Soxbadger

Quickman, Through various rumors around the web the following things are pretty much a given by the 3 teams interested: 1) LA is looking for a bat, Nomar and Maggs appear to be their 2 top interests. 2) The Red Sox if they sign A-Rod will be looking to trade Nomar, and acquire a LF bat to replace Manny. 3) The White Sox have a plethora of hitters that they are willing to trade for SP. LA has nothing the Red Sox really want, Sean Green probably does not really excite them, and besides for upper level talent the Dodgers have very few things that would actually help the Sox right now. The Sox will want to replace Nomar with offense, they already have upgraded their pitching staff, but can they count on Millar, Ortiz, to have career years again? With Nomar and Manny being replaced by A-Rod, the Sox lost a lot of offense, they will want something back. Whether it be a Lee level player or a Maggs. There are not many teams out there that can trade hitting for hitting with the Red Sox for Nomar, so they will have to take Pitching for Nomar and then try and pawn it off for hitting. The Red Sox are the perfect go between for the Sox and a pitching heavy team. The only questions is: What type of payroll are the Red Sox looking at, that will determine what level of player they are interested in. If the A-Rod Manny deal goes down, look for Maggs to start getting even more attention, a while ago several places had Nomar and damon for Koch/ maggs rumors, etc. Who knows what will happen, but the Red Sox will be looking the Sox way for talent if they move Manny and Nomar. SB

It would be wicked if Williams dealt Maggs for Nomar. Then LA would pretty much have to accept our 4 or 5 for 1 proposals. If not we keep Nomar, or try and get Angels and Dodgers into bidding war. Or more than likely Red Sox will ask what the White Sox want for Maggs from the dodgers, then get it for Nomar and trade it for Maggs. Who knows just speculation. SB

It seems the Dodgers and White Sox are light years apart on this deal. When you look at Dodger's boards they are saying the Sox will fold and trade Maggs for: Perez and 2 mid level prospects. When you look at White Sox boards you see Perez, plus Mota, and maybe even Jackson. What I could hope for at best would be: O. Perez, Garcia, Mota or Jackson, for Maggs and Valentine or Konerko. Seattle Gets Lo Duca who fills a need and lose a salary which they dont want. LA gets 2 power hitters, loses perez who they did not want and lo duca and are getting Konerko or Valentine and Mags. They are significantly improving their offense and only losing a pitcher they want to dump and a top level prospect or good reliever for Maggs. That is not bad at all. Sox get Garcia, SP, Perez, SP, and Mota or Jackson. Our starting staff is set, and we get a player that can move into the bullpen and replace flash, or a player who could become a great starter. We lose a big contract but take back relatively the same salary, and also get rid of $5mil or $7mil which can go towards signing Gonzalez to replace Maggs. Our SP would be: Buerhle Loaiza Garcia Perez Garland Our Pen : Mota or jackson Wunsch Marte Koch Wright -FA or maybe the guy they picked up on Rule 5 Line Up Wed still have: Lee, Thomas, Konerko or Valentine, and probably have signed Gonzalez. That still can produce runs, if Rowand, Crede, Harris, Olivo, do anything. Our pitching would be young and have a few question marks, but we cant afford to have the Schilling's of the world, so we have to get good arms who can take us places. SB

So what Kenny should of said was... "We have 3 or 4 similar RH bats we need to dump, we also are in desperate need for SP, CF, 2nd. Our teamn needs to slash payroll, and we need to do something to counter the Cubs being in the NLCS and trading for Lee, please oh please help us." Kenny is playing hardball and so is Reinsdorf. By saying they wont cut salary just to slash money they are saying: Stop asking for Maggs and giving us nothing in return. The Sox can pay him and we will keep him if you keep offering us things we dont want. Personally this makes me happier, it means they are not going to devastate this team just to get a pitcher or 2, when we can sign some cheap pitchers and hope they can give us 10 wins or so. Ponson, Perez, Garcia, all have their strengths and weaknesses, but Ponson we can just trade for. If we have the possibility of going to a $65mil payroll then we can sign some good $1-2mil free agents, and be in 1st at the All-Star break. Then we make a few trades, using our prospects to make other teams pay for high salaries. We are only a few players away , and in any season anything can happen. It is concievable that: Frank hits .280 35hr 100rbi Paul hits .280 35 100 Lee hits .280 35 100 Maggs hits .280 35 100 Our offense is going to be powerful, and while Pitching does win games, good offense can help mediocre pitching. The Sox need starters who will give them 7-8 innings and 3-4 runs. We can win with this team, and a few good FA additions could come cheap, and give us a real chance to win the AL Central. A lot of players are going to be nontendered, especially pitchers, we could get a guy like Pavano for $3-4mil, or maybe even Burnett at $6mil. Why are we in such a rush to do something, when economically it is best to wait until all of our options are out there. We are not signing one of the top free agents, and most likely we are going to get our talent via trade. Maggs, Lee, Konerko, are not going anywhere, we can wait and see what happens. Then if a trade is right we do it. I am sorry but you see teams like the Dodgers thinking we will take a Maggs for Perez, Cora, and Roberts. Personally I think Williams is asking for more like a Perez, Weaver, mota or Perez, Jackson. 2 pitchers that can help us now or nothing. We can sign guys that have upside like perez, why should we trade our best player, if we dont need the money. Thats what Kenny is saying. SB

The Braves have removed a total of 44mil from payroll from last year. The trade of Drew and Marrero (4-5mil and 3mil respectively) means the Braves spent a total of 7-8mil to get Drew. Brave's sources say that they are going to have about 78-80 mil payroll so even with increases the Braves will have about 10mil to play after the Drew trade. The difference in price $6mil is not that high compared to the results, and especially to the Braves a team that is expected to win. If William's wants to move Maggs, there will be plenty of takers. SB

It seems that the signing of Tejada will have a definite impact on what and if the Sox make any trades. Once Tejada signs, teams like LA or the Mariners may want Valentine. I think that it is why trade talks have tailed off because our trades are dependent on Tejada who is still unsigned. Also whether Nomar is going to become available could also change Valentine's worth. If the Angel's cant get Nomar, maybe they will want Valentine a good clubhouse guy with and productive offensively. The Sox have 3 or so pitchers who they likely can get: O. Perez Washburn F. Garcia Interestingly the M's and Dodger's have guillen and izturis who could be moved to the Sox. There are probably a few different offers, depending on players given and recieved, since the Sox are pretty much trading all similar players each team probably has a different trade ready depending on who is available, and they want. SB

When you lose: Maddux $19 mil, Sheffield $10 mil, Lopez $5 mil, you can afford to take on a $14 million dollar player. Name a better offensive player that is available besides Maggs? Vlad?- Most of these teams have not been able to come close to a deal. The Yankees, Red Sox, LA, teams that can pay players all covet a consistent All-Star who is not overpaid. Some people on these boards would take Maggs over Manny, and outside of the Pujols and Bonds of the world Maggs is consistent player who on a good team will be in MVP consideration every year. The extra $9mil that the Braves would of had to pay for Maggs is nothing to them, they spend $9mil on Paul Byrd. Not all teams cant afford players who are only slightly overpaid, just our team. SB

From what I have read every team has inquired about Maggs, just the asking price has been to high. Rumors have ranged from Maggs for Nomar, to Maggs for Gibbons, etc, but it has been all speculation. The White Sox seem to have the money to not have to dump players, and therefore if they are trading it is most likely going to be for talent in return. If no one wants Maggs then we keep him, trade him at the all-star break, or keep try and resign and get 1st round draft pick. Maggs: 162 615 101 189 40 2 30 114 54 70 14 6 .307 .365 .527 .892 Drew: 162 515 96 145 23 5 26 76 74 112 16 5 .282 .377 .498 .875 Lee: 162 610 96 173 35 2 27 101 45 92 12 5 .284 .334 .480 .814 These are based on 5 year averages. Not once has Drew even gotten more than 75 rbi. The trade of Drew is based on what Atlanta hopes he could produce if he played 162 games, he would be better than Lee but worse than Maggs. The problem is Drew has never played a full season, never had over 450 abs, and only once has posted a batting average over 300. Maggs will command alot more than Drew, eventhough Maggs makes more, just because Maggs is a proven and is could be an MVP candidate. Drew is just potential. SB

Drew is not even in the same league as Maggs. Drew compares at best to Konerko and Lee, hes had slightly better obp, avg, and ops, but Drew has been injury prone and probably is less valuable then Lee right now. Maggs is way more valuable, if we trade him we will get major league talent. SB

Arbitration seems to do this: If you offer arbitration you can continue to negotiate with your free agents and do not have to wait until May 11. A player can accept arbitration or find a better deal. If the player signs elsewhere and you offered arbitration, you get compensation based on his value. If the team has one of the 15 worst records you get a 2nd round pick and a 1st round sandwich pick, if the team has one of the 15 best records you get a 1st round pick and 1st round sandwich pick. There are plenty of other complications such as player ratings, etc. SB

This may have been a dream, but I read some where that they can be insured for only 3 years. Probably to much of a risk for insurance companies after that. SB

Ill start acting with gloom and doom half way through the season if the Sox are in last place, although probably even then I will be thinking about how we can trade for some prospects who will make us a better team. I like the White Sox when they are the last place team and when they are in first. I can remember as a kid Dan Pasqua hitting home runs, and he was one of my favorite players eventhough at the time he probably was not nationally recognized. Although I think I had one of those figurines so who knows. But the truth is the White Sox give me something to do, something to read about, something to watch on tv. They give me good moments even in bad seasons, they give me a playoff race when every game is a must win, and in the end I just watch them because they are my team for better or for worse. "To us it has to make sense," he said. "We're not going to go out and overpay for mediocrity." Right now the trade prices are to high, LA wants Lee for Perez. That would be pointless for the Sox, because Lee is a good value monitarily and has improved drastically since last year. Perez is a guy that the Dodgers just want to get rid of, and they are expecting teams to throw out top of the line CHEAP players. They dont seem to get that teams will take Perez if LA takes on salary, not because they are so hot on Perez they actually want to trade for him. I think now that Colon did not sign the reality is the White Sox may not do much in the offseason besides sign: 1) Top of the line reliver. 2) A few cheap starting pitchers who they think could be another Loaiza and have them compete at spring training. 3) Probably look for a bargain at 2nd and CF. But who knows, I just am happy the Sox are not doing all these knee jerk trades, last year Konerko would of been considered much more valuable then Sexson, its not like Sexson is this outstanding defensive player or super fast. The Dodgers and Diamondbacks were willing to pay through the teeth for Sexson, and it is possible Konerko moving to the NL could make him as devastating as Sexson. I just am tired of all this doom talk. SB

Dodgers, I have read the Dodgers MLB forum quite a few times and this rumor seems to be floating around more from the Dodgers side then the Sox side I would say. From my viewpoint I would say that this trade is unlikely because the Sox have little interest in Lo Duca. If the dodgers want Maggs they will probably have to take on payroll. It seems the Dodgers are unwilling to take on that much money cause they have the option of getting Vlad cheaper than Maggs and he would not be a 1 year rental. The reality is the offer and only trade that might get done is Konerko for Perez. The Sox are not trading these players because they are bad, they would be trading them because they need the money. Konerko and Perez both are question marks, Perez could of had a fluke season and get shelled in the AL. Konerko could put a good season together and hit .300 40 120. The reverse could happen also, Perez going lights out and Konerko regressing further. But unlike Perez, the White Sox do not want to move him, they only are considering it for money reasons. Konerko does not have a bad attitude, and besides for his slumps has been well liked by fans. I was at the Twins game when he hit the pinch hit home run, and you could just tell how most fans wanted Konerko to do good, and felt bad for him. If it was not for Perez's bad reputation and 4+ era in the NL, he would be much more valuable. But last year most people were hesitant about a Konerko for Ramirez trade. Right now the Dodgers are probably waiting the Sox out to see if they will sweeten the deal. If the deal is going to get done it will probably include Valetin or Brochard. Otherwise I think these teams are just to far apart on what they each want. Perhaps because Evans and Williams both want to get the best of the other to prove that he is the GM, who knows. But the sox dont want lo duca, seems like we are getting things we dont really need. SB

Even if it is deferred money, its more than what the Twins are offering. 15 for 3 is alot better than 8 an option for 12. I think this offer says Colon is gone and now they are putting their Colon money into other areas. SB

Japan? I remember last year that was one of the rumors if he did not get the contract that he wanted. Here are 2 places that I am going to guess that I have not heard; 1) Braves: With Sheff and Lopez gone, Braves might want a player who actually comes up with hits in the playoffs. 2) Texas: If they trade A-Rod and get cash from Boston, they might try and bring back a fan favorite to take the sting out of losing A-Rod. Otherwise O's, etc SB

I really do not think that there will be any trades until the A-Rod Manny situation is sorted out. I think everyone is holding out because the Red Sox are throwing Nomar's name out there and a lot of teams are interested, once either a deal goes down or falls apart, then other GM's will know more about what is available. SB

Quickman, And just as easily the White Sox could be saying that their next years payroll is less than what it is really going to be. If we can not believe the press on good rumors, why should we believe the press on bad rumors? If the Sox bumped their payroll to 70mil they could trade for a KB if they get rid of Jose and Konerko. Its all about mind games and making people believe things that are not true. In theory the Sox could be making people believe that they are not going to raise payroll, while actively working to sign free agents. With the FA market the way it is, maybe Reinsdorf will be willing to take a shot. Stranger things have happened. But the reality is you just have to wait and see. Who knows what could happen, maybe Reisndorf will get excited about a Vlad or Kevin Brown and be willing to spend. The best thing to do is to look at every rumor and see which ones are best and hope they come true. Personally I hope valentine and konerko become KB. SB

Well if there is any truth to the Kevin Brown rumor, then it is most likely both the Sox and Dodgers delaying equally. Both teams seem like they are waiting for some free agents to get signed, arbitration offered, etc. I expect that after Dec 7th we will have a much better picture of what is going on. SB

What the Dodgers think Perez is worth and what he really is worth are 2 different things. Perez for Edmonds, Cardinals wouldnt go for it. Perez for Beltran, seems KC wont do it. Perez for Lee, Sox would not do it. The reality of the situation, is that even when I look past Konerko's half season's of badness, I realize that at any moment he could become one of the leagues best hitters. He can hit any fastball, and he is a pretty good off spead hitter. We complain that he gidp to much, but most of those grounders were sharp hit but just at people. If the Sox did not have a bunch of right handed power, Konerko would be much more valauble in our eyes. La needs a hitter bad, and Konerko is a hitter thats available. It is with great trepidation I read the news each day, because while right now I might want Perez, there were times where I would look at Konerko's swing and just see that he would be good for a long time. SB

Rex, I agree on a whole they over value players they like. But fans are also quickly to get down on a player and want to ship them off for nothing. Look at Konerko and Koch, Most Sox message boards have fans pleading to dump them for nothing. Read the boards where people want to acquire them and most say completely different things. Most players are usually in the middle of the "he sucks" to "Hes the best", and their percieved value matters drastically based on a persons opinion. Personally, I just hope that we do not get stuck in the mindset that we have to trade just to make a splash. If we are trading for an excess for a need, that is one thing. But when you start to trade just to shake things up or cause a stir, I think you are more likely to end up with a trade you regret a year from now. SB

The problem is that people consistently under value our own talent, while overvaluing other teams talent. Buerhle might not be as good as Pujols, but to the White Sox Buerhle is one of our most valuable, if not the most valuable on the team. We are constrained by a $60 million bugdet. When we have a player making less than $1mil and winning 15 games, that is a very valuable player. With trades being made around salary dumps, and teams needing to cut payroll, Buerhle becomes one of the elite pitchers in the game that can be had by any team for the right trade. Most teams can not afford the Kevin Brown's of the world, but every team can afford Mark Buerhle. Therefore it is supply vs demand. The supply of cheap young left handed pitchers who have won almost 50 games in 3 years is almost nill. Prior to last season, Buerhle posted plus 15 win seasons and sub 4 eras. He made $445k last year. Colon made: 8.2mil Colon won 15 games. Buerhle won 14 games. So we paid, $7.8mil for 1 extra win. The economics of the White Sox make Buerhle almost untouchable, and therefore he could only be traded for a player that is cheap and outstanding unless the Sox were going to drastically improve payroll. Pujols has been an outstanding player his first 2 seasons, and an MVP his 3rd. Buerhle has been an outstanding player his first 2 seasons (perphaps comparably better than Pujols), and saw a decline in his 3rd. Pujols and Buerhle are both invaluable to the team they play for, and therefore both pretty much untouchable. The point of my post was that for the Sox to trade Buerhle theyd need to get a cheap young talent in return. There really are not that many cheap talents that teams are willing to part with, therefore any trade that starts with Buerhle is pretty far fetched. SB

hehe Rex, I was just saying that the value of Beurhle to the White Sox is so high right now it would have to be an insane trade for us to take it. It is not easy to find cheap left handed pitchers who win 15 games consistently. I doubt the white sox listen to any offers for Buerhle unless a Pujols type player is in the mix. The cardinals cant even trade Edmonds for perez, which means Edmonds value is almost at Konerko's. Drew's value is less than Konerko's. So we would be trading: Buerhle, Maggs, and Valentine for: 2 konerkos and a renteria. Wow that is making me excited. Probably a more reasonable effort would have been: Maggs, Buerhle, Valentine for Morris, Edmonds, Renteria. But that just seems like a trade to make a trade. In my opinion you only make trades that you feel you are winning, not just to reshuffle your team. SB

Ill pass. The only way Id trade Buerhle is if we are getting Pujols. If the trade was Buerhle, Mags, Valentine for Pujols, Renteria, Morris. Id consider it. Buerhle is an underpaid number 1 pitcher, that is a rarity. Only way I would want, Edmonds, Renteria, and Drew is it came like: Edmonds, Renteria, Drew for Konerko, Maggs, and Valentine. Drew and Konerko is a wash, both have shown glimpses that they can be All-Stars. Probably St. Louis would not do this deal, but maybe. SB

Does this mean the Sox will for sure get a 1st round pick? I can never seem to get a handle on arbitration and the rest that needs to be done for a team to get compensation for losing free agents. SB

Associated Press CHICAGO -- The Cubs added some power to their lineup Tuesday, acquiring Derrek Lee from the Florida Marlins for Hee Seop Choi and a minor leaguer to be named. Lee hit .271 with 31 homers, 92 RBI and 21 steals last season for the World Series champion Marlins. Lee has 20 homers in each of his last four seasons and has 40 steals over the last two years -- the most by any first baseman in the majors. Lee also is considered one of the game's best defensive first basemen, and he won his first Gold Glove this year. Interesting move, hopefully this makes Reinsdorf want to spend more money and actually try and compete to win the city back. Who knows, he did sign the first 10million dollar a year contract, maybe hell go crazy and give us a real payroll. We can always hope. SB