Soxbadger

Its time to chill on the insider attack stuff. They took their lumps, we move on. I personally see Harper as 0%, but id glaldy be wrong.

Ultimately the fact that there were 2 options was a gift and a curse. It was a gift because it conceivably increased your chances of getting 1. It was a curse because the ego of the players/agents became a thing. I dont know what Boras would have done. I know he wants Harper to get more. If Sox are at 10/350mil to Harper, and they know Manny will take 10/300. Does Boras blink if the Sox tell him, we sign Machado tomorrow if you dont agree? I really dont know. But the main issue is, that it appears the Sox never were really driving the negotiation. They seem to have wanted to counter punch. There is nothing wrong with that, and many times its a good strategy. But its not how I would have played it, if what you are saying is true.

Shack, No need to apologize. Irrespective of the outcome, I still would have your back in the future. I am more just trying to point out what some people's comments have made others feel like. I really dont think I am the only one, and again Im not really sure why it became a thing but this offseason there was just a different vibe. I have speculated the rise of twitter/facebook/etc has lead to this. Maybe its the "like" function on the board. Who knows. If people want to share what their told, feel free. But this whole idea of who is worthy, etc just doesnt feel right on this board. As for the last part. If that is true, then really no one knows anything about the their intention. No insider, no reporter, no one. To me it seems backwards to go after Machado first, if you think Harper is more valuable. I would think you push the limit on Harper, and then if it goes beyond, you circle back to Machado. Anything is possible, and obviously I would be happy if the Sox get Harper.

Yep fuck the board. Ive been on this board for 2 decades (I hilariously said 1 decade earlier because I actually forgot how long ive been here.) In 20 years, Ive never asked 1 person for information. Ive never whined, craved or wanted anything from any insider. All I have ever wanted is for place to talk about the White Sox with people who have good ideas. Maybe its cool for like 1 minute to find out the Sox got a guy before the rest of the world, but the only reason it was cool at all, was because we had this place to discuss. If the Sox got Machado, this is where I would have celebrated. As sad as it may be, when the Sox were in the World Series in 2005, this was place I was posting. I wasnt out with some fair weather fans at a bar, I was here posting with the people who made that moment. So fuck this board. Fuck them all because we had a group of people telling all of us nobody peons that they knew more about this situation. Fuck us nobody regular joes who dont deserve the information. What is tiresome is the "insider" class that began to take shape this off-season. And I dont expect that this post will endear me to any insiders, and Im sure that means I wont be on the cool kids pm list or whatever. Shack, I just think that the way that the information was presented to us regular people who are undeserving, is that the Sox were making it clear they were going to get this done. Given that a month ago I was speculating figures of 8/282 and saying that 10/300mil was actually a better deal for the Sox, it is disheartening that the Sox didnt make those deals given how optimistic all of these insiders were. As Im sure you are aware, in multiple threads I said you would not say something unless you believed it to be true. But what I am saying is that now looking back, it seems that he information insiders were being given wasnt that great.

Were back to maybe the Sox can get a $1 for .50. Thats exactly how they lost Machado.

Its impossible to back and see what exactly people said. But Machado signed for $300mil. Over a month ago I was saying it likely would take a Sox offer of 8 years $282. 10 years $300mil is actually a better deal for the Sox. None of the insiders were expressing concerns that number was to high. Everyone was saying how optimistic etc. I just dont understand how you can be optimistic if you know the Sox arent willing to go 10 years $300mil? Ultimately I would have to see the information people were given. But my no sauces guess is that it was just general puffery from the Sox about their chances. Which really is no inside information at all.

My concern from the beginning was that the Sox were out of their depth in this negotiation and it is becoming apparent that is possibly what lost them Machado. The problem I have with all of the alleged "inside" information, was that even if people were getting it directly from Hahn, he really had no idea what was going on. Based on the confidence of certain insiders, I would have thought the word on the street was "Sox will top any offer", that clearly was not the case. So Im not sure why people were so confident about what was going on.

You dont trade for Yonder and sign Jay if that is true. And 30 mil per year for Machado is likely cheaper than what Harper wants.

All allegedly known facts go against sox signing harper. 1) Machado allegedly Sox #1 target 2) Sox not willing to offer 10 years 300mil. 3) Harper has allegedly turned down a more lucrative offer than that. So now im supposed to believe that the sox are going to pay more money for their 2nd choice when they could have just signed their first choice? That makes 0 sense. But i guess that is the reason it may happen. Its illogical, so therefore its the White Sox way. Ive been here a decade, im a pretty positive person. But if i was betting greg's house, id bet against the Sox getting Harper.

They misplayed their hand.

So im supposed to believe that the Sox missed on their first choice Machado over a trivial difference in contracts, are now going to outbid another team for their second choice? Anything can happen, but time to be reasonable.

JR may have been. Think of it like old cartoons, Angel on one shoulder, devil on the other. You got KW saying "spend". Youve got Hahn saying "lets offer a sneaky contract that limits our liability 9 years from now."

My no sauces take is that KW was being aggressive and telling them to offer more money. Hahn was trying to show everyone he is a wunderkind negotiator.

The Sox just missed on Machado due to penny pinching. Irrespective of whether you believe insides, the media, whatever, it is extremely unlikely the Sox are now going to break the bank for Harper. You dont need sauces to predict this future.

This would be the ultimate JR move. Block Cuban as a competitor, and then sell to Cuban because he is the highest bidder...

Fozzie and Animal are game changers. Animal was the only one to take the band seriously and because of his dedication he got an offer from Electric Mayhem.

The only explanation is that they really thought their offer was better. Because from an outside perspective, im not sure why you couldnt convince JR that 10/300 is actually a better deal for the Sox if structured properly. And I am mad that they lost. Because I really believe that if they had been this aggressive in early January that maybe Machado takes the deal they offered. Its the exact reason why for over a month I kept saying that you dont do this in a negotiation.

Because they dont know what they are doing. The difference between the Padre deal and the Sox deal isnt so great that you dont match as the Sox. I personally think Machado picks the Sox over Padres if the offers are the same. Its just a huge loss for them, and Im not sure that they even understand how bad it is.

They believe they checked the boxes. 1) Total value over $300mil (CHECK) 2) 10 year deal (CHECK) The problem was that the Sox wanted a way to keep those numbers lower (just in case).

Now what? Trade all veterans before free agent deadline. Get another top 5 pick. Continue rebuild.

Look all my no sauces are confident that the Sox are not going to get Harper. I am extremely confident signing Harpper will not happen. Because of my extreme no confidence, it obviously will happen. If only it worked that way.

Dude JR is crestfallen he couldnt spend other people's money to get a premier talent in their prime. He now is going to just have to be satisfied with making millions of dollars. HOW WILL HE SURVIVE?

Hard to be good at negotiating $300mil deals when youve never negotiated a $100mil deal.

Especially if youre willing to go 8/250 and potentially 10/325. Not to mention the money they spent on his friends. Im not sure if it was ego, they got too cute or they were just in over their heads. Maybe all 3.

Sox are going to offer 8 years 250 with 2 years that vest for $150mil if Harper has 1,000 abs his final season, so a 10 year $400mil contract. They will then say their offer was the best offer and be shocked he didnt accept it.