Soxbadger

Hopefully the Sox arent just trading on past stats, but instead on future potential. I mean Gavin Floyd "sucked" but hes done allright. Matt "sucked" but with a little work turned it around. Loaiza, Contreras, etc. etc. You can work with some one who has dominant stuff.

Hudson reminds me of B-Mac. A guy that was beloved by this board, but who I never was a fan of. I could be very wrong, but Hudson just was meh to me. Ive always loved Jackson's stuff, its just a matter of whether or not he can harness it. Almost every time id take the guy with more dominant stuff. The 8mil is the only reason we are getting Jackson this cheap.

I think that the market for Jackson is better than the market for Hudson. KW basically had to give Hudson away, so I think he can do better.

Next year the Sox could trade Jackson. Hes still young and has talent. That is why im not so concerned about the impact of the salary next year.

Not only that, but most believed that the Nats preferred Jackson and his salary to Hudson. What does that say about Hudson? Why do multiple teams prefer overpaid Action Jackson to him? There must be a reason and its not just that every GM is stupid.

Jackson's salary made him cheaper on the trade market, just like Peavy (and Rios although he was a waiver). So when they traded for Jackson, they were getting him cheap in terms of prospects because of the fact that his play did not match his salary. The Sox want to make noise this year. They are not a team where people show up to games when they are middling. No one showed up the first half of the season, it was sad. The Sox need to make the playoffs so that they can continue to draw fans. If the Sox had 8mil to spend and Hudson and this is all they can get, it should say how much Hudson was worth. (Edit) The White Sox almost always get some sort of cash back in a trade for a salary this high. There are some outliers, but the Sox have generally paid more in spects to get more money back.

The Sox usually dont take on this much salary. They must feel that Jackson is a huge improvement over Hudson. The 8mil being irrelevant is in terms of valuing the trade for this year. In the overall scope the money matters, but when you are looking at the trade exclusively for this season, the money for next year isnt relevant.

What they are thinking is simple: They tried to trade Hudson for the best impact player they could get. The only guy they could get was Jackson. When you look at the Sox right now (without Peavy) there staff is good, but it has big question marks at 4/5. Jackson should hopefully be a serviceable and reliable 4th starter. That means Freddy can move to 5. If no one else wanted Hudson, and the White Sox wanted to improve, they had to get whoever they could. What should be absolutely clear is that no one in the Sox organization felt that Hudson was even close to as good as Jackson. They see Hudson every day, and they still thought that the risk of Jackson + 8mil was worth more than Hudson. Doesnt all of this suggest Hudson just might not be that good.

And it should be clear that on todays market, Jackson at 8mil was worth more than Hudson. KW isnt going out and doing other teams favors. This was all he could get for Hudson. Id rather have Jackson out there every 5 days than Hudson this season.

Kalapse, When 90% of the posters are condescending towards me, I cant help myself. If people want to imply that I dont understand f***ing salary, the most simple thing in baseball, then Im going to give it back in spades. If people want to believe that Hudson is better than Jackson, thats one thing. But to suggest that some how the Sox dont understand the potential consequences of adding more pitching salary to a team in need of hitting, is just mind boggling. At least give the Sox management some credit, that maybe they know a little bit what they are doing. Thats all I ask from posters, juts give them a shred of credit. You dont have to agree, but KW has been responsible for more success than any other GM in my life. He at least deserves some deference in his decision making.

You can say whatever you want, but id rather the Sox try and win this year, then worry about the salary situation next year. Who the hell knows what will happen, if you have one of the hottest teams in baseball, you try and win with it. You dont pass on a player you think will improve your team because: "Well the other guy is cheaper and maybe 3 years from now hell be our 4th starter" Ill let next year play out when its next year. For all we know Jackson comes to the Sox, dominates and then they flip him for a deal 10x better than Hudson. It cant rain all the time.

Wharris, Dont you know Brandon Allen was Ruth and Hudson was Cy Young. We gave away everything for nothing! DAMN THEM! (haha) Anyways for all the love Hudson is getting, people seem to forget that Jackson was basically untouchable in the Dodger farm system and was considered one of the top future pitchers in all of baseball not to long ago.

No that presupposes that some how the White Sox could have used the money that Jackson will receive this year for a bat. The more likely scenario is that Hudson could not get the White Sox anything better than Jackson. And salary is relevant overall, but not in the context of this trade. Reinsdorf decided that they could afford Jackson. If salary was an issue they would have gotten money back or not done the trade. The Sox clearly feel they can afford this salary, therefore it is not relevant.

How many World Series did the Sox win the previous 80 years before Kenny? How many playoff appears did the Sox have the previous 10 years before Kenny? How many Central Division Championships did the White Sox win with Schueler as GM? Its not a lifetime pass, but if you were a Sox fan from 1980-2000 you appreciate what Kenny has done a lot more.

Ill play "What my eyes tell me". And id say on the majority of White Sox trades, ive been on the right side (look it up if youd like). I was a huge fan of the Floyd trade when no one else was, and once again Ill be the only person who is a fan of this trade if I have to be. Salary is irrelevant in this discussion because the people who have the money, have decided that salary didnt matter. I am comfortable that Reinsdorf wont overspend and put his team in peril for the next few seasons. That leaves the only consideration of who is better, Hudson or Jackson. I think Hudson is a serviceable pitcher, but im not sure that I want him as a playoff pitcher this year. That would mean Freddy would be our 4. With Jackson the Sox have flexibility (if he stays). Jackson has been brutal since his no hitter, my guess is that he is suffering from dead arm. Not a great time to be picking him up, but most likely you wouldnt get Jackson for Hudson at any other team. Its clear Hudson wasnt a hot commodity to anyone else but fans on this message board.

Except for Jackson would be the equivalent of Floyd in the deal. A guy with exceptional stuff who people have soured on. Im not a huge Hudson fan.

Really Lilly and Lee? That would be a brutal deal. As for Hudson and Jackson being equal, I guess that almost 1:1 bb:k ratio Hudson is rocking really impresses people? Hudson faced 71 batters, 28 of them reached base. Im sorry but if the Sox were going to the playoffs with Hudson/Garcia at the 4 spot they were in major trouble. Jackson may not be the best pitcher, but hes a serviceable 4 with (imo) more upside than Hudson. (edit) A better cheaper pitcher than Jackson. If we traded Jackson in a pennant race for Hudson, Id be furious.

The Jackson trade is what it is. Hudson obviously was unable to land us a better cheaper pitcher, so the Sox got what they could. Would I rather have Jackson for the rest of the season than Hudson? Yes So the trade isnt bad for the Sox no matter how you much doom and gloom people want to say.

The Sox could trade Danks for a Fielder level player. Adding Jackson is either a 1 year solution until Peavy is healthy or its a precursor to another move. There is no way that: Danks, MB, Peavy, Floyd and Jackson are the 5 starters next year.

Yeah I dont understand what payroll is. /rolls eyes There is more to payroll than just adding up numbers on a message board and acting like its some secret. If the Sox added jackson, they understand their payroll better than you or I. Looking at my post it should be pretty clear there are only 2 possible scenarios: 1) Jackson is going to be traded. 2) Another starter is going to be traded. I earlier suggested that the big trade could involve Danks. Danks has not signed an extension yet and could command far more than Jackson. The Sox may see Jackson as a semi-replacement for Danks in the future and are going to cash in on Danks now while they can. So its more that I believe that the Sox management understands that payroll is a factor so if they added Jackson, they must have some sort of reason/solution to go with the payroll situation. Ive never seen Jerry write checks that he cant cash, so Ill trust that Jerry/Einhorn and the rest understand payroll more than this message board. Sorry if that comes off as offensive, but thats reality.

Payroll for the next year? In the starting rotation I have: MB, Danks, Peavy, Gavin That means the Sox only need 1 SP. The difference in price between a Garcia type veteran and Hudson is roughly $1-2mil. Thats not exactly crippling. What doesnt make sense is adding Jackson's salary, but that is why I think there is something else going on.

If Hudson was a super prospect the Sox could have gotten Dunn for him or a number of other players. The fact that this is all the Sox could get, should be telling. Unless you believe that KW didnt shop Hudson around and didnt talk with most teams. Since i believe KW has been working every team, he knew what Hudson could fetch and this was it. Makes me think of the time when Brandon Allen was traded and some people acted like the Sox had just given up on Babe Ruth.

Contrary to this boards belief Dan Hudson is not better than Joe Saunders. So unless the Sox had a Joe Saunders what the D-Backs got for Haren is irrelevant. Not to mention KW probably offered Hudson to numerous different teams, and most likely very few wanted to give him great value. It even appears the nats who want to dump salary dont want Hudson. /shrugs

The Jackson move doesnt look to be a flip at this point. That would mean the Sox would have a rotation of: Danks, Floyd, Peavy, MB and Jackson next year. That just seems like way to much salary for pitching. Floyd, Peavy and MB are locked up long term. If Jackson isnt moving, that would leave Danks (who hasnt signed an extension). If you could get an offensive beast and a solid pitcher for him, would you do it? I just am unsure how else the Sox are going to make a big move.

Anyone else nervous that the Big Deal Kenny is trying to make revolves around Danks or some one?