Northwest Indiana and Chicago do not. But thanks for proving my point. I grew up and live in a bi-racial town with a pretty even split between black and white, with a long history of racial tension and even riots. It is a former manufacturing and industrial town that now suffers from 50%+ poverty ratings covering both black and white people fairly extensively. I spent 15 years working in the city of Chicago, while not East Coast, working with people from all races, religions, tons of different nations and statuses. I have worked with a ton of kids over the years both through programs and personal relationships, and have seen what works and what does not. You can choose to listen to that experience, or the orations of people who fill your head with things like black people deal drugs because they have to, and white people don't deal drugs because they don't have to, and everyone else who fits into that bubble of like-thinkers you refer to for source information. I prefer to roll my sleeves up and actually support the younger generations in arming them with the tools to actually succeed in this world instead of looking for someone else to do it for them. To me this is more than an exercise in academia and cocktail party debates. These are real people to me. You can keep looking down on them and people like that, and that is fine. Most do. Thanks for what you do, in all seriousness. Even if I think your perspective is rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of how skin color makes it harder or easier to succeed in America, I appreciate that you're working to create positive change for people. In reality, I think the solution is a mix of what you do - personal empowerment - and the government reigning in the obstacles that stand in their way: supporting education, gun control, improved policing practices, removal of mandatory minimums, decriminalizing weed, etc. For the record, my sleeves are also fully rolled, even if you don't approve of my methods.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ May 25, 2017 -> 12:14 PM) You can be a felon and win office. You can be dead and win office. This story is not some benchmark that proves where we, as a country, are in our democracy. It's been f***ed up and broken for a LOOOOOONG time. I honestly think there's a significant difference between your examples and this. A violent felon? Has that happened? I don't recall an incident of a public official getting SUPPORT for attacking a journalist in the United States of America.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2017 -> 02:12 PM) Wait, so you are going to make assumptions about where I live, after being angry about assumptions being made? lol, OK. Yep. More of that old fashion hypocrisy. As long as we both admit we're being hypocritical I'm good with it. For the record, Indiana's diversity supports my point.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 25, 2017 -> 02:12 PM) Good god dude, you can't make a single point without being a pretentious douche. *coastal elitist.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2017 -> 11:33 AM) I am not the type of person to speak on this from my ivory tower on the subject. There is nothing of which you speak out there. There are people who have interpreted certain statistics in the way your preconceived notions buy into, and that is the extent of it. Understanding statistics and their proper usage is actually more important than the raw data. Stats can be made to say whatever you want them to say, and for some reason you want them to assuage your guilt. Maybe your guilt would be better served by getting to know the people who you look down on. Again with your assumptions. I could be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that I know, am friends with, and have worked with far more people from far more diverse walks of life than you have in glorious Indiana. I don't need to list my resume for you, because I don't think you care and I don't need your validation, but the hilarious irony here is that you continue to make massive assumptions about me while criticizing the "assumptions" you think I'm making about a particular group of people.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 25, 2017 -> 10:09 AM) Sure, but Swing Left and its ilk are legitimately visionary organizations that can make massive differences regardless of political ideology and party loyalty. It's something we can all agree on, whichever side of the party you find yourself on.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ May 25, 2017 -> 10:04 AM) Should be donating less to DNC and more to DSA. That's my opinion on the matter. Actually the best places for progressives to donate right now are Swing Left and flippable.org, IMO

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2017 -> 10:03 AM) I know Pence went up there to campaign...Trump recorded a robocall message. The spin is going to be that Gianforte had a 3-5 point lead and that all the rural mail in ballots from rural Gianforte voters were already sent in before this story broke...that it was too late to turn around an ad buy, and in fact the three main newspapers still have endorsements connected to ads running today for Gianforte. Have the feeling this will go to the Dems, but it will be very tight. Keep in mind Trump won there by a pretty significant margin, something like 20+ points. Otoh, nobody really likes Gianforte, he's actually the establishment Hillary of this race who already lost a bid for governor. At any rate, we'll see which model works better, the DCCC or Sanders/Ellison wing. http://www.omaha.com/news/politics/city-el...7182190462.html Sanders coming in probably backfired in Omaha, but nobody other than Obama or maybe Biden could have shifted that vote. Sanders may have helped in Montana. He would have hurt in GA6. It's not a "which works better" type question, it's knowing when to appeal to which wing of the party based on demographics and past voter behavior. The Trumpier the state, the more likely Bernie plays.

QUOTE (bmags @ May 25, 2017 -> 09:56 AM) The takeaway I have is that the worst thing Bernie sanders did was make his followers believe that the DNC and DCCC are powerful institutions. The same people donating to DNC/DCCC were donating privately to Quist through DailyKos or SwingLeft. The continued b.s. that they are the only ones doing anything just poisons the well. Parallel there between bernie sanders groups and the millionaire who believes they earned everything through sheer force and never had a helping hand. Agreed. I'm not a fan of Sanders himself, as the demagogue he is, but support the policies he advocates, have donated multiple times to Quist, AND I donate to the DNC, DCCC (though far less often than to candidates themselves).

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2017 -> 09:49 AM) The Dems that stand in the way of single payer are going to get run over...the lesson Of Obama's first election and Sanders is to get thousands of small donations instead of owing allegiance to Big Pharma and the insurance industry. Not everywhere! That's my point. It's not one size fits all. Ossoff would get crucified for a single payer stance in GA6.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2017 -> 01:17 AM) The Democrats virtually ignored Quist until late April. Asked about the Montana special election, Rep Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.), the DCCC’s 2016 national mobilization chair, told HuffPost last month he “didn’t know about that.” But as the race heated up, the party began spending more money, tripling its initial investment to $600,000 earlier this month. “It seems clear that Gianforte’s massive edge in early funding allowed him to attack Quist’s character viciously before there were sufficient funds for Quist to respond to the vitriol,” Jeff Hauser, a longtime Democratic operative and director of the Revolving Door Project, told HuffPost. “If Quist should lose, the national Democrats who provided financial assistance after mail-in voting had already begun will have to question anew their initial reluctance to engage in the race in March and early April.” Quist attracted the enthusiastic backing of progressive activists because of his unabashed liberal stances, including support for single-payer health insurance and legalizing marijuana. Winnie Wong, co-founder of the People for Bernie, an online group, credited Sanders followers forgetting involved in Quist’s campaign early and “corner[ing]” the Democratic Party into following suit. If Quist wins, Wong argued, “the overwhelming message that will resonate across the country is that Berniecrats can win in red states. That will send a message to the corporate wing of the Democratic Party to move left.” https://www.yahoo.com/news/montana-send-tru...-040042811.html Isn't it so nice, that the Bernie wing creates a win/win scenario for itself? Lose and it's the DCCCs fault and the party should move left. Win and it has nothing to do with the DCCCs contributions and proves the party should move left. The reality is that it's not a one size fits all situation. In some red states, Bernie-ism plays. In some, like Georgia, it absolutely does not.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 25, 2017 -> 01:05 AM) Kind of like your views on most black people selling drugs and your reading of easily understandable statistics (and awesomeness may I add) giving merit to the idea of white privilege. Fixed. Bro just stop. You look foolish. Move on with your life.

Unfortunately, I'm not confident this changes the result tomorrow. 65% of ballots have already been cast, and he may have had a good enough lead to survive. Also, the Sheriff is a supporter of Gianforte's campaign. I'd be surprised if he's arrested, as he absolutely SHOULD be.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 24, 2017 -> 09:06 PM) Here's the problem with statistics. Everyone can create their own, to make a point supporting their beliefs. In the hearing today, Mulvaney was asking for the Dems to quantify or prove that Meals On Wheels, for example...is effective. Do you measure it by lives saved? Well, how? If you're not receiving benefits from this program, how likely are you to starve to death or more likely, have a health-related problem attributable to malnutrition or poor diet? One of the Dem reps responded, well, how do you know that spending $64 billion or $640 billion more is going to "make the world safer," exactly how many nuclear submarines are "allocatively efficient" (versus dangerously low), carriers, F-35's, Stealth bombers, etc. His secondary point was that as much waste and fraud as exists in the entitlement programs (Mulvaney brought up 11,000 that were dead still getting checks, or that some states had rules that X number had to receive a certain benefit regardless of economic conditions)...the numbers are even more frightening in terms of waste in DOD. That they weren't even audit-ready and wouldn't be so until the fall. So how can you say that "pure competition/privatization" is always the solution (the argument for not subsidizing CPB, because Sesame Street is highly profitable...what he didn't mention was all the OTHER education programming that's part of PBS that parents rely upon)...well, if that's actually the case, they're going to have a heckuva time arguing privatizing or running DOD the way they have since the 1980's is leading to cost-efficient expenditures. Yes. Statistics can be manipulated and framed to fit a certain argument or perspective - absolutely. They're flawed. Throwing out statistics and relying solely on personal experience is also extremely flawed, and there's a reason the scientific method doesn't rely on one person's personal experience when establishing scientific consensus. Anyway. Let's let this die. He thinks I'm misusing statistics. I think he's biased based on his political leanings and the bubble of his personal experience. Neither one of us is changing our minds about that.

Tomorrow will test the oft-posed question: Can you literally assault a reporter and still get elected in 2017? I'm not optimistic it's a no. Wow.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2017 -> 05:50 PM) Except the statistics are just that, statistics. It is what they are being made into that is the problem. statistics... are just.... statistics.... conservativism in a nutshell: rely on personal small sample experience and deny the relevance of broad, large sample statistical analysis. unreal. I assume you're not a moneyball guy either, are ya SS? You must be an "eye-test" and "good face" kind of guy.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2017 -> 05:06 PM) You aren't relying on fact. You are relying on feeling and emotions and trying to make your stats fit it. This is why the goalposts of what you are talking about keeps changing in your "facts". And you're relying on extremely limited and biased personal experience, regardless of the statistical realities in this country. So there, let's just discount both of our opinions as meaningless, and let others draw the conclusions they wish to draw through their own research, should they feel compelled to do it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2017 -> 02:23 PM) I am not surprised you feel that way at all. I don't think you are at all cognizant of the way you think in terms of what is really happening. Even the completely false ideas as "examples" you used reflect what people who have no real experience with poverty view it from the outside. Of course you feel like you are benevolently crusading for the people you are trying to look out for. The reality is that what you are talking about is so far removed, it isn't helpful at all. It only serves to further the problems and obscure the solutions, ensuring that more people stay a slave to poverty. And I feel exactly the same way about you. Your opinion about the issue is so wrapped up in ignorance and a refusal to recognize that if you take a black person and white person with exactly the same qualifications, or having committed exactly the same crime, the white person will almost always get the job/loan/lesser sentence/etc. The white person will almost always win out over the black/minority person. That is borne out in statistic after statistic, which you can poo poo all you want because of your "personal experience", but personal experience means exactly jack s*** compared to statistical fact. You're succumbing to an N=1 fallacy and yet you cling to it and let it inform your every belief in life. That's what all conservatives do. I guess I can't blame you, but I don't respect your opinion for that reason.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2017 -> 11:07 AM) You are using simple statistics to try to say something that really isn't true. Misunderstanding a statistic to make a perceived social statement doesn't make it a fact. As I said, if it were a fact, you would be able to prove it by showing that affluent blacks are raising poor children at a higher rate than other races are. If it were truly a racial problem, you should be able to remove things like generational wealth and educational achievement and still see the same issue. Can you prove that? I don't believe you can. And yes, when people like you consistently send the message that you need to deal drugs to make money, it has an effect on young minds. When you constantly send the message that you are black so you won't succeed because you aren't white like me, it has an effect on young minds. When you have parents who were raised to believe the messages that you are preaching here about not succeeding because of race and the like, it has an effect on young minds. The only barrier between people like you and the child's success is an educational system that has to attempt to unbrainwash them into believing that their one true ticket out is education. And really that goes for anyone. Let's not pretend that generationally poor white areas of the country see some huge success rate that generationally poor black families don't. Again. I can't even engage with you on this because your assumptions and your firmly held beliefs about me, how I fight, where I stand, and my experience with the groups we're talking about is so wildly off base, that nothing I say will change your mind. You feel the way you do about me, and there's absolutely nothing I can do to change that, so I won't waste my time. But you are fundamentally incorrect about every damn thing you think you've gleaned from this discussion.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ May 24, 2017 -> 10:01 AM) Which is exactly what you do. You feel so much white guilt you wrongly assume that ALL minorities are in stereotypical positions of being poor, being in single parent families, having to deal drugs, etc. because of the White Man. Just own up to it. You wrote it. No one is inferring what you meant. We're basing it on the plain meaning of the words you used. It was an ignorant thing to say and it shows that your extreme view here about racism is based on some pretty ignorant assumptions. I've said that exactly zero times, and I've said that I DON'T believe that at least four times by now. You're going full Hannity on this. It's pathetic.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 23, 2017 -> 01:44 PM) If you want to take the easy way out, sure stay in your bubble. But it would be nice if you actually weren't disenfranchising the people you pretend so hard to care about, but have heard so much about from your other like minded friends. We reward one thing in this country above all else, and it is not race. Stating statistical fact is not disenfranchising anyone. It's raising awareness so maybe people like you can wake up to your ignorance. Are you seriously suggesting I pretend those facts aren't real, because by doing so it'll protect the feelings of our marginalized communities? Isn't THAT showing even less respect for them? You think they can't handle the reality of their situation? You think they don't have the mental fortitude to see that reality and overcome it? You think we should pull the wool over their eyes, and people like me shouldn't talk about the issue, because doing so "disenfranchises" them? Really? The irony.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2017 -> 08:08 AM) You seem to be the only one who doesn't see it. People see the thing they want to in order to make it fit their narrative.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 23, 2017 -> 09:00 PM) Reddy cried about personal attacks you must have missed it. But yeah go ahead and praise him for thinking black people are mostly drug dealers who need governmental help to accomplish things and that his whiteness is why he is/was so awesome at everything (his account). Brother you ran away once others started criticizing your stance and you could no longer defend it. Please. On another note, I just got out of my Political Communications class, and we talked about "if you're explaining, you're losing." I gotta start framing my arguments in a way that I don't need to do damage control after the fact. So thanks y'all!