EvilMonkey

QUOTE (Texsox @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 04:53 PM) NSS, Your ideas are a step in the right direction, but IMHO still miss the mark. The basic premise is should we accept fundamental and extreme differences in the *public* education opportunities between any two children? Richard Rodriguez in his autobiography Hunger of Memory, The Education of Richard Rodriguez makes a powerful argument against affirmative action in education which resulted in quotes and admitting less qualified minorities over better qualified Anglos as some leveling attempt at fairness. His principle pbjection is these quotas come at the end and adjust the finish line, what needs to happen is adjust the starting lines so everyone has the same opportunity. Then what they make of that opportunity will determine who is admitted to Universities, gets hired, etc. Of course "his community" was outraged, but it made sense to me. Having a child start at a typical middle class elemetary school versus a child starting out at a poor school and the gaps start widening. Then in 12 years we attempt to close those gaps with preferential treatment, then wonder when these kids fail at a higher rate then their peer group. Yes, the best place for any 'leveling out' would be in the early years where they can develop good habots that will help them succeed. Plus, the extra needs at that age are usually limited to things like speech teachers. Where the budgets get messed up is when the district has to import spanish speaking teahcers because a small percentage of the kids have no grasp of English. Or when they have to hire a teacher just to take care of one or two mentally challenged kids, because the law says they have to. You can spend $70,000 just to educate 2 or 3 kids. That raises the per kid average alot.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 04:39 PM) It wouldn't surprise me, given that Hillary's brother allegedly met with a senior McCain campaign worker about a week and a half ago. Hell, there could've been outright collusion between the two camps. I read a lot of Dick Morris' columns, who (despite being a biased Republican) is pretty honest in his analysis and is very insightful. He'd been pushing HARD for Hutchinson for weeks (and Lieberman, prior to Biden getting the nod) and I suspect that the McCain campaign got the message that they really needed to shake things up and do something unconventional. Wasn't Morris an advisor to Clinton back in the early 90's? and then his campaign manager? I know he has appeared on Fox alot but I believe that was because of his turnabout on Clinton, usually bashing Hillary. We all know Fox is evil, but merely being on it doesn't turn you Republican.

Anyone recall when Bush selected Chaney as his VP, the grief he got for having received 5 draft deferments? Biden had the same amount of deferments. And, despite being a college football player and all around athelete, after the deferments ran out he received a Selective Service classification of 1-Y, (in 1968, middle of the war) meaning he was available for service only in the event of national emergency. due to a previously undiagnosed case of asthma. Maybe Democrats who gleefully questioned Cheney’s manhood and patriotism over this issue should now explain why they support a candidate for the same office with the same record of deferments.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 04:16 PM) That's why I said that the district or locality level determines cost structure, not the state. That give you your basic, regional tax level. But what is covered by that? The building? And each district would have different needs because each one has differing student body sizes.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 03:39 PM) This must somehow have been fabricated. I have heard that only the liberal media is deriding this pick. Only if you read back out loud what you typed. Nobody here ever said that. You may have inferred that from someone saying 'the liberal media...', that's about it. Obama has his share of Democrats that were unhappy with Biden as well. Can't please everybody.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 03:58 PM) OK, as this topic bounced around in my head today, I came up with a possible idea. Let me know what you think... When you look at higher end districts with greater funding, the money doesn't just go to higher teacher salaries or newer books. A lot goes to "extras" - music, sports, high end facilities and technology, etc. Seperately, I think we can all agree that the key thing we should be trying to guarantee for all youth in the public school systems is a strong, complete core education. Basic academics, but STRONG basic academics. We all want our children to OPPORTUNITY to excel and enhance their education through whatever non-core activities they choose - a certain sport, math club, fancy elective classes (I took Aeronautics in high school, for example). But that solid core education, the basis for future learning (college and in the real world), is a NECESSITY. So let's have a tiered funding system in public schools. Each state determines what if feels are core competencies that are necessary to achieve. Each county or city or district figures out, in their environment, how much it will cost to provide that, all-in. This number is the tax level needed (funding) in order to give ALL students a strong, complete core education. The number should be LESS than the current taxes, which provide other plus-ones, as noted earlier. What you have done here is put more money in people's pockets, but equalized the system (as much as that is possible) so that everyone gets at least that basic education. Now, what to do with that extra money? All those electives, extracurriculars, etc., become "features" at each school district. Students who choose to participate can pay for those extras, or they can not do that at all. The ball is in the court of parents, and their kids, to decide what is important and worthwhile. What this does is, it allows for parents who work hard to provide for their kids' education to pay more for more services, if they want to. So you aren't ripping off the parents in a district like New Trier. But it also lowers taxes and stabilizes core education for poorer students. I think this type of plan embodies what Republicans want out of a voucher system - competition-created strength, consumer choice, and the right to earn educational rewards - without bankrupting poorer schools as vouchers would. Now, this idea is not perfect. But... any thoughts? The big problem would be that those core services would cost more in some district than others due to staffing. Each distric negotiates thier own contracts, teachers living around Northbrook need to make more to live near there than teachers in Ford Heights. That is a massive variable. I think your idea is fine, but teacher pay needs to be addressed. If you put a standard payscale in based on years and/or educational level, the unions will scream as this cuts down the amount of money they can mile from the richer teachers, and the teachers will scream (at least those on the higher end) because I am sure that under any equilization plan, those on the upper end would probably get cuts. I'll have to thihnk about that one for a bit.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 01:27 PM) typical "our flag is bigger than yours" set? The Dems HAD a flag that Ayers wasn't standing on?

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 12:31 PM) AP coverage of Kilpatrick, mentioning him as a democrat 3 paragraphs in: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gMmCL2Z...E4b9NgD92VCJFG1 Governor's hearing to remove Detroit mayor begins By ED WHITE and COREY WILLIAMS – 1 hour ago messages between the Democratic mayor and his former top aide, Christine Beatty, on city-issued pagers. I deleted most of the text because the Ap is so strict about amount of words you can use without subscription and I don't want the site to get in trouble Yeah, I hear they are charging by the WORD for anything over 25. You got 31, if they count their names! Look out!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 01:07 PM) Aside from commenters @ DailyKos (You get them and I get the right wing commentors and those are usually quite a bit more fun On this point, you are SO full of it. Go ahead, find a mainstream conservative site that had tons of front page posts and comments wishing death on Kennedy after his recent hospitalization. And I said mainstream, not some whacko fringe site with 20 hits a day. Koz is a mainstream dem site, like it or not. They even have sitting representatives posting on there (Pelosi). Cheney goes in the hospital, they have to cut off comments because it gets so damn vile it even disgusts Koz. Go there and start a post about Bush having been diagnosed with colon cancer and see how long it takes until the first post says somehting so vile it disgust you. I bet you lass than 5. You can say that Obama hasn't said stuff, of his campaign manager hasn't said stuff, but if referring to the left in general, especially blogs, commentators, etc, you are just wrong. The left side is so way over the top in violence, anger and venom that it is just not funny. (sorry for the thread-veer)

QUOTE (Texsox @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 01:29 PM) You made a number of excellent points Alpha. To add, those broken windows and graffiti perpetuates a downward spiral for the entire community. Research over and over again shows that communities that do not keep up appearances, have too many absentee owners, abandoned buildings where crime can occur without the owner complaining, almost never recover. Sometimes I get one right. We don't always snark at each other.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 01:24 PM) I wasn't joking. You perfectly emphasized my point. It diverts attention away from what happened and focuses on how it is reported. Exactly what the GOP wants. The identification is mentioned when it is necessary for those readers understanding. It would be silly to mention Richie is a Dem in Chicago. It would be silly to mention McAllen Mayor Cortez's party affiliation because they do not run on a party ticket, but we know he is a Dem. And follow any conservative newspaper and they do the same thing. So I fail to see how that means a liberal bias. So the NY paper should have mentioned the party for both Spokane and Detroit? Funny, they only mentioned one. You are right, in DETROIT, there is not much need to mention that Kwame is a Democrat. Nor Daley in Chicago. And there are a few mayors that are known nationally, like Daley, Rudy (ex-mayor), Bloomburg. But not all of them. Give me the story. the WHOLE story. And if the D or R are unimportant, then don't list them at all.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 01:05 PM) Oh bollocks. Everyone in this forum knows he was a democrat, everyone in this forum is west of new york. The TV, newspaper, radio media all was covering him and all knew about them being democrat. what makes it more relevant when they are republicans with gay sex scandals is that often times they were opponents of gay rights bills. And that's funny. You have to admit. Everyone in this forum may have known, but do people in New York know that Kwane is a Democrat? They sure know Craig is a Republican? Yeah, yeah, that old state vs fed thing again. Show me an official style sheet, I'll shut up (at least about that). I know they have one, but it is like $20 or so, and I am not enriching them one penny. A question, your story about the guy who called the police on himself. What was the outcome? That just sounds like he had some problems. edit I see that you are looking for one. You posted while I was typing. It happens.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 01:06 PM) and what of the post before Alpha Dog? Can you post a style sheet, or do you just have your example from Seattle?

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 12:58 PM) and for real who the hell didn't know mcgreevey was a democrat? Most people west of New York?

QUOTE (Texsox @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 12:48 PM) See, the style is way more important then what happened. It perfectly deflects attention away from the politicians and what they did or did not do. An intelligent person like Alpha notices this above anything else. Ah, you joke, because that is all you can do. If it is so unimportant, then why mention it at all? I guess it is just unimportant if it is a D. Maybe that key is just broken? Didn't the Clinton's steal a bunch of W's fromt he WHite House keyboards? Maybe Howard Dean went around to AP and stole all their 'D' keys? Naw, can't be that, or he would be forever known as 'Howar Ean'.

QUOTE (Soxy @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 10:24 AM) I don't really understand your point. I would assume property taxes would be different. I would also assume that there are lower rates of home ownership in Chicago relative to Wheaton, Oswego, or River Forest. The people who own all those apartment buildings pay the taxes for schools as well. So, in a roundabout way, do the renters. The problem is you just can't fix the one point. Put a nice new school on the lower south side, in 3 weeks it will have broken windows, missing computers and graffiti all over it. Yes, you need good building. yes, you need good teachers. You also need to have paretnts involved, and kids to actually want to learn. Keeping kids in school who have no desire to learn just makes it harder for those that DO want to learn to accomplish anything. So you need money (teachers, buildings,etc), parents that want their kids to learn and kids that want to learn. Without the last 2, the first one would be a giant money sucking machine getting zero results.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 10:43 AM) I disagree with you, there is an official style sheet for the AP. I don't think I've ever put affiliation for local politics. State level, yes. But local, even if they affiliate themselves to a party sometimes it's meaningless. Obviously for detroit it is something, but at the local level I've never seen us put party affiliation. I've never seen it on articles of Guiliani or Daley either. OK, it's not AP, but let's go with the NY Times. When talking about former govenor George Ryan, it takes 4 paragraphs to mention he was a Republican governor. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/us/08ryan.html But when talking about current mayor Kwame kilpatrick, the mention it as a 1 line sentance, 3rd to last paragraph. If you are in journalism, you know that most people don't always finish stories, which is why important facts are mentioned early in the story http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/03det...&ei=5087%0A Spokane mayor is sex scandal! First sentance names him as a Republican http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/223201_west06.html AP story about McGreevy, a pretty sorid affair itself, not one mention that he wears a D. Not even a throway line at the end. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/08/...in4333300.shtml Laziness, agenda, both? In the last post about this I linked to 2 stories by the same writer, one about a D and one about an R. Guess where the R was mentioned? I am sure this isn't 'official', but it doesn't mention anything about political designations and how to do them. http://www.scribd.com/doc/2664713/Associat...uide-the-basics

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 11:35 AM) Here's the rub of that statement though...2 of the biggest right wing newspapers in the country, the Washington Times and NY Post, are pretty darn unprofitable, especially the Washington Times. Their owners, 2 guys named Rev. Sung Myung Moon and Rupert Murdoch, have dumped an awful lot of money in to them to keep them running. Rev. Moon has dumped somewhere over $2 billion in to running the Washington Times to this date. Well, that both refutes Tex since conservatives HAVE bought papers, and supported me, showing that even those they bought do not seem to be making money.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 11:39 AM) Do you actually want Olbermann doing the RNC though? Plus he would have a stroke or something. Sure. Think of the ratings THAT would get! Moonbat libs turnign in to see thier hero lay one on the Repubs, moonbat Repubs turning in to see the media bias posterboy in action, the women's groups waiting to see how long until he makes a sexist comment about Palin and the FCC waiting to fine them for his inevitable meltdown when he finally tells someone on air to f*** off. Oh, and yeah, he wold probably have a stroke or something.

Am I hearing things, or when Obama and company talk about Palin, they refer to her as the mayor of a small town? Why do they keep ignoring that she was governor of a state, with a budget of like $4 billion? I know his campaign has raised alot of money, but not THAt much.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 08:35 AM) 'No tounge!'

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 08:29 AM) Well yeah, obviously if Edwards was the VP candidate, that story would be ALL that the MS was discussing. Even though they ignored it when he was still running for President? They didn't cover it as it was until their hand was forced. I think one of the papers said something about wanting to 'protect Elizabeth'.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 08:30 AM) Chicago does not spend "way up near the top" per pupil. New Trier, for example, spends something like 5 times as much per student as some city high schools. I read that in the Kozol book, and other places since, but don't have a link, or know the exact number. The last article that was posted contained this: . That would put them near the top. Sure, New Trier blows them away, but there are still many schools doing more with less.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 07:53 AM) And I also think it's the tens of millions of supporters that make him look like a celebrity. Can't blame this all on a handful of pundits. Thanks, you just made my point. Now, onto another question. I wonder why MSNBC decided not to have Olbermann do the republican convention? Didn't he do a great job with the Democratic convention? I wonder what they were afraid he would say? Or do?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 3, 2008 -> 08:20 AM) I agree that's a tough or impossible sell, and I agree that money is not an automatic advantage or disadvantage. But I ALSO think that money isn't irrelevant - its a factor. Wow, then we agree. But next question, how much is enough? it has already been pointed out that Chicago spends way up near the top per pupil, but ranks well below many other schools spending less.