Soxbadger

QUOTE (New Era on South Side @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 07:56 AM) He said he was going to be a president for all Americans - I haven't seen how he's been one for me or people that I know yet. My question was reasonable - right now, they don't fit into his universe. Here's the Goff and Bernstein clip I talked about. Start listening at the 1:55 mark, where they get to talking about Steve Kerr's comments and an escalated caller comes in. What's important is that we can have discussions of civility, respect and tolerance - something I haven't seen done in every day life recently. I agree. At the end of the day a lot of reasonable moderates and Republicans are getting lumped with the Trump Train. These are people who will play a large role in how our country moves forward. 2 years from now they are going to be the people that could make a change. Trump made promises about jobs, about the economy etc, and some voters saw the "good" in those ideas and didnt necessarily believe all of the potential "bad" about Trump. Its only been approximately 2 weeks, but as of now, Trump has been focusing on the ideas that, I believe, most moderates consider "bad", while a the same time completely ignoring other issues that seemed "good". And I truly believe this is where his inexperience and lack of understanding the system come into play. The election was a battle, he came out on top, but he should have started with some sort of conciliatory position to blunt the opposition. Then over time you slowly drop the sledgehammer.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 07:18 AM) This is where people have zero idea of history. Your mention of the "refusal to assimilate" couldn't be more normal in terms of history. Heck go all of the way back to colonial times. Religious groups struck out on their own. Ever heard of the Pligrims? How about the Quakers? The Amish? The Mormons too. Ethnic groups were no different. Indians, Africans, Irish, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, Germans, over time were some of the more prominent targets. Typically these groups came here in search of something new, and met with resistance because they didn't speak English and their customs offended the people who were already assimilated. The first generations usually didn't try to blend. They stayed in their ethnic neighborhoods, spoke the old language, kept the old customs, and never really became "American's" Many even turned to crime to make their way as traditional ways were closed to these groups. Whether it was the "Irish Need Not Apply" or the redlining of entire cities to keep the undesirables in their own places such as Chinatown and Little Italy, it has been done over our whole history. But every, single, time an amazing thing happened. The second generation started to leave that behind. They spoke English outside of the house, and spoke the native tongue in it. They picked up American customs, and turned to education as their way out of the neighborhoods. By the third generations it might only be a last name that would sell out an ethnic background. By the 4th and 5th generations, the ethnic identities faded to the point they were really of the old world anymore, they were Americans first, and something else later. The incredible part of that is that it was all voluntary. It wasn't like Soviet Russia where assimilation was forced, or Nazi Germany where the undesirables were just disposed of. People became Americans because they wanted to be Americans. The greatness of America has always been that people, no matter where they came from, always turned into Americans in a matter of a couple of generations. Pretty much unless we put the boot of discrimination on their necks, the transition has been seamless. With the banning of Muslims of certain countries coming to the United States, nothing has really changed. These elements have always held power in the United States, and they have always hid under the veil of trying to save us from the latest group we should be scared of. At times, they got enough power to make lives miserable for their targets. We banned the Chinese from immigrating at times. We rounded up the Japanese and put them into interment camps. We tried to send the Africans back to Africa. Despite all of this, these groups have still turned into Americans over time. I am here today to tell you that using history as my guide, Muslims won't be any different. Give America a couple of generations with these immigrants, and while you might have a few bad apples, they will be fat and lazy Americans in two generations. To me that is the ultimate victory. Our culture and society is so incredible that it wins out, and it wins out voluntarily. If we ever get to the point where this history stops, THAT is when we quit being great. You want proof? My hometown is FULL of Syrian refugees and immigrants that haven't blown up any buildings. They haven't used a single suicide vest. Guess what, they have been coming here for over a century just for the opportunity to work. So while some want to live in fear of the latest boogeyman group, history tells me that fear is wasted. Quit being scared of immigrants. Don't live your life in fear. The ultimate in living scared is trying to hide from other cultures. You want to make American great? Learn from your history instead of being scared and wrong. Great post! Glad I waited to respond because I probably wouldnt have been half as diplomatic as you.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 11:13 PM) What the hell do you need him to do for you?? Hoping that was supposed to be green... How does attacking his point of view further your cause? I think his question is perfectly reasonable, how do moderates fit into Trump's universe? And that is really a group who can make a difference.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 09:25 PM) Here's where you're kind of wrong/kind of right. Somali refugees in Minneapolis/St Paul have had some serious difficulties assimilating and there was an attack by a Somali on a mall that was "claimed" by ISIS. About thirty Somalis from Minnesota, permanent residents the lot, left the country to join ISIS or similar organizations back in Somalia, and that's just who the intelligence community knows about or is willing admit. Then there have been the serious gang problems and sexual assaults, very similar to the issues the European countries are having assimilating their immigrants. How much of this has to do with willful refusal to assimilate by the Somalis or ghettoizing by native Minnesotans is impossible to pin down exactly, but its probably a little bit of both at least. To paint all refugees as angels is a delusional. To paint them all as terrorists is ignorant. But to deny that there is something about Islam that seems to prevent it from fully assimilating its people in western countries is just a blatant refusal to acknowledge facts. All of Western Europe is a case study in this regard, and its one I want our leaders to learn and understand before they act on the refugee issue. We have enough social unrest as it is, inviting more in isn't good for the people already here. Libya is on the list already. And you can trace "lots of terrorism and its principal funding" to Lebanon? Uhhh...that'd be news to me. Hezbollah isnt a terror group, really. I mean Israel says they are and our government has a tradition of agreeing with them on those types of things, but that's a quasi-government representing Shia Muslims in that region. Lebanon is an extremely complicated country. You'd think the hubris would've been gone after Brexit and the November elections...guess not. We have enough social unrest as it is, inviting more in isn't good for the people already here. Unless you are a native american or a descendant of the Mayflower, this is exactly what they said about your family. Our country was founded by those fleeing persecution. We are a country of "refugees", people that other countries discarded. And this line of reasoning is exactly what people were saying prior to WWII when it came to the Jews. The United States actually lowered the the quotas for Jews prior to WWII, meaning that less Jews were allowed to immigrate here. You have a lot of far reaching conclusions that arent necessarily supported by facts. The idea that Muslim's arent fully assimilating, compared to what? Why should they even need to assimilate? This is a country of freedom, not a country of assimilation. If they want to have their own beliefs, their own community, how does that impact me? How does that make me less safe? There are hundreds, if not thousands of ways that you could legitimately make the United States safer than banning refugees. This isnt a blatant disregard of the facts, its a rejection of your entire premises, that somehow denying refugees will make the US safer. Since when the Refugee Act of 1980 was passed not 1 refugee has been implicated in a terror attack. Before 1980 only 3 successful attacks had ever been carried out, all by Cubans, and 3 people died. I am not afraid, I have no reason to be. Facts do not support that refugees pose a legitimate security risk to the regular American. Hezbollah isnt a terror group There are bunch of others, but you would be hard pressed to find any other terrorist organization who has killed as many Americans. Either way, America isnt as great of a place without refugees and immigrants, that is a fact that is undeniable.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 04:03 PM) What do people think of this whole "holocaust" controversy? I actually side with Trump on this. He didn't single out any group, but I didn't think there was anything horrible or malicious around his use of words. This is what I think is dangerous about how Trump's detractor's are taking things. If you complain about every little thing, including things, like this, which I generally believe to be small (of course I'd like to think I'm rationale and could be delusional instead) then you start to get people who maybe aren't as logical / rational who look at the media and say, if they are going to complain about every little thing, then it is the old "boy who cried" wolf and you basically are just hammering a person and people stop believing everything (which is the wrong answer). Its strange. I dont think Trump is anti semitic, his daughter is a Jew, his son in law is a Jew, his grandchildren are Jews. That being said, he seems to be surrounded by people who may be. I think a lot of the concern is that Trump just doesnt understand the people he aligned with to become President.

QUOTE (brett05 @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 02:17 PM) bottom line is gerrymandering is how moth sides stay in power. It's bad for America. Yep, not sure what the best way to fix it is though.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 01:38 PM) This kind of contempt for people who have the audacity to disagree with you is assurance that they will never vote for your candidates. And if they never vote for your candidates electoral math basically guarantees that Donald Trump will win a 2nd term and maintain unprecedented control over congress for the next eight years. If that is what you want by all means, keep this up. What contempt? Everyone in America has the right to choose who they want to vote for, even if that vote will be against their self interest. I dont care if they agree, disagree, whatever. Its not my job to woo people, I am not a politician, I am not a representative for any party. If someone doesnt want to recognize that the global economy has changed, and that you simply cant afford to pay laborers $20 per hour and compete with labor at $3 hour, there is no amount of "nicities" that are going to change their opinion. The beginning of your statement was pretty insulting, and I responded in kind. Sorry that I didnt use my kid gloves with an offer of cake and pie, but those days are gone. And its not the audacity to disagree with "me", its the audacity to disagree with the one area where Republican's historically had agreed with me. Republican's were for free trade. If they want to chase voters with mythical promises of "jobs" through tariffs and protectionism, thats their choice. Id rather be honest and not promise I will plant a money tree in your backyard.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 01:19 PM) Democrats are going to be too busy telling each other how great they are and taking selfies at protests to bother asking people in the rust belt for their votes. They're gonna get rolled again and ask themselves how on earth it could have happened. "Trump was so evil, didn't you see us on TV and social media telling you so?" There was a moment of clarity for about 48 hours after the result of the election dropped where everyone seemed to understand that the identity politics and political correctness of the left alienated the traditional bedrock of their party. Now were back at it again, having a level 10 freakout over Trump resurrecting Obama's old policies. Protesting on the streets of cities like Seattle, the poster child for "I like people who aren't white to be on my TV, not in my neighborhood", accomplishes nothing. In a way it helps Trump, because nothing grinds the gears of the working poor more than bougie liberals LARPing as activists while ignoring issues that have been brooding in the belly of this country since the 70's. Im not going to "ask" anyone to vote. I am simply going to watch as Trump's economic policies decimate the rust belt. If they want higher priced goods and less jobs, thats on them. There is simply nothing that can be done to convince certain people that "they took our jobs" is a myth. I guess I could show them the South Park episode, but theyd probably just say "We're sorry, back in the pile." Unless someone is inventing a time machine, the rust belt just cannot efficiently compete with overseas producers. And really, we have no one to blame but those damn Americans and their cheap labor. If not for those bastards undercutting England, England would still be the number 1 manufacturing country in the world. AKA WE TOOK THEIR JOBS.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 12:42 PM) You know you done f***ed up if the Koch Brothers are against a policy set forth by a Republican president. Our wealth is closer to Trump's than his wealth is to theirs. To them he is just a poor guy.

QUOTE (G&T @ Jan 29, 2017 -> 12:35 PM) That first tweet you linked is deleted so I'm guessing that didn't happen. More importantly, I don't think the injunction prevented enforcement of the EO entirely. It prevents deportation of legitimate visa holders since they could be going back to countries where they face imminent harm. Someone can correct me. G&T, I believe the second part of your statement is correct. I havent read it entirely, but it appears that it is a limited stay. Likely any lawsuit in this matter is going to be limited to those already granted some sort of recognition or those already in the US.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 29, 2017 -> 08:25 AM) Not sure if this refers to me, as I've voted more R's than D's over the years, but... pretty sure you and I are friends on FB, and you are welcome to see what I said there in the past few days. This whole thing is abjectly disgusting. Glad a court put a stay on part of it, and hopefully we can slam the rest of it right back up Bannon's ass next week. I am seeing quite a few Republican politicians put words against it. What should happen though, is they legislate it away - something they absolutely have the power to do, if they choose to. NSS, I cant speak for Balta, but I know you are not one of them. You actually have your own ideas, you dont just fight for the name on the jersey, even when your jersey is doing everything you allegedly stood against. *Cough* Today's current Republicans on free trade, immigration, smaller govt, fiscal responsibility *Cough* QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Jan 29, 2017 -> 12:02 PM) If any good comes out of Trump, hopefully it's politicians standing up for what they think is right, regardless of party politics. I think the idea that all Republicans believe ABC and all Democrats believe XYZ is ridiculous. It's possible for a Democrat to be fiscally conservative or for a Republican to be in favor of "Obamacare." They're just afraid to say it. What we have now is politicians who vote everything according to the party line. Often, that's not best for the people they serve. And they are supposed to be voting with the best interests of their constituents in mind. Trump is a disaster, but maybe he's doing all a favor by getting people interested and involved in politics. It should be. But as weve seen over the last few months, Republican's stand for nothing but the name on the jersey. You dont even hear about responsible spending, smaller federal govt, free trade, less immigration restriction. They are now the party of big spending, big government and denying rights.

Balta, Republican's are Soviets. They have more in common with Stalin than Reagan. Mr. Gorbachev, BUILD THAT WALL!!!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 28, 2017 -> 11:18 PM) I hate this fight. We won this decades ago. Americans decided to be better than this. Then the Republican Party decided they weren't. And I'm still waiting for them to say that this isn't them. Remember that whole "Muslims don't deserve the right to religion if it's in lower Manhattan" gag from the 2010 election? Congrats Republicans. Stand up! Tell us how religious freedom is only fine as long as you are a certain religion. Here's what you stood up for over YEARS. Where are the comments to support this? They're ISLALMIC. Sure my friend models Moon formation, but HE MIGHT BE EVIL HE'S FROM AN EVIL RELIGION LOOK AT HIS NON WHITE FACE. Tell me why he should be blocked from this country. I'm waiting. If he went to NEW YORK he'd be EVIL. I don't want this fight. We shouldn't be fighting that certain religions or facial features are worse than others. I shouldn't be sitting here wondering why "Congress should be making laws prohibiting certain religions" is a thing. We figured out this before we figured out slavery. But it is. I can debate whether or not Americans should provide health insurance for the lowest 10% of its income brackets. I can debate 20% versus 27% federal tax rates. I can debate corporate tax reform. I do not love any fight over whether or not Americans should jail people because they come from the wrong county. I do not love any fight over whether or not we are letting the wrong people into this country because of their birth. This is a fight WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER REACHED AND YOU ALLOWED IT FOR YEARS. I wish it never came to this. In a perfect world every person in the US would realize that they were once the "other" the person that someone else kept out. And that they would understand we are only here because someone else fought for "others". But if we have to fight, I will fight. And I will remember, I will remember every person who ever said they supported the Republican party, every person who was silent. And most likely, I will end up banned from this site, because the kid gloves are off and I will be everywhere. No more sympathy when they whine.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jan 28, 2017 -> 10:21 PM) Once again...PLEASE someone defend all this. No one will. They will remain silent. Just like when they are asked about how can they be against free trade. They will just bring up some random topic or they will remain silent. They arent fighters, they are cowards.

QUOTE (New Era on South Side @ Jan 28, 2017 -> 09:55 PM) How can the average American man help the legal system? Donate to the ACLU? Pay legal fees for immigrants? Just curious. Donate if you want, but at minimum just be heard.

Im not an immigration attorney, but if anyone knows someone or is affected by this, feel free to pm me. I will not charge anything and I will provide any advice assistance I can. To those of you who I used to have respect for, who always told me that they were libertarians, whatever, who said that they shouldnt be lumped in. Now is the time to be heard. For those who dont have other Americans backs, I am taking names and I will hold you accountable.

If anyone is up for some discourse on immigration, here is an article about how the war on illegal immigrants is potentially leaving billions of revenue on the table for the US govt https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/1738312a-eec1-...%3A-forget.html Im pretty sure some people on here self identify as libertarian, so I think that this issue, coupled with the Republican parties denouncement of free trade, would provide some interesting discourse.

QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 08:43 PM) The guy is totally off the rails. He's pissing and moaning about how the size of his inauguration crowd is being presented. He wants to investigate voter fraud, AND HE WON! When does this ever happen!? Sometimes you just have to laugh. I mean there is just so much hilarity in https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix...m=.61131fd214ba When his son in law, Jared Kushner, was registered to vote in NY and NJ. That being said, I am actually trying to think of any event where someone who won, wanted to launch an investigation to prove that they won by more. I know I know, there should be more "discourse" about this. Because Trump was so respectful of Obama, and we obviously should give him the same respect.

Turns out Trump's investigation into voters registered in 2 states is coming up comedy gold: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-po...m=.692789a59afd So all Trump had to do was look into his own family and cabinet. So far Tiffany Trump, Jared Kushner, plus Mnuchin and Spicer may all have been registered in multiple states. For the record, being registered in 2 states is not illegal, but there is something hilarious about Trump's phrasing and the people who are allegedly registered in 2 states.

QUOTE (New Era on South Side @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 05:04 PM) If I wanted to move to Mike Madigan's precinct and run against him, how long would I have to live there? Do people in his precinct actually think he's doing a good job and vote him in or is there poor turnout? If you really want to win, pick somewhere that does not have an incumbent. Trying to beat Madigan would be a really tough task, he likely has a huge war chest.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 04:03 PM) Autos will be a huge one as well. The problem with trade wars is prices go up for everyone, unless the govt subsidizes. There is simply no way, given our current laws, that a product made in the US can be cheaper than a product made in Mexico, China, etc. The only way to do it would be to lower wages significantly below the current minimum wage. (edit cause sentence made no sense)

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 03:09 PM) Why can't Dems just accept Hillary was a less than stellar candidate, she did a poor job picking key battleground areas and there was a huge movement that she (and others) didn't account for? Some can. And even if some disagree, there were 2 months to get your b****ing/moaning/etc about the election out of the way. The day Trump stepped into office the focus should be on what is going on now, what is going to happen in the future. All of this Hillary junk is providing cover for Trump, because instead of focusing on issues like what are the ramifications of a Mexico US trade war, we are busy arguing about something that none of us can change. Mexico US trade war, we can do something about, we can maybe fix. Hillary beating Trump, we need a time machine or fringe science. (edit) Reddy, Hillary also wasted a lot of her money on her tv ads. This is anecdotal, but almost every Hillary ad I saw had something like "Trump said this" or "Trump will do that", some of them even had Trump speaking. I dont really recall 1 ad where it was Hillary talking or just about why Hillary was great. She completely missed the mark. But again, this its the past.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 02:31 PM) What? https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/824712911511756805 NEWS: @PressSec tells pool that Trump intends to pay for wall by imposing a 20 percent tax on all imports from Mexico. So now we are paying for it? I have been posting about why tariffs/trade barriers hurt the US for months now, but unfortunately not much "discourse" on the subject.

I dont even know what the point of these conversations are. Clinton lost, Trump won. We could argue all day long why Clinton's campaign failed, I have my own opinions, but none of them are really going to be relevant to the next election cycle, because Clinton wont be the candidate. Obama is the past. I dont even understand why we are comparing Obama to Trump, unless we are comparing what Obama and Trump did in the first week of their Presidency. All of this is just obscures the real issues, it detracts from actual things that matter, and if you dislike Trump's agenda (whether you are Republican or Democrat) arguing about this stuff is playing right into what they want. Yesterday I had a brief moment of hope when I saw some progress (of all places yahoo comments) where it seemed both party supporters had some sort of agreement on torture. Now that moment quickly washed away when I went to CNN and saw comments that just kept referring to it as a fake news site and Clinton News Network, but I digress. Eventually there is just no point in re-litigating the past, especially if you were on the losing side.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 01:01 PM) I am going to get back to work after this and don't take it personal but I have to defend myself after I just took all your s*** the other day. It's amazing you guys were taking shots at my credibility the other day and follow that up with some of the stuff you have. Steve saying a Republican president might get impeached with a republican house and senate in place after what? five days in office? Soxbadger saying Trump, the holder of the most powerful position in the world and a billionaire, is "never going to make it" in this world? He can't "make it" any more! I mean c'mon. Trump's a total goofball and I don't like him either but you guys just group attack any counterpoint to the "world is ending" echo chamber the filibuster has become. IE, don't let your hatred for Trump delude you from reason and acceptable discourse. Rabbit, If you are going to quote me, do me the courtesy of actually quoting. I believe that the comment was about the "real world." I have tried to find the original post to give it context, but it is taking too long. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/201...mp-have-indexed Trump has never lived a day in "real world". Trump inherited millions of dollars that his father made. Some economists believe that if Trump had simply "invested" the money his father gave him, he would be worth more money than he is today. Some have said that Trump only got into Wharton as a favor. http://www.thedp.com/article/2015/08/donal...rton-classmates This is not the life of someone in the real world. And of all people, I thought you, someone who has made posts about "trust" funds and who has commented on the "fairness" of affirmative action, would understand why starting life with millions of dollars and being given personal favors is not the "real world." But maybe it is, I dont really know, and I dont know why my personal opinion of whether Trump has done good/bad with the fortune that was given to is material to whether Trump is a good president. But hey, if you think that someone who inherits millions and gets special favors/access has it as hard as you, I am cool with that. (edit) And I dont think expressing my opinion clouds my ability to have reasonable discourse. I have brought up tens if not hundreds of reasonable discussions, just no one wants to have them. They would rather spend 10 pages arguing about what does "win" or "lose" mean. They want to argue about whether an article about "foreign aid" applies to the us. Pick a topic to have a reasonable discourse on and Ill gladly discourse all day long. But Id say 90% of the time I bring up things like "Free trade", "Immigration", "balancing the budget", "fiscal responsibility"those posts go completed ignored/unanswered. It takes two to have discourse, and Im still waiting.