EvilMonkey

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 23, 2008 -> 01:40 AM) It would be funny if that happened. Two tickets who both appeared to have completely burned down bridges to ever get along. The fact that there is an Obama/Biden ticket and very well could be a McCain/Romney ticket tells you how important "electability" is now a days. Biden also said "Right now I don't believe he is. The presidency isn't something that lends itself to on the job training" when asked if he thinks Obama is ready to be president, and then stood by it, during 2007. Now I understand that was when he was in the race, but the GOP is going to jump all over that, guaranteed. Between Biden and McCain, you've got two of the great tempers in the history of presidential tickets regardless of party, so this SHOULD be fun. I think this is going to be an ugly and negative campaign run by both parties, ESPECIALLY if McCain picks Lieberman or Romney because that gives the dems a lot of targets to fire at too. The ad is already out.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Aug 22, 2008 -> 10:33 PM) You could make a moral equivalency argument to Russia's behavior with Georgia, absolutely. South Ossetia has been a troublesome but accepted province of Georgia for most of recent history, and Russia alleges systematic oppression of the Russian minority that makes up the bulk of this province's population. Whether or not this pretext is true, it was pretext enough to justify an invasion of Georgian soil. This is the extension of the Bush doctrine that we never wanted to see, frankly. Before you go and say I'm blaming America, I'm not. This is just an opportunity for Russia to take some degree of diplomatic cover for an act it would have done regardless of our involvement in Iraq. The problem is that our involvement in Iraq not only gives Russia an excuse that is difficult for us to wash away (since its the same one we used five years ago), but also renders us much weaker in being able to take the international leadership role that we should be able to take to defuse this situation. I can see the equivalency argument for the 'reasons' for going to war, but not in their actions once there. Russia has killed indiscriminately and destoryed at will anything and everything in its path. The US did not do this and took great pains to try and avoid civilian casualties and destruction. ues, they happens sometimes, but the didn't happen on purpose, and when they did they were always investigated because of the anti-war groups here and abroad howling about the eeeevil America. Russia just flips the world the bird and says 'oh well'.

QUOTE (pierard @ Aug 23, 2008 -> 12:40 AM) Simply put, Russia/Georgia and China/Taiwan are two completely different situations in every front. The recent elections in Taiwan have greatly decreased tensions between the PRC and the ROC. As an example, there are now direct flights between China and Taiwan. China is not about to march into Taiwan because of some other completely unrelated conflict. I realize that in and of themselves they are completely different situations. But my thought was now that China has noticed that Russia could invade, kill people, stall and basically do whatever they want without any real repercussions, maybe now would be a good time to finally put Tiawan in their place. regardless of their lowered tensions, China has always regarded them as part of China from the start. And I wouldn't put anything past China. I think that region bears alot of extra caution over the next several months.

QUOTE (YahtzeeSox @ Aug 22, 2008 -> 06:03 PM) The same could be said about your BDS. Blind Dog Syndrome Funny. Don't quit your day job. Are you suggesting that Iraq and georgia are morally equivalent to each other? But if you can put away your America hatred for a moment, what do you thik of the idea that China may use the events in georia to thier advantage in thier struggle against Tiawan? Or is snark about the maximum difficulty for your thought process?

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 22, 2008 -> 04:28 PM) NBC reporting that it's 99 pct sure it's Biden. That would be bad for Obama, good for John. How much vote did he get in Iowa this year, .5%?

QUOTE (YahtzeeSox @ Aug 22, 2008 -> 04:19 PM) You know who else doesn't give a flying f*** what the world community thinks? The USA. Hey, let's let Georgia invade South Ossetia and destroy hospitals, kill civilians, shoot at the press, etc. Hey, let's go put some missile defense systems in Poland. Hey, let's go "liberate" Iraq. hey, let's force 'democracy' on sovereign nations around the world. The only place the USA isn't being held accountable for these actions is in... hmmm... the USA... lazy Americans sit by while George "I Wish I Was a Dictator" Bush runs rampant around the world with his globalist views... Ooooohhh, that's strong. And everyone wonders why the rest of the world hates us. You need a doctor, your BDS is really starting to show.

I wonder if China is keeping an eye on the Russia/georgia situation. Seeing how we haven't done a thing there, maybe this will give them the courage to go take back Tiawan, sinec they think it is there anyway. The problem in dealing with countries like Russia and China, is that they don't give a flying f*** what the 'world community' thinks about what they do. They will destroy hospitals, kill civilians, shoot at the press, whatever. And the 'world comminuty' doesn't hold them accountable for those actions, other than 'condemning their actions'. Ooooohhh, that's strong.

When all is said and done, Obama will walk out on the stage with his new VP choice, some strange white guy with red hair. He will look at the audience, and as the red-haired man raises his head, he begins to sing as Barack yells out 'You've been Rickrolled, beyoches!" Hillary has a heart attack, the MSM is silent for once, and Markos Kosawhatever from DailyKos is never heard from again.

I guess Obama's vacation wasn't all play. http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13742

I can liken this choice to my search for an assistant manager. Before I bought my store, I worked for the previous owner. So I was the 'VP". We played well off each other. It was his store, but I treated it as if it were my own. I didn't disagree with him in front of the other employees (unless it was minor stuff), and when we did disagree, he listened to my side. Even when we agreed, I often played devil's advocate tossing out contrary views and situations, to make sure we thought things thru. If he made a decision that was contrary to what I thought, I still implimented his plans as if they were my own. After purchasing the store from him when he retired, I searched a long time for my Number 2 person. A previous employee was my main choice, but I couldn't afford to bring him back. I never settled on any one person to date, although I have used Juddling as a sounding board for my ideas in the past. I love Juddling (he IS my brother, after all), but I would need someone more complimentary to me. We are too much alike (except that I am better looking). So for right now, my pick would be 'none of the above'.

Just a question: Obama has said that he won't take money from PACS and the eeeevil oil companies. We all know that he has been getting lots of donations from eeeevil oil company empoyees, but what i want to know is why are PACS bad, but partisan advocacy groups like MoveOn.Org (really, a PAC) good? Just asking, because they have donated over $200,000 to Obama, and if that isn't enough for influence, I am not surte what is. http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php...;cmte=C00341396 And of the top 20 PACS, 16 of them donated much more to Dems than to Repubs. http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/toppacs.php Maybe it is only that SOME PACS are bad (you know, the ones that donate to Republicans), and others are good. Also notice how most of them are unions or other similar associations.

If Obama can be forgiven for forgetting that there are only 50 states, then maybe he should cut mcCain some slack, eh?

OK, time for a quiz. in the last year, how many times have Obama and Mccain appeared on the cover of Time? Obama: McCain:

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 21, 2008 -> 04:29 PM) Well, that's better than the "I'm a POW and you can't be mean to me!" they tried earlier in the day. Why not? We all hear how Obama is black and we can't be mean to him. because it would be racist.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 21, 2008 -> 12:23 PM) <!--quoteo(post=1723336:date=Aug 21, 2008 -> 09:49 AM:name=lostfan)-->QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 21, 2008 -> 09:49 AM) <!--quotec-->...are we saying that Obama surrogates post in the Filibuster? Come on guys, these 2 threads are so much better better when people talk about smart people stuff, and not this kind of bulls***. Oh, and here's the ad out today from the campaign on the same issue. From the McCain campaign: “Does a guy who made more than $4 million last year, just got back from vacation on a private beach in Hawaii and bought his own million-dollar mansion with the help of a convicted felon really want to get into a debate about houses? Does a guy who worries about the price of arugula and thinks regular people ‘cling’ to guns and religion in the face of economic hardship really want to have a debate about who’s in touch with regular Americans?”

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Aug 21, 2008 -> 04:02 PM) this is bad idea t ask for a diagnoses. I speak from experience. Early last year, I was given some medication from my doctor that really messed with my stomach. Then I started to have odd symptoms and "normal' things seems unusual. I freaked out. I had myself diagnosed with everything from acid reflux to several deadly diseases including leukemia, pancreatic cancer, lymphoma, and who knows what else.. I had myself convinced I would be dead in less than 6 months. I should NEVER have gone to WebMD. In the end, it was nothing. The medication severely messed up my system, specifically my liver, and it took almost a 10 months to fully return to normal. I'm still alive and healthy, though WAY over weight. lol so, maybe not so healthy. lol He's making fun of me for determining guilt with the crazy terrorist-in-training over in the filibuster without benefit of the court documents or being a lawyer. But I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night! QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Aug 21, 2008 -> 04:05 PM) In my estimation you will soon see the head of an alien pushing itself out from your belly..... Or this.

QUOTE (JFields27 @ Aug 20, 2008 -> 08:06 PM) That was pretty good from the roast .. anyways lets see who replies to this. I have an essay to do(pretty short) and one of the options is what is the greatest challenge your(my) generation will face? What would anyone here say, Global Warming, Economy, Social Security? would those be safe bets. The other part of the question is what is your ideas for dealing with the issue, i have no clue what to put for that. The polarization of everything. never seems to be a middle gorund anymore, in poitics, fandom, whatever. As for what to do, U have no idea.

Well, there is at one liberal hoping that Lieberman is NOT picked for the Veep spot. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard...if-lieberman-vp

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...TRO08/808120367

QUOTE (Texsox @ Aug 20, 2008 -> 06:55 PM) I am taking the story at it's word. He lowered his hands. Do you seriously keep your hands on the dash or raised when the cops pull you over? I would think resting your hands on your lap would be a normal movement. Why weren't the cops in a position to see his hands? I don't see where they mention he was out of his vehicle. I read the article three times. They do mention carrying a weapon, which to mean means he was carrying it in his car, not physically carrying it. Like a trucker is carrying dynamite. You could be right, but again, taking the article word for word, I believe they did not know he possessed any weapons until they saw it in the car. I read where law enforcement could not link him to any terrorist groups, but it seems you have. Perhaps you can make a judgement by reading one newspaper article, but I refuse to second guess the judge who probably reviewed more material than what was reported here. OK tex, lets take the story at it's word. " was observed carrying a loaded AK-47 semi-automatic assault rifle near the west side of the park" Not driving, carrying. "Zorkot was dressed in dark clothing and had his face painted black when officers located him on Sept. 8, 2007, inside his 2007 Ford Escape". Ok, now he is in his car. "Officers approached the vehicle, which proceeded to pull out of the parking space and head northbound toward the park's entrance" Ok, now he tried to get away. We don't know if he was actively running or not, but since the officers could tell his car was running before he took off, they were probably close by and easily within his sight. "Dearborn police were able to block the vehicle in before it was able to leave the park." Stoped him before he got away, good! "Zorkot opened the driver's side door, but remained inside the vehicle". OK, I don't know about down there, but up here, even for a traffic ticket, they tell you to stay in your car. not to open the door, not to get out, but stay in your car. "You guys are always harassing me.", he says. Ah, getting confrontational with police. Always a winning move. Especially when you are wearing camo face paint. Nothing too suspicious there. "During the confrontation, officers observed Zorkot lower his right hand toward the center console, which was out of view. According to police reports, officers feared Zorkot may have been reaching for a weapon and grabbed his left wrist while ordering him to exit the vehicle." A reasonable fear by the officer from a confrontational suspect who isn't behaving right. Notice the order to then exit the vehicle. "An officer at the scene observed the AK-47 in the vehicle's backseat, and alerted her fellow officers that the Dearborn resident was armed. Zorkot was then forcibly removed from the vehicle through the driver's side door — although he initially refused to let go of the door." With the suspect appearing to be dangerous, and an unsecured firearm there, officers did the correct thing in immobilizing him,making sure he could not use the gun or cause any harm to himself or others. He did not listen. "When he refused to release the door, officers struck Zorkot's arm once with a plastic flashlight, however, the Dearborn resident refused to let go." Stubborn, wasn't he? "A Taser was then deployed,......When Zorkot refused to comply with the officers' commands, he was stunned again and taken into custody". I kept expecting to see "Dont tase me, bro!". But sadly, no. As for linking him to a terrorist group, it only says "he has not been identified ", not that they COULDN'T identify him as belonging to one. And does one have to belong to a group to be a terrorist? I missed that memo. Oh, and yes, when I am pulled over, I keep my hands in plain sight, and don't do anything they haven't told me to do. it has been a while since I have been stopped, thankfully.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Aug 20, 2008 -> 05:32 PM) Thats probably what happened. He gets no jail time, but is on probation and if he gets busted again he is going to prison. I would also go out on a limb here and guess law enforcement is going to be really following up on this guy during his probationary period. I wouldn't be surprised if the government tries to get deeper into this, kind of like they do with white supremacist terrorist groups in the US; this guy being lose, and watched, could actually help in prosecuting other members of the terrorist network. I really hope you are right. because if he goes out and blows up a cafe, there is going to be hell to pay for more than one government official.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Aug 20, 2008 -> 04:50 PM) 1)So much of this is conjecture. 2) He moved his right wrist towards the center console where the cops worried he may have had a gun. Where was he suppose to lower his right hand too? There was no mention if a gun was there. Again, if he was walking around the park with a gun, they would have known he was armed before seeing the weapon in the backseat. So I am not agreeing he ever walked around the park if the weapon. (I also would not be surprised he did), but it just seems if he had been observed with the weapon they would have approached him in a much different manner and assumed he was armed. 3) How much jail time? A month? Ten years? And what have other defendants received for say kicking the squad car door, twisting away, punching a cop? I don't know what other people have received and for what level of resist, so it is difficult to say he should have received this. Perhaps NSS could comment better, but I assume that 90% of the arrests involve some form of resist. I assume that not everyone puts on their own handcuffs and walks to the car. 4)Your question was should he have received jail time and I am still of the opinion we don't have the facts necessary to make that judgment but this seems within the realm of reason. I also think he he was a white Christian with say Pro-Life pamphlets no one would blink that he received probation. I see you added. that quote. 5) What that seems to me is the cop is looking at this wack job in face paint and getting nervous, they see a weapon and freak out and grab him and start pulling him out of the car. It doesn't say if they ever ordered him out of the car. OK, let' see here. So many things in that post i want to get the straight. 1) if we are going to start arguing semantics and conjecture with every damn story that gets posted here, there will be no discussions at all. At some point, we have to, at least for discussions sake, take the story at its word. 2) The story said he was seen walking around with a gun. WHY the officers didn't initially approach him with their guns out, I have no idea. As for the reaction to him moving towards the consol, you must not have been pulled over in a long time, at least not bycops who didn't know you. You always keep your hands where the oficers can see them, ESPECIALLY if you are wearing camo face paint. 3) How much jail time I don't care. the fact he got NONE is what pissed me off. 4) Take your scenerio and put it about 10 years ago, and maybe throw in a few abortion clinic pamphlets and you would be dead wrong that no one would blink. Even if it happened today, if he openly supported abortion killers, the Pro-Choice people and NOW would be on this faster than Homer Simpson on a doughnut. 5) Semantics here again. It doesn't say if they ordered him out of the car before they grabbed his wrist. They grabbed it fearing he was reaching for a weapon. While holding his wrist, they noticed a weapon and then ordered him out, and when he refused, dragged him out. Since he did NOT get jail time, I hope he gave up something good. But his medical career could be alot more difficult now. Assuming the school doesn't kick him out for this, just imagine him trying to get malpractice insurance with these charges on his records. That is one bill I wouldn't want to see. And with people googling doctors nowadays, I wonder how many times his name will pop up with this info when people are checking out the new doc in town! I hope this follows him around forever.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Aug 20, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) There is too much we do not know before judging the judgment. First off we allow for gray areas and a sliding scale with crimes. Resisting arrest for example. He grabbed the door handle. That doesn't seem nearly as offensive as taking a swing, etc. Not being there, perhaps it was as much a reaction to being yanked from the car. I have seen, and I am certain others have, blooper reels and COPs episodes where people are dropped on their heads while getting pulled by police. It could have been as simple as that, we really don't know. We do not know what deals were struck with the prosecution. He could have agreed to plead guilty in exchange for that recommendation. He may have provided some information on others. We just do not know. In Texas, I can have a AK47 in my backseat without any problem. If after the dust settled and adrenalin stopped flowing, all I did was grab the door to my car as I was being dragged, trying to save my face from eating pavement, no, I doubt I would get any jail time. What clouds this is his thoughts and beliefs. And at least in 2008 we still convict and sentence people primarily on what they did, not on what they may have been thinking. I do know this, if this guy still has his rights, then all the good people still have theirs. When we start stripping people of their rights based on what they believe in, that gives the government way to much power in my book. Tex, note the timeline. He was stopped, verbally sparred with the police, moved his hand to the center consol where officers feared a weapon, his wrist was grabbed and he was ordered out, another officer spotted the Ak-47 and THEn they forcibly removed him from the vehicle. He resisted more, was whacked with a flashlite and a taser, and STILL refused to comply. So, he didn't just simply grab a door, he reacted in a menacing way, refused to follow instructions and was combative to the police. trust me, I KNOW that some police abuse thier power and authority. But this guy deserved jail time. Yes, he has rights. The cops didn't stop him for being Muslim, they had probably cause. If he passed background checks, he can legally own a gun. he CAN'T be walking around the park with it. And if the gun is not readily visible to the officer, you are supposed to inform them that you have a firearm, on you if you have a carry permit or in the trunk if a rifle, etc. Perhaps as you hinted he may have struck a deal. if so, it had better have been a juicy one to avoid jail time. And I certainly hope that he is subject to lots of searches and suspicion for a long time.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Aug 20, 2008 -> 09:54 AM) I love the Constitution, and there doesn't seem to be an asterisks on the Bill of Rights. The AK 47 is no more deadly a rifle as any other semi-automatic. You have to pull the trigger each time you want to discharge the weapon. Same as a innocent looking Remington. The article is unclear that he was ever observed holding the rifle. They say they saw it in the backseat and *then* knew he was armed. Based on that interpretation, it doesn't seem as if he was walking around. But I respect those that read the article and believe he was. I also support the right to free speech. There are ways of supporting terrorism that are legal. Sad, but true. Once we start restricting anti-government speech, we also restrict the "good stuff" we agree with. Dangerous territory. To be accurate, I support our Constitution, our right to arms and our right to free speech. The end result may be someone I do not agree with is using those rights. But that is a far different reality then saying anyone here is supporting this guy. So do you think he should have served jail time, or was probation appropriate? As I stated earlier, just the resisting arrest should have warrented jail time. The rest would just be mitigating factors into making it longer. Felony arms possession is also jail time (which it said he was charged with). In gun-friendly Texas, if you were pulled over with an AK-47 in your backseat and resisted arrest, would you be out of jail?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 20, 2008 -> 06:34 AM) FWIW, the AK-47 he had was the same as any other hunting rifle. Semi-automatic. It just "looks more scary" to people who don't know anything about guns. It wasn't a "machine gun," as its been referred to here. They sound scary as well. Very loud and intimidating. As for it being a semi-automatic, just remember that the press generally doesn't know beans about guns. It could be a shotgun and they would call it a semi-automatic.