Y2HH

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 10:17 AM) http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/06/19/...t-on-the-brink/ At this point, I think the question is, is it worth saving? It's a sad fall for a once mighty city, but based on how the very foundation of Detroit was built solely on the back of the manufacturing industry, which has all but collapsed in the US, I think the reason for the fall is more-so because it's outlived it's usefulness in the modern day than for any other reason. In this case, I don't think it has anything to do with which party politicians ran that specific city, I think it would be having these same problems no matter who was in charge...as regardless of politics, the industry Detroit relied on in every regard has vanished, and Detroit has/will vanish along with it. Chicago, on the other hand, has fallback industries, such as a booming financial district, a booming business district, etc. Detroit really had no such fallback of necessary scale.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 11:03 PM) It looks cool. I don't need the space for anything else. It's also a shortcut to the clock/alarm and it acts as a battery meter. ...and your battery is almost dead.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 09:40 PM) You should look into custom icon packs. Why the s***ty analog clock that takes up 70% of your screen real estate when you have the f***ing time, in numbers, at the top of the screen? Silly, not to mention useless redundancy. Get rid of the stupid clock, you already have the time, in an easier to read format on the SAME screen. All that wasted screen real-estate could be used for something ... you know, useful, instead of regurgitating the same thing multiple times on the same screen for no reason. I notice that same crap in the screen shot above yours...two clocks. Why? This accomplishes nothing and wastes space, artificially creating the need for folders, or multiple screens you don't need. No wonder why you need a 7" screen @ 4K resolution. You waste most of it with information you ALREADY have, in superior formats.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 09:53 PM) You can disable those apps on Android and they won't run (Android 4.0 and above). They'll just stay there frozen. They take up space, but that's all they'll do. Still annoying.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 06:48 PM) For me, I rooted to get free wifi hot spot (this isn't free on Sprint), be able to do a full system backup (i.e., nandroid), backup apps, underclock/overclock the kernel, try different ROMs and kernels, get the latest version of Android, use hacked apps (e.g. I had free Sunday ticket live streaming for a while a year or so ago), and simply have full control of my phone. I don't want touchwiz or sense UI and would rather have less crap on my phone. The footprint on something like Cyanogen or AOKP is much smaller than the stock ROM which will also give you more internal storage space. And I like some of the tweaks in those ROMs that you won't get on stock, like being able to skip tracks in your music player by simply holding down the volume keys. That being said, you could have a completely fine experience with Android using a stock ROM. I agree, I just with more Android "flagship" models would debut with stock ROM options, without the necessity of hacking/rooting. I hardly trust jailbreaking iOS, or the general hacker community at large, the bigger it gets, the harder it is to trust, because someone sneaking something through the cracks becomes easier and easier the larger the bubble grows. And while I'm not an Android user, I can speak for iOS, and repeat what Android using friends of mine have said, and it's pretty much sums up the whole jailbreak/rooting community for me: It's fun, it gives you more control, but there is an inherent loss of trust AND it's not as stable as stock, and never will be. And I agree with not having to keep stuff on your phone you don't want, I hate that Apple does it, and it baffles me that it's an allowed practice on Android, even with Google's own applications. At least Apple doesn't pretend it's not a walled garden, you know what you're getting. You should have the right to set application defaults AND remove anything you don't want on ANY phone you buy, INCLUDING iOS.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 06:47 PM) Right, the things that made me stick it out with jailbreaking are things I can already do with my HTC One. I can replace the messaging, phone, launcher, themes, keyboard, etc. Messages/Contacts+ is incredibly similar to the feature I liked in BiteSMS (pop-up in front of current app when message comes in) and I've learned that the notification center works so well I don't even mind the stock messaging app. Seems like, for now, I'll stay away from rooting. Maybe if updates to Android start getting really late I'll root sometime later, but I feel like I'm not missing out on anything. HTC's Sense and Samsung's TouchWiz have pluses and minuses. I don't hate Sense but I like my Nova Launcher better, but the important thing to me was that they both work really smoothly. Lots of S4 users complaining about out-of-box performance lagging, which was my experience with TouchWiz. Many others love it, of course. I digress. When it comes to cellular phone brands and OS versions, hacking, jail breaking or rooting, you'll never get everyone to agree. But that's a good thing, choice is good to have. It forces the hand of the successful who decide to sit on success. It's happening to Apple now, and they're starting to take steps to rectify that. And the same thing would happen to Android or WM8 if they had no competition.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 06:34 PM) I like Nova because it's a bit more like stock Android and I can squeeze more s*** onto each screen, plus the subtle things I can customize. I like the regular look of Androids (for now, at least) so I didn't feel like going for a launcher that had a totally different UI or anything. On that note, can someone tell me why I would want to root? I've read LifeHacker's rooting guide and "10 apps that will convince you to root" and I'm still unconvinced. While I love just playing with s*** like I did with my jailbroken iPhone, I like my phone as it is, don't think it's slow, am not angry about the bloatware (I use ATT visual voicemail). I also don't like how it is impossible to hide from the manufacturer that I did the root, which basically means the warranty is voided if I understand it correctly. Is there something I'm missing? No, you're pretty much spot on, it's essentially the Android version of jailbreaking. After having used a up-to-date jail broken iPhone the last few months, I somewhat agree with you, while some of its nice, the only app I still care about is Bitesms, the rest of its nice and all, but not necessary. It's also not as stable, and I'm very conservative as to what I install/mess with. I'd expect a similar rooted Android experience, of the hacks I read about, even the stable versions of these roots/roms/etc aren't as stable as stock Android. Of course this is merely opinion based on what I've read, which is why I'm so interested in attempting a test run of Android, but I want it stock, where I can then install small changes such as a launcher, without having to deal with Samsung, or HTCs "skin", which is more the just skin.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 05:30 PM) What will happen eventually is that someone will misuse these programs in a way that gets everyone focused on it and that will drive change. That's why FISA exists in the first place, because a certain U.S. president turned the entire US Surveillance apparatus against the opposing party. Personally I kinda wish the "47% of Americans are moochers" video had been found out through something like this. That'd do it right away. If they're collecting Yottabytes of data, that would mean basically everything that has ever been recorded and accessible via internet is going to wind up stored on those servers, which means it really is only a matter of time before something like that video pops up on someone's screen while sorting through that data. If they sent it upwards to the point a political appointee saw it...well there you go. Can't argue with this line of thought. What's truly scary is the thought that this data can be stolen, not just by nefarious hackers, but by employees or contractors that decide they're doing it for the betterment of the people, to send a message, or simply because they are actual traitors. And if not now, based on the storage we're talking about, it can happen sometime down the road such as a data dump to the public at large ala the likes of Julian Assange. Also, the government is pretty notorious to be slow in updating their systems/software, and if they're encryption is bulletproof now, a day will come that it won't be. I'm not at all surprised by what they're doing, I knew it was going on without needing to be told. What scares me is the fact they're storing it, or planning to store it long term. To be sure, it doesn't surprise me at all, being in the industry I'm in, but it does scare me.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) I mean look, I agree that sadly a good number of Americans don't care about this stuff when they should. All i'm saying is that you're making the argument that no one cares and that's just not true. Every time something like this happens, I hope it becomes a catalyst event that changes the way people vote in the future, but it never does, and perhaps it can't...who are the alternatives, if anyone, and would they be any better or do anything differently? Just seems like another smoking gun story, trailing a long line of smoking gun stories, when the gun has essentially been smoking for decades, and nobody cares, I mean, when the boy cries wolf enough, people stop listening. I think the majority have stopped long ago.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 02:55 PM) Saying people don't care about their privacy doesn't make it true. People are outraged by this, and justifiably so. If people didn't care, this wouldn't be on the news. And why do you keep saying this is fake outrage? What evidence do you have that it's not genuine? The world has changed over the last 10 years. So have people's opinions about this stuff. We'll see how outraged they actually are come election day. This is nothing more than story of the week reactionary outrage that will be long forgotten when it matters most. For every one person that's actually outraged, such as you or I, that WILL exercise their ability to change things come election day, there are thousands that will do exactly as they always do, and re-elect the same people that did this to them. And then they'll feign outrage again shortly after.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 02:39 PM) You're nuts. They might not know the name but they'll know something about the NSA scandal. Certainly more people know about it now than a few weeks ago. And who gives a s*** if only 1000 people in the country know? It doesn't make it right. I didn't say it was right, but where was the mass outrage when they passed the law, multiple times no less, that made this PERFECTLY LEGAL? And of that minimal amount of outrage, which equates to about the same level of outrage we have right now, what came of it? Oh, that's right, the re-election of the same exact people. There is only so much fake outrage I can handle about this sort of thing, and this is the icing on the cake for me. Nobody cares about privacy, so let's not start pretending we do now.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 01:56 PM) Here I thought my grandfather was dead. Instead, he faked his death and has continued on posting on Soxtalk.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 01:20 PM) We did need the national dialogue because no one knew how much the government was digging and who they were targeting. You're glossing over that point and it's pretty important. 4 weeks ago had you asked Americans who the government was looking in on i'm guessing 90% (all of the non conspiracy theorists) would have said brown people/muslims and people who communicate with people in muslim countries. They had no idea the government was spying on your 85 year old white grandma from Kansas. That's a new discovery that we found out about because of this guy disclosing classified information. I think you're dreaming and need to wake up from this fantasy. If you walked down the street right now and asked random people about Snowden and the NSA, you'd be lucky if 2 in 10 knew anything about it, and you'd be even luckier if either person knew more than, "Yea, I heard about something like that..." However, if you ask them to name the cast of Jersey Shore, or who the current Bachlorette, or who just had a baby in hollywood, I'm sure 8/10 would know those answers. ...and that's why I maintain, this "dialogue" doesn't matter...and in a few weeks, it'll be long forgotten.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 11:42 AM) I don't know that this guy is a savior , but I don't think he's the worst person in the world either. And at least he's created a national dialogue about the issue. As to the bolded, I'm not sure that the majority of Americans realized their government was creating ginormous databases of everyone, not just people suspected of having terrorist leanings (at minimum) or frankly people that are brown and muslim (at maximum). Yes, the Patriot Act has expanded the role of warrantless wire taps, but I also assumed there had to be SOME argument as to how that warrantless tap was needed for national security. Literally the only reason they have now is "everyone is a terrorist." Here is my issue with the whole "he created a national dialog" excuse...it's just that, an excuse to pretend we care for a little while. We didn't need this guy to create a national dialog that should have (and already did exist), it's just that nobody cared, and nobody spoke about it because it wasn't the story of the week. And they don't care now, either, they're just pretending to care while it's generating viewers/clicks, depending on the medium. As for the "people", they don't care about their privacy anyway, and they haven't for a while now. They can pretend too, but they don't, as these same people laugh at me when I tell them I don't like to use too many of one companies internet connected applications because I'm concerned about my private information. You don't really have to spy on these people in the first place...all you have to do is offer them a free app, or phone, or something on the Internet that's "free", and they'll just hand it all over, without knowing it, or worse, even caring. The political discourse in this country has become little more than day care for the uncaring. When they passed the Patriot Act, they did it while the nation was in a state of panic...fine, so when we all had the chance to calm our asses down and reassess the situation and the necessity of the law, as written, what did we do? Nothing. Actually, worse than nothing, because we collectively watched as they expanded the scope of the law, and passed it again. And what did we do when they took what was bad and made it worse? We re-elected the same people in the senate/congress at about a 90% clip, if not more. And what will we do now when we discover that *gasp*, they passed that very law which basically made this legal? Nothing. So, when it comes to this new dialog...nobody cares. And in a few weeks, or months, it'll be forgotten about. And come election time, they'll re-elect the same exact people again. Until the next scandal...then we can pretend we care again...at least for a few weeks.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 06:27 PM) I should have said "What WE didn't notice". I thought the OS disc was tied to a key, but after I texted our TECH guy at work to find out what can be done, he informed me of the sticker, in which I showed my friend (he was in the room w/ me while I was texting and trying to figure it out), but he lost his Vista disc anyway, so we thought it didn't matter. It wasn't until after I bought the computer from him that I realized I probably had a Vista disc from one of our other computers, and that I found out all those discs are the same, it's the STICKER that matters. I COULD tell even more of the story, in which HE actually looks like a real jerk here, but I don't have any reason to make him look bad, the whole point of the story was not about "who is right here", it was just the surprisingly laziness of some people when it comes to technology, even if it costs them money in the end. This is mostly why I'm paid what I'm paid. Because people suck at technology. Especially the ones that think they're good at it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 03:01 PM) Yes, I'd say I'm closer to having those answers...because people are acting positively based on his words. Even if he's overstepped reality on several issues, Google and Facebook now have to deal with the fact that they want to be international companies based in a country that has access to their entire network if it wants it. The rest of the world isn't going to sit around and let their citizens be monitored without taking some sort of action or at least trying to get public guarantees. And Google et al. won't want their business undermined, so they'll want to bring forwards more information about what they actually turn over. On top of that, there are the occasional senator who will keep focus on this (Merkey in Oregon comes to mind in particular), and finally...he's probably not the only person who works for one of these contractors who doesn't feel right about what he's doing, and that's going to continue dragging this program into the light. I read this somewhere about the drone strikes but I think it applies here too. If every terrorist knows that the NSA is out there spying on their communications and taking steps to protect their data, as you say...then who is the secrecy aimed at? If this leak hasn't told a terrorist anything useful...and I'm not sure it has...then this secrecy is to protect the program from us. It's not to protect the program's effectiveness, it's to protect it from evaluation. There was no reason for the U.S. government to deny that drone strikes happened for years. It's not like an Al Qaeda militant couldn't see the crater in the ground. Those denials were to try to protect the program from being evaluated by the people, and the secrecy here seems similar to me. That, perhaps, is what troubles me the most. I agree on the bold, wholeheartedly. But, this is what happens when you forfeit freedom for a false sense of security. And then continue to re-elect those that took those freedoms from you/us, again, all for a false sense of security. We allowed them to do it at airports, and here we are, years later with them continuing to use security methods and systems that have been proven to not work, and we are going to allow them to do this, too...because, well...it's legal. They're not doing anything wrong, technically...and since the people will re-elect the same people, nothing will change. The beauty of that law, now that it's in effect, is it's IMPOSSIBLE to judge in terms of effectiveness. They [The US Govt] can now come forward with hundreds of "thwarted acts of terror because of the Patriot Act", that will be impossible to disprove. Not only that, but the burden of DISproof will be laid on the table, which, as you know, disproving something is the opposite of what's supposed to be done, but that's exactly how it'll go down. And Google, and the rest of these glorified spyware companies (including Apple, but to a lesser extent than the likes of Goog/FB), are partially to blame with this "big brother is okay" mentality people have today. They've made it acceptable to give away unknown amounts of data for who knows what reason, for who knows how long...and nobody seems to care. Totally reminds of me that George Carlin skit...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 02:47 PM) I don't know. I do know that I'm closer to having some of those answers today than I was before this guy came forwards, and I think that's positive. I agree with most of what you wrote in that post up until this part... Do you know that your closer to having some of these answers? Or are you simply being bombarded with so much additional information, some of which may not be correct, or in proper context, that you're more confused now than ever before? I'm betting that some of what Snowden is saying is factual...annnnnd I'm betting that some of it's stretching the truth, at best. If people had an attention span, I may have a different opinion on this matter...but I know how people are. And in a few months, when this is long forgotten, and people are okay with being spied on (you're already see this), none of this will matter.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 02:46 PM) Maybe he meant that instead of those companies flexing their legal power, they should have flexed their PR power to turn the court of public opinion against the government, regardless of the Patriot Act ostensibly allows. Not sure if it would have worked, but I thought that's what he meant. It probably is what he means, but I don't think the court of public opinion matters...at all, and the Government knows it. After all, in the public's opinion, The US Congress has an approval rating of what, 10%? Yet 90% of the incumbents will be re-elected. The same ones that wrote, revised and continue to pass the Patriot Act in specific. Probably without reading it.

I'm probably being a bit harsher than necessary, but seriously...did anyone here not already know this was going on? I'd use the word assume, but it doesn't seem proper to use post Patriot Act. I assumed the NSA spied on citizens BEFORE the Patriot Act, after they legalized it, I knew. Otherwise they wouldn't have made it legal. I just find it extremely arrogant and hypocritical that a person that actively spied, suddenly turned over a new leaf to "save the people from the evil government", and now he's saying companies like Apple should risk everything and deny court orders, despite the existence of the Patriot Act...because they're so big...they should be able too! Like I said, it seems a bit presumptuous. Apple's legal team alone is probably so massive that I'm sure they looked into every caviot of these court orders, and if they thought they could get away with fighting it, they would have. But I'm betting the Patriot Act (multiple times revised) is pretty bullet proof.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) They're not banks. (I can't tell if I'm being sarcastic). Probably the best answer I've heard, and I'm not sure if I should take it as sarcasm, knowing what we know about what the banks got away with.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) This may be true now, but I'm not sure for how much longer. EDIT: Only in respect to corporations on Google's order of magnitude, I meant. Then why didn't any of them do it? I have to assume their legal teams understand and explained the consequences.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 02:13 PM) So, I do have one problem with the logic in your initial post. Only 1 of these things can be true...either, as you state, everyone already knew that the NSA was able to do stuff like this and was actively doing so, or this leak is very damaging and has exposed behavior that embarrasses the companies and the US gov't. Both of those can't be true simultaneously. If everyone knew that this was happening, this disclosure wouldn't be hurting those companies. I think the only thing it did was verify to people that were in denial. The point I'm making is the companies are being unjustly embarrassed. They're complying with legal court orders. Whether we agree with these court orders or not is irrelevant.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 02:03 PM) You should check out /r/circlebroke if you love to hate the circlejerk. It's the only thing I am subscribed to on Reddit. Anyways, I just don't think he can be equated with Assange or Manning. Certainly a lot more noble than those buffoons. I dont necessarily disagree with the rest. I agree he's not as bad as the others, because at least he had some insight on this, but the way he's trying to come off as a savior via his interviews is making me sick. He also jumps to conclusions as to how business works in the US, simply because he worked for the NSA. The way he's talking, and it bothers me greatly, he's basically saying, "Apple or Google should have denied participation DESPITE the US government having court orders backed by the Patriot Act." The stupidity of that statement goes above and beyond naive. If people could ignore valid court orders or summons or warrants that easily, they'd probably do it all the time. Unfortunatly, doing so results in very bad things, no matter how big of a company you are.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) If a writer can't go a sentence without referencing bodily fluids as an insult, the writer should be embarrassed. I've removed such references. Forgive me, what I've been reading from "posters" on Reddit have pushed me...it was like wading through peoples drool in order to have a conversation about this guy. False hero worship sickens me. ...and I wasn't referencing the bodily fluids to insult anyone in particular, I was using it as a reference to how the Internet at large is reacting to this right now. If you know anything about Reddit, you'd understand the term circle jerk as I had used it. It's pretty common slang there. I thought you were Internet Reddit savvy. Do you never use Reddit? I edited Internet savvy to Reddit savvy, because if you don't go there, you wouldn't know how commonly used those references are. But you're right, in either case, it's unnecessary language.

As a warning, if you came here for a Edward Snowden hero worship conversation, click back now. Forgive me, but I have to come somewhere to rant about this. Reddit and the rest of the circle-jerking hive mind Internet are heralding this guy as a hero of freedom for what, IMO, any intelligent person already knew was going on. First, I didn't need this "leak" to verify anything. It's not like this was a secret that the NSA spies on Americans via the use of the Patriot Act. This is why they passed the Patriot Act. Is everyone f***ing stupid? Did people just assume they passed this freedom snatching power trip of a law for no reason? The second they passed the Patriot Act, expanded it, and re-passed it, I figured everyone KNEW this was going on. Having some douchebag "leak" it, after he was actively taking part in it for who knows how long doesn't impress me. Stop electing a congress with an approval rating such as they have and maybe you wouldn't end up with such "surprisingly unsurprising news". Second, people like Snowden, Assange, and Manning cause more harm in the end than any good they do, as most of this is irresponsible, un-vetted opinions, OR carelessly released information. For example, this is hurting Microsoft, Google, Yahoo and Apple, and most of the reason why is simply incorrect and stupid assumption. Based on this idiot's comments today, he says, and I quote, "Their denials went through several revisions as it become more and more clear they were misleading and included identical, specific language across companies. As a result of these disclosures and the clout of these companies, we’re finally beginning to see more transparency and better details about these programs for the first time since their inception. They are legally compelled to comply and maintain their silence in regard to specifics of the program, but that does not comply them from ethical obligation. If for example Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Apple refused to provide this cooperation with the Intelligence Community, what do you think the government would do? Shut them down?" This is such a load of bulls***, I don't even know where to begin. First, their denials haven't changed, at all. From the get go, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo and Apple denied direct involvement in PRISM, and the information they've released has all been done so on court orders. They haven't changed this message, either, as he claims. Second, he says they are legally compelled to oblige, which they are, but goes on to say that does not comply them from ethical obligation? What the f*** does that even mean? He goes on to say if one of these huge companies was to refuse to provide the information, under court order, what do you think the government would do, shut them down? Seriously? Did he seriously ask this? Is this guy like 13 years old? The government can make doing business, or getting anything done VERY hard when you don't comply with their legal court orders. Hell, they can make your life hard when you don't comply with them asking you nicely, let alone the fact that they have VALID f***ing court orders. Seriously, stop hero worshiping morons and start thinking for yourselves. The Patriot Act exists...it wouldn't exist if they weren't spying on you, you don't need idiots like this to "verify" anything for you.