EvilMonkey

ANd yet he is saying 'I don't have to prove thier guilt, they have to prove thier innocence'. I wonder who is next on the Obama admin hit list. He is making Nixon's enemies list look weak by comparrison. Going to go down as the most petty President in history.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 02:38 PM) ^this. There's an awful lot of ridiculously unreasonable rhetoric from the right (and big business) on this issue specifically and science in general that has to be countered. Starting from a position of "what makes the most sense financially and has the biggest, quickest impact" means we'll go from a good solution to a pile of crap that's barely better than status quo during the political discourse in this country. Just look at the health care boondoggle. You know, it would help if every time the one side gets the tiniest bit of data to support its position, it didn't exagerate it 1000-fold or just make s*** up becauor just because the real data wasn't 'sexy' enough to induce fear to act now. You lie, and it doesn't matter what the truth is, people will not believe you.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 09:47 AM) I think that even on the economic level, "stop ruining the environment" is a winner. If we don't spend the money now to address the issue, it's going to cost us much more down the road. Not necessarily in terms of technological implementation, but in terms of lost or destroyed economic opportunities (loss of fisheries, droughts, floods, etc.). But I don't think "it will cost too much" is a valid rejection of "stop ruining the environment", even if that is a net economic loser. "stop ruining the environment" isnt a valid rejection of "it will cost too much". I think that is what nss is trying to say.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 07:33 AM) I'd rather not have either of them in there. I've said before, Reid is probably my least favorite current Senator, at least of ones I know much about. Unfortunately, the GOP challenger in his election (Angle) is, amazingly, even worse. I bet she would at least pick people who were alive.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 11, 2010 -> 06:25 PM) According to Harry Reid, the greatest living Americans are Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd. A drunk who killed a woman and a former head of the kkk. Nice. And they say the witch in Delaware or where ever it is isn't smart enough to be in the Senate.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 8, 2010 -> 04:54 PM) I'll say it again: yes, he chose poorly, but that decision could have been rectified without much difficulty and without harm to anyone else; why is this suffering and punishment necessary? What good does that serve? They let his house burn down over $75. They did not save any money by letting it burn and then preventing it from spreading (and any competent fire department should prevent fires from spreading if they are able). Again, What good does that serve? Why is this suffering and punishment necessary? If, as a society, we can prevent great harm coming to a fellow human being, a citizen and a neighbor, with minimal risk and cost to ourselves, why shouldn't we? That's a pretty weak cop-out. You'd also need to show that performing this service would open them up to liability beyond their typical operating liability. LIke you need to show that it could have been put out with minimal or no risk to the firefighters. We are just gonna have to disagree. To me, you can't seem to get past the 'compassion, compassion, compassion' part of the argument. kinda like the Dems saying everything they do is 'for the kids' or some such tripe.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 8, 2010 -> 04:28 PM) You're still not really defending this policy or the decisions made. They could have put out the fire. They could have billed him later even if no formal mechanism exists. Instead of expanding this policy, they can get these payments covered in other manners so situations like this don't arise. What they should not have done, either as government officials or decent human beings, is let this man's house burn down and then head out there to put out the remains. The mayor could have chosen to handle this differently regardless of what the policy is. I notice the theme in your posts that this man needs to be punished for his actions. "bit him in the ass" "learn his lesson" "bill him up the wazoo so hard". Yes, he chose poorly, but that decision could have been rectified without much difficulty and without harm to anyone else; why is this suffering and punishment necessary? What good does that serve? Maybe he will remember to pay the bill next time? What good would a few hundred extra dollars do? 'Forget' to pay it 3 or 4 more years and you have your fine back. You are saying they should have done things without a plan in place. Put it out and charged him more. OK, they put it out and send him a bill for $10,000. Now he disputes that bill as reasonable and refuses to pay. It goes to court, where everyone loses except the lawyers. Or they bill him somethign small like $500, which he pays and then forgets about sometime in the near future. There are a lot fo things the town should have done prior to this. Should have not gone in the first place if he hadn't paid, or had a plan to put it out and bill afterwards in place beforehand. But they didn't. The homeowner should have also just paid his damn bill, and this post would never be here. "but that decision could have been rectified without much difficulty and without harm to anyone else;". Do we really know that? Firefighters get hurt fighting fires, anythign cold have happened, opening the town up to lots of insurance liability. Just sayin.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 8, 2010 -> 04:01 PM) That they are terrible people and no good comes from this policy. It is indefensible. If you let one not pay and then pay only at the moment they need it, soon everyone will just not pay until they need it. What point is there in having rules, deadline, etc if you just gonna pat everyone on the head when they f*** up and say 'that's ok, we'll fix it'. Personal responsibilty. he KNEW he had to make a payment, and didn't. He made that payment (almost) every year he had been there, did he just suddenly think it would be ok if he skipped, just this once? He may have initially 'forgot' to pay it, but the bill was there somewhere, unless he threw it away, and if he continued to 'forget' it, then that is nobody's fault but his own. The fire department should have never went out there to begin with, and if, as Tex mentioned earlier, they HAVE put out some fires and billed afterwards, then that leaves the department open to a whole host of other problems. But this guy made a HUGE mistake, and this time it bit him in the ass. (Just to point out, I am not happy for his loss, or the loss of the pets. I DO think they should have had a plan in place to put it out and then bill him up the wazoo so hard he couldn't sit for years, but they didn't, and he didn't pay, so that's that.)

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 8, 2010 -> 03:51 PM) They had the resources and elected not to act. And your point is?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 8, 2010 -> 11:41 AM) Analogies to TV's or cars don't work because this is a public service. Tax revenues are hurt. Property values are hurt. The community is hurt. Someone lost their house and their pets burned alive. The town had the resources to put out a fire and the mayor chose not to. You can't divorce the moral issue here. You still keep slightly missing the point. This man's property was NOT IN THAT TOWN, so therefor the town lost zero property tax revenue and property value. That town had no legal obligation to put out his fire since he did not pay taxes that went to the fire department and did not pay the fee that would have given him access to that service. You can seperate out the two. And they did.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 8, 2010 -> 11:17 AM) Therefore, he deserves to watch his house burn down over $75. Why does the dollar amoount matter? If it was $7500 would that have been better? The fact that it was as low as $75, which probably didn't even cover the gas for them to go there makes it all that much wierder that he didn't pay it. He didn't pay a bill for a service, and the service didn't have in place a system to pay after the fact. Try to but the extended warranty on your TV after it breaks, see what happens. Try to buy car insurance after you plow into a tree, enjoy. He screwed up, didn't pay a bill, and lost. His taxes don't go to that town, so the town owed him nothing. Now, the morally correct thing would have been to put it out and bill his ass heavily afterwards, but again, that is a different issue.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Oct 8, 2010 -> 09:48 AM) My source was the radio driving into work yesterday morning, but I do think that the point is irrelevant. So is the point about him having his property insured. Personally, I think that if a public entity chooses to offer fire protection for some of its citizens, it should offer that protection for all of its citizens. That's why we pay taxes in the first place. It DOES offer it for all of its citizens. it also offered it for residents outside their area, for a fee. Which is where he was, outside their area. My point about him not having enough insurance is that the man is an idiot.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Oct 7, 2010 -> 03:01 PM) Do you have a link for that info anywhere? Because I heard on the radio today that this wasn't the first fire at this guys place, and the last time he hadn't paid either. But I can't find that online anywhere. OK, I found an article that said this wasn't the first time he had missed paying, but he had only missed one time before. Also nothig about him having a previous fire. The one I saw did mention that he also was woefully under insured because he didn't think he needed it.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Oct 7, 2010 -> 01:52 PM) Apparently he paid every year prior to this year, and the bill just didn't get paid this year and it was unintentional FWIW. Do you have a link for that info anywhere? Because I heard on the radio today that this wasn't the first fire at this guys place, and the last time he hadn't paid either. But I can't find that online anywhere.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 6, 2010 -> 07:48 PM) A giant red flag to me is he also mentioned people he knew who did not pay it *and* the city still responded. That's a different issue, but a serious one for the department if true.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 6, 2010 -> 09:38 PM) Who cares though, if you live in that town and a bunch of people forget to pay it (which is likely in opt-in models), you still have to deal with a bunch of empty burned down properties and that affects you. This is like, the classic collective action model, it's stupid to mess with. it doesn't effect the town with the fire department. Their residents are covered by their property taxes. Why would they care what happens in the unincorporated areas? There should be provision for putting it out anyway for those who don't pay, but STEEP provisions, not just a few hundred bucks.

He only had to 'opt in' because he didn't pay any taxes to that town at all, much less for fire service. I agree they probably should have put it out and then billed him to the max, but he sort of deserved it for taking a gamble that failed. How will people learn if you bail them out of their mistakes all the time? He was aware of the lack of fire coverage, and aware of the opt in fee to BE covered by a neighboring town to which he paid no taxes. He chose. Poorly.

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Oct 5, 2010 -> 01:35 PM) Jim Marshall (D) GA. wants to pull an Obama....Ok OK, the GA Democratic Party wants to do to Austin Scott what the Dems in Illinois did to Ryan. He/They want a judge to unseal his/their opponents divorce records. The judge set a hearing one week before the election....and then recused herself because she previously donated to his campaign and her husband donated to his campaign this year. Keep up the good work ....Just looking out for his constituents I'm sure....Desparation knows no bounds. Scott was divorced in 2001, and his records were sealed in 2004. Why wait six years. Scott has been an elected offoicial for 14 years. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=...5iYzNo8Zjx2Xx8w Because they can't win on the issues. Even when they have facts, they are so unconfident in those facts that they exagerate them to try and make their point even more and then end up looking foolish.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Oct 5, 2010 -> 09:58 AM) Whatever happened to Dan Evans? Remember him, he was Rick Hahn before Rick Hahn was cool. I like Hahn but do not think KW is giving up his job for him just yet. Didn't he attempt something with the Dodgers?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 4, 2010 -> 06:32 PM) I think his point was about mandatory policies and why it is a good idea. And I turned it around. Why buy protection until after you need it! he knew of the need, was able to afford the price and didnt do it just 'because'. Then when his hosue got 'sick', it was too late.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 4, 2010 -> 04:47 PM) Now replace "fire department" with "Health insurance". Sure, why buy health insurance until you really need it. You can always get it when your ass is on fire. No need to be prepared and plan ahead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AoZsp4_xw...player_embedded Kids admit that they getting class credit to go to the One Nation rally. I guess they had to bribe some people to go. Or give them free bus rides vie the SEIU.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Oct 3, 2010 -> 06:00 PM) Haven't seen one. From what I've heard it was smaller, but not that much smaller. Take it for what its worth, sine it is from a conservative blog I am sure you will dismiss it outright, but just look at the two pics for comparison. It wasn't even close. if it was, you know it would be trumpeted all over MSNBC, etc as a victory for liberal causes everywhere, they sure put Glen Beck in his place, etc. http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/...e-nation-rally/ I found the same pic here as well, just for you. http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1...149199_huge.jpg

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Sep 30, 2010 -> 01:00 PM) Pathetic! http://www.ktvb.com/news/Medal-of-Honor-re...-104032604.html Even more pathetic was the One Nation rally thinking they could come even close to what Beck got for his. Even with Unions bussing people in, they couldn't even come close.

I got 12/15.