Soxbadger

There is a difference between over all changing of players, and using the bullpen in each and every game. But Ozzie did not mismanage the bullpen today. (Hope you can see the sarcasm) SB

Shingo's value is increases when he has success. A playing being successful means that they are playing well. I think that it is Ozzie's job to get his players to play the best they possibly can. And it is Ozzie's job to put players in the best situations so that they can succeed. If Ozzie hurt his value, it means that he did poorly, which hurts the White Sox. But I also think Ozzie seriously mishandles his bullpen at times, so Shingo is just part of a much bigger equation. SB

I agree if giving up Shingo meant a better player. The White Sox could not use him in the role that he was best suited. And I think Ozzie could have done more to promote Shingo's value. SB

Then you do not want sports illustrated. It covers all American sports, and some international. You will only get a few baseball articles a week, outside of the website and even that is not that 1 sport specific. I do not subscribe to the other magazines so I can not really say much about them. SB

Do you only want baseball information, or do you want all sports information? SB

A good wave is cool, if the fans can do things like split it, reverse it, etc. But that is more of a college atmosphere than professional sports. A bad wave is pretty lame though. SB

For a second I thought this said Griffey to Boston, and I was like: Oh s***. But then it turned out to be a thread I had already read and it made me laugh. SB

I wish we had studs in the minors. But Ill pass on Embree anyways. SB

People always discount bad outings by relief pitchers, especially when it is the managers decision that causes the subsequent bad outing. The Texas game was a blow out. The 2 Indian game's he was poorly used, over 1 ip in both situations. Vizcaino was poorly used in his 6 er game against the Indians. But to say that teams who saw him the most often did the best, is not reflected in the statistics. Ozzie lost confidence, we shall see how it pans out. SB

Yeah I rounded to make the numbers worse. And by rounding I meant I rounded part of the equation for getting era, the innings per 9 part, so that gives funky results. But as you can see, taking out 2 appearances versus Indians, and 1 versus the Rangers, and Shingo has been solid. SB

When you look like your biggest competitor, it does not matter what is right or wrong. We would look like imitators. :;shrugs:: And waving towels came from Hockey, not sure which team but a coach put a towel on a hockey stick and started waving it around. The fans then caught on. If you want some sort of thing, why not invent it ourselves, or take from one of our current players. Not use some over done swinging socks and towels around to look like every other team. My opinion of course. SB

Its not a White Sox tradition because it would be stealing another teams tradition and then trying to make it our own. Kind of like when different teams use the "Tomahawk chop", or when teams use the "terrible towels". I believe the Twins already have the towels, which look strikingly similar to White Sox. :shrugs: SB

Milkman, Okay lets take out just his worst outing: His new era is 5. If we take out his 2 worst outings, his new era is 4.16 If you take out 3 of his worst outings, his era is 3.5 Now take into account, 2 of his 3 worst outings were when he pitched over 1 inning. 2 of those 3 were against the same team. And the last of the bad outings was in a game during mop up duty. ::Shrugs:: Once again, outside of 5 appearances, Shingo was good. And when he did fail, it was generally because Ozzie put him in a position to fail. SB (All of these numbers are slightly rounded)

I know Shingo is not coming back, but how can you say the Al Central owned him. He was untouchable versus the Royals and Tigers, and mediocre versus Indians and Twins. In 2004, he was awesome against all of them. It means at worst half the Al Central had success, and the teams that he pitched the most innings against, the Royals and Tigers he had the most success against. Ozzie did not like him for whatever reason, but as I said in another thread take out 1/4 of his outtings and his era is drastically lower. A few bad outings from a rp and their whole era gets out of whack. And if Hermanson goes down with no Shingo to replace him, I have a bad feeling. I think from here on out you will see Hermanson used sparingly. And why do we need to test Jenks at the MLB level? Hes coming off an injury, should we not test him at AAA first, and if he is lights out then test him at MLB? Kind of seems backwards to me. SB

Well considering I was one of the biggest Gload supporters this off-season, I still have to stand by my, he never really was an OF. Could he play there? Sure, you could put him out there like Everett, hope that they do not hit it to him that many times, and figure that the boost in offensive production will limit the liability on defense. But regardless, I do not see many teams putting fielders like Gload in the OF. He is a great defensive 1b, he just is a below average OF. (EDIT) And I think Gload should be up and Timo should be gone. But then again I have been one of the biggest Timo haters since he was traded here. SB

DO NOT LOOK AT THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN. Has it not become clear that this team is not about "ability", but is about "chemistry". And the definition of chemistry is, Ozzie likes them. Our chemistry is fine as long as Ozzie likes them, not so fine if he does not. And I think its laughable every time the thing that holds Gload back is, he cant play OF. He could not play OF when he was healthy either. hehe SB

Shingo in june posted a .96 era. The reason he is gone is because Ozzie just lost confidence in him. Under the right circumstances he can be as effective, or more effective than last year. His k/9 has actually improved, which suggests that his stuff is still there. His main problem has been control, reflected by his BB and HR. If he falls behind he either walks the guy, or is forced to give them a fastball which they are waiting on, thus the huge increase in BB and HR. Had Shingo been given a better opportunity to fine tune his control, he may have well reverted back to last years number. Nothing you can say or do to change what has happened, just have to hope that Jenks and Vizcaino can be sound. Also we are now 1 injury (Hermanson) away from our bullpen being in complete disarray, so Ozzie better use him sparingly. And when looking closer at Shingo he was not that bad this year: April, 6 er, 3 came in 1 game. May, 5 er, 4 came in 1 game. June, 1 er. July, 7 er, 5 came in 2 games. So out of 20 or appearances, 4 were bad. Thats pretty damn good for the last guy in your bullpen. ::shrugs:: SB

Ah well, hopefully the White Sox know more than I do. I think this is a pretty bad move, especially if they get 0 in return, but maybe they know more. SB

You did not hear Jenks is unhittable and will be our closer in september based on his performance in the first game of the season. Oh there was a second game he played, nevermind. Every time I see these threads, Im reminded of the innumerous times I had to defend Garland and tell people we should not just give him away. But by now people have forgotten the flavor of the last few years and now have turned on a new player. I know Shingo has not been at the top of his game, that he is getting older, but he has invaluable experience. Maybe not in the MLB, but he has saved more games than anyone on our roster. Most of our bullpen has almost no playoff experience, I just have this feeling that we are going to neede all the experience we can get come playoff time. I could be completely wrong, but that does not happen often. ;P SB

How is it Duque replacing Shingo? Shingo has 0 starts, and Duque has 0 relief appearances. If Duque comes up and Shingo is traded, Jenks has taken his spot. If Duque comes up and Jenks is sent down, then the status quo remains. Jenks on the MLB roster over Shingo is not an improvement. SB

If we were going to add a reliever with closer experience, then I could live with Shingo being traded. If it is just to have a spot for Jenks, then I think that could be a move that will haunt us later on in the season. I know many people annointed him the next coming after his first appearance, but imo there were major flaws and he could have some control problems. I guess I just do not want to subtract, unless we are adding. And as some have pointed out, the only reason Shingo being traded makes sense, if it is part of a larger deal to acquire a bullpen replacement. SB

Id much rather trade myself for Johan Santana, but there is that whole part about the other team wanting what you are selling. Shingo is not going to get what he is worth in trade. Right now we would be selling him low, 1 year left on contract, making over $2mil, not really performing. Might as well keep him, because trading just to trade generally does not do much. If we are not significantly going to improve, we might as well keep him as insurance. Because if Hermanson struggles, etc, it is nice to have Shingo a guy used to pressure who can step in. Hope for the best, expect the worst. SB

Since Shingo is so terrible, Im sure he has more blown saves than Hermanson in the last 2 years... He has to have more blown saves than Rivera... Oh wait, never mind. Shingo was not smoke and mirrors, he is like Foulke. They rely on control to get out hitters, Shingo's control last year was much better than this year. This year he is about half an inch off, and it makes him get behind hitters. Most relievers who get behind hitters do not do that well. As soon as Shingo finds the strike zone more he will be back to putting up the numbers he did last year, regardless of how many times a team has faced him. Last year the team he faced the most times, the Twins, he only gave up 1 er in 10 2/3 ip. The teams he gave up the most to, Boston and NY, he faced for 3ip and 1ip, respectively. Personally Id rather give Shingo a chance to regain his control and be a dominant member of the bullpen, then trade for a player who might not even play this year. :shrug: SB

I dont think this rumor is very good. Shingo has a no trade clause which they fail to mention. The teams I think Shingo would approve (and in reality I think right now there is no reason to move from the Sox) are LA, San Fran, Seattle, and maybe the Angels. Why accept a trade to a team with a worse chance of winning when you are 36, on the last year of your contract, and have come from Japan to win? Does not make much sense. Im not going to even go into the fact Shingo is still one of our best pitchers in the bullpen. Relievers have ups and downs, look at Mota this year. But if Shingo is 1 inch better, than he becomes dominant again. SB

Zito took a no hitter against Texas into the 8th. I doubt he is even on the block. SB