EvilMonkey

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 01:52 PM) Does anyone have a reference for the "the average teacher in chicago makes $74k" number? I'm going through the BLS tables, it's a nightmare to figure out, but they list something like 200k teachers in the chicago area and show an average teacher salary of $56k, with a wide distribution depending on specialty. http://www.ctunet.com/grievances/text/2007....pdf?1294199486 Says that FIRST year teachers in 2012 were making over $50k, so the average has to be higher that $56k. (see Appendix A)

Under the previous contract teachers paid less than 2% towards their health insurance.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 11:32 AM) You could say the same thing of administration's actions; forcing teachers to play the only card they had (withholding labor) by only offering hugely unfair contract terms and refusing to improve classroom circumstances is not particularly noble. "Think of the children!" cuts both ways. There are too many teachers with a martyr complex. Talk as if it is some noble deed they do to teach and that they do it for the kids, then b**** endlessly about pay. Don't pretend what you do is akin to a holy calling and then play hardball for your contract. Are you thinking of the children or your bottom line? neither one is wrong, just be upfront about it.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 11:30 AM) Ah, yes, everyone should be as pathetic as me in my working conditions. I thought it was all 'shared sacrifice' and 'everyone must have some skin in the game'? Why should teachers be immune from market forces that effect everyone else? And it isn't like they are being paid pennies. A first year teacher with just a BA, under the previous contract, gets almost $45k plus benefits. I am sure in some locations, that is no where near enough. But in other I am sure it is quite fine. http://www.ctunet.com/grievances/text/2007....pdf?1294199486 pg 126 edit Sorry, $45k was 2008 salaries, 2010 was $52.5. Still pretty good.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Sep 7, 2012 -> 06:36 PM) We weren't taught to grow up and look at what our neighbors had an compare ourselves to them based on those objects. We were taught to have the things we have because we needed them/wanted them...AND could afford them. A lesson that's sadly lost on the majority of this nation. I lived this part. I didn't realize it until one time I said to my dad "Tom's got a pool, they built a room addition on the back just for him and his parents bought him a car. What do they have that we don't?". And my dad replied "credit card debt". I had not much of a clue what he meant so I read up on it and figured it out. Then it made sense why instead of an Izod in high school, I got the damn Sears dragon. I didn't get Levis, I got K-mart stretch denim. I try to pass this knowledge onto my kids, sadly not sure it succeeds all to well some days.

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Sep 6, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) Just want the same metrics used in measuring. Net jobs created since BO in office is 300,000. Why do you say 4 million? because it starts from the summer of 2010 low point? GMAFB. The narrative is lovely, really. But who is lying? GM fixed? Where did the gov't sell the rest of their stock and how much did we lose on it? How is ALLY doing? How is GM Europe doing? How much did GM steal from the taxpayers by writing off futures profits against past losses? Yeah all fixed. Just wait until they change it to 'jobs created or saved'. Yeah, right.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2012 -> 08:58 AM) Depends on how you define fixed. Sales haven't recovered to the pre-recession levels, but they have been steadily recovering overall. Blue bars mark recessions. (I do like how the manufactured debt ceiling crisis actually shows up in there) Wonder what that chart would look like if you removed Ford sales, since they didn't take any of Uncle Sugar's money. Or does Obama get credit for 'fixing' them, too?

Oh, I am sorry, must have mistyped a few of the words from the story. Here is the correct version, with link. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239...absentee+ballot

“DOING THE RIGHT THING” — BY STOPPING SOMEONE FROM VOTING DEMOCRAT: Bonnie Pollak, a Republican, weighed her options. Should she be loyal to her spouse, respect his legal right and mail the ballot? Or remain faithful to her deeply held beliefs and suppress his vote? “It was a real dilemma,” says Ms. Pollak, 58 years old, a student in a doctoral program who lives in Manhattan. “I decided to do the right thing.” Ms. Pollak threw the ballot away. Friends don't let friends, or spouses, vote Democrat.

Good thing teachers unions don't carry guns..... http://reason.com/archives/2012/08/31/poli...-while-bullying

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 02:01 PM) It's turned into a rock and a hard place situation. I also think administrators make too much and would help cut the fat. But teachers need to be compensated for their service to the community. And if they aren't good at what they do, which is teach, not raise, kids...they need to be let go. Pretty simple. I think that most people would agree with the words you wrote there. The problems are what each person thinks is fair compensation. When I was a kid the teachers were thought of being paid less but that they had good retirement plans, summers off and so on. Now they make more than the average person in many places AND have a better retirement plan, and when they ask for more, it infuriates many people. Hence the difference in opinion as to what is fair compensation. When it comes to getting rid of bad teachers, the unions would pay lip service to that ideal, but in reality would fight every firing tooth and nail if they can. They would also fight any attempt to pay good teachers more. On one hand I can understand it, as it is hard to evaluate a good teacher strictly on performances. If a kid doesn't want to learn, they are not gonna learn. But the unions would fight any kind of performance measure and instead want to base pay on seniority and education levels. You don't need a masters to teach second grade. Or drivers ed.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 01:18 PM) this is just incredibly hypocritical. you don't have a problem with certain professions doing exactly what you described, but when teachers do it - uproar. and if you want to make as much as teachers do, why didn't you become a teacher? if money is so important to you. Or do something else besides what you're doing? That's what I don't get. You rail against teachers for taking it upon themselves to protect their own self-interest, but you won't do it for yourself. You just want the big bad government to step in and do it for you. As for this post, I have no clue what the hell you are rambling on about. Teachers should do what they can to protect themselves, and so should the taxpayers that foot the f-ing bill.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 01:18 PM) tell that to SS, who said that taxing the rich wouldn't solve the problem. It won't, even if you tax them at 100% You still need more. But yet with the class warfare practiced by the liberals, they make it seem as if taxing the rich will cure all, if they just pay 'their fair share'. And everone elses share as well.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 01:11 PM) Im not going to get involved in a race to the bottom, I congratulate teachers on unionizing so that they can get better deals through leverage. That is called good negotiating, even if I cant or dont do it. As for other professions making more, I dont really care about that either. As for taxes and where the money is going, I agree entirely that it needs to be reassessed. I would just say that even I, someone who isnt a very big teacher union supporter, would argue that there are places with a lot more fat that could be cut to start. I agree that there are other places to cut. But every time you bring them up, you always get "but that is just a drop in the bucket'. Well, the drops will add up eventually.

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 01:03 PM) Yeah Alpha, you selfish son of a b****. LOL. Why would you include health,pension sick days they can bank, etc....That doesn't count. Hey, my mother worked in a school district for 25 years. And while her benefits were no where near as good as the ones the teachers got, she was able to carry over sick and personal days unlimited, until the last contract. She had enough days that she took off a whole year. I don't like the rules, she also thought they were bad, but hey, she played by the rules, you would be stupid to give it back. Or would you be patriotic?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 12:57 PM) Who cares about the bolded, a degree is a piece of paper, it really doesnt mean jack in a lot of professions. For the most part its nothing more than a barrier of entry. Fireman can die on the job saving someone else. If that isnt deserving of high pay, then I dont even know what the point is anymore. The reason people arent championing more pay for teachers is many people dont necessarily think that 1) teachers are doing a good job or 2) that teachers make a huge impact. Or they see many teachers making more than them and get mad when they strike for raises, when they themselves haven't had a raise in years, or are unemployed. At some point the bank runs dry. And many people DO pay more for teachers. As I posted above there are some teachers paid damn well. With all the hoopla in Wisconsin last year, the teachers forgot that on average they made more than most of the other residents of the state. And got good benefits. Is it jealousy? Sure, on some part that plays in. On the other, you have those that want to know why everyone just 'won't pitch in and happily accept higher taxes', but then want certain groups of public employees exempt from the pains and cuts everyone else endures.

Statistics about JOLIET WEST HIGH SCHOOL in JOLIET, IL Average teacher salary: $54,652 Average administration staff salary: $107,383 Dollars spent per student: $11,566 You can fix the admin number, I have no problems with that. I have seen what some of the district supers make and it is astronomical. Reform that as well.

Rockdale, Joliet's poor next door neighbor has nice teacher salaries as well. Average Teacher Salary in Rockdale School District 84 The average teacher salary in Rockdale School District 84 is $56,092. Grade Level Average 10th percentile 25th percentile Median 75th percentile 90th percentile Pre-school $29,350 $19,930 $22,900 $27,970 $34,110 $40,410 Kindergarten $47,800 $27,360 $34,670 $42,890 $59,050 $76,870 Elementary $63,860 $36,450 $45,290 $60,420 $81,490 $99,340 Middle school $64,920 $38,540 $46,660 $62,320 $81,590 $98,810 High school $74,530 $42,210 $54,700 $72,360 $93,200 $113,870 Seems like the pre-school teachers bringing the average down.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 11:55 AM) what does that have to do with anything? that's just selfish sour grapes. how bout YOU get a new job and stop b****ing. I like this job. And is has decreased only because this job pays less than the one I previously had before the business closed. You need to pick a point and stay with it. First they are underpaid, then they are underpaid compared to athletes, and even the average numbers you posted to supposedly support your facts show that on average they are in the top tier in the state for income. And those numbers didnt' include generous benefits.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 11:48 AM) Lets look at the WHOLE country shall we? 3%. How much have athlete salaries increased in the last 20 years? Mine has DECREASED 15%. I don't care about athletes, and quit moving the goalposts. Oh, and I bet that $56k didn't factor in generous benefits either, which I don't get.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 11:42 AM) do you seriously think teachers make 100k a year? are you insane? Average Teacher Salary in Joliet Township High School District 204 The average teacher salary in Joliet Township High School District 204 is $56,092. Grade Level Average 10th percentile 25th percentile Median 75th percentile 90th percentile Pre-school $29,350 $19,930 $22,900 $27,970 $34,110 $40,410 Kindergarten $47,800 $27,360 $34,670 $42,890 $59,050 $76,870 Elementary $63,860 $36,450 $45,290 $60,420 $81,490 $99,340 Middle school $64,920 $38,540 $46,660 $62,320 $81,590 $98,810 High school $74,530 $42,210 $54,700 $72,360 $93,200 $113,870 The high school out here does pretty good, even if it doesn't reach 6 figures in average. And there is a guy at Joliet West who makes almost $150k (although he also does drivers ed and coaches football).

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Sep 4, 2012 -> 10:50 AM) When does it turn into an argument for respect? When I was in HS, my district had the longest tenured teachers in the state and I believe it was top 3 in salaries. Those teachers went on strike for a higher percentage pay raise. That has nothing to do with wanting more money, it has to do with respect concerning education level, length of tenure in the district and where the schools were in educating the kids (I believe we were near the top in test scores at the time). They were equating money with respect, so it has everything to do with money. What do they want, statues? Parades? If the district is THAT good as you say, they already get respect from the local parents, and people seek out districts like that to move into (if they can afford it).

WHen people talk about hanging bankers for the sub prime mortgage mess, they should remember this little tidbit first. http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/03/with-lan...ican-americans/

QUOTE (Reddy @ Sep 3, 2012 -> 01:11 PM) exactly. you're a typical selfish republican. Democrats see there's a National Income Crisis, and try and find a way to solve it. They can't cut defense and war-spending or else they'll get beat in the next election, because the GOP will label them anti-american traitor Al-Qaedas. They don't cut education spending because that's idiotic. They don't cut arts spending because they recognize the value and the income and the JOBS that the arts generate. Their answer is to SPREAD THE RESPONSIBILITY to ALL AMERICANS by raising taxes, instead of targeting one group and making them suffer, as the GOP would do by cutting things like the aforementioned education and arts departments. The increase in taxes is NOMINAL for the majority of americans, but it should be SIGNIFICANT for the wealthiest. OR they need to try and close the loopholes that let corporations and millionaires get out of paying their fair share. Here's the bottom line. I'm willing to help the government get out of this mess. Republicans aren't. Who's more patriotic now? Then donate more of your money to the government. nobody is stopping you. You are selfish in your own way as you just don't want to be the only one to do so, so you want to make everyone else pay as well. Just pay more and stfu if you feel so strongly about it. And fyi, the only thing Dems DO cut is education and police and fire. Just look at what they target first when they do't get their tax increases. Always the scare line "if we don't get this tax increase, we'll have to lay off 100 teachers/police/firefighters'. Never that they will have to lay off half their assistants or cut from any other office, they always go there first.

QUOTE (Zoogz @ Sep 2, 2012 -> 04:41 PM) From the same link: So, almost half of the personal taxes that go to the U.S. Government (since there is no federal sales tax nor federal property tax) are payroll tax. In essence, this is being borne by only those who make 150k and less... just sayin'. Are you sure you read that right? It says (3) The only tax analyzed here is the federal individual income tax, which is responsible for about 25 percent of the nation's taxes paid (at all levels of government). Federal income taxes are much more progressive than payroll taxes, which are responsible for about 20 percent of all taxes paid (at all levels of government), and are more progressive than most state and local taxes (depending upon the economic assumption made about property taxes and corporate income taxes). Says payroll taxes are 20% of taxes paid, not over half. Also left out in your comments was : So the evil rich people already got taxed on the money, it just doesn't show in these numbers, giving a misleading figure.