Y2HH

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 08:32 AM) But this entire thread is taking it a step further. Yes, some people get more opportunities and squander them. You know what? That doesn't make them wussies. That doesn't mean society is going down the toilet. You think there weren't 20-somethings who made bad decisions in the 20's, 30's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and so on (omission intentional)? That somehow "OMG we're all doomed because people are making bad choices early in their lives" is a new phenomenon? I never said it makes them wussies. But if you squander opportunities, it's your own fault.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 08:25 AM) For a lot of people, the options aren't "stay at a (stable) home with parents" or "go party in college" Then they have other choices to make, don't they. That's not a question, it's a statement. I made the most of my opportunities, when I could have just as easily squandered them. Some people have it better, some people have it worse. And life isn't fair, but it goes on with or without your excuses, or your permission. If you wan't your kids to have better opportunities than you had, then sacrifice for them, like my father did for me. It's not like were talking about some guy that had everything handed to him. He was an immigrant from Germany, during WWII...you know, when everyone LOVED German people who could barely speak English in the United States. He was such a beloved figure here, that when he arrived, they threw high paying jobs at him. Oh, wait...they didn't. He could have leaned on lame ass excuses, too. But he didn't. Somehow, he made it, without all the opportunities he afforded me. Someone eventually has to stop making excuses and recognize they will only get so far...but perhaps they can enable their children to make it a bit farther. And so on down the line. Or...f*** it, let's just make excuses, instead. Because it's easier.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 07:53 AM) Great. Serious question in reply. How did you afford that? Savings? Parents helping? The ability to take an unpaid internship and still survive, be able to afford to have a roof over your head and food in your stomach without a paycheck, is a serious benefit that a lot of the people being lectured about being wussies...simply don't have. What would have happened to you if you'd gotten sick? Did you have health insurance at the time? This was when I was still in school, so I was still living with my parents at the time. I was still quite young when this occurred (I think around 19 or 20). Along with that internship, I was still working my two part time jobs (osco at night during the week) and dunkin donuts on weekends. So, in essence, I was working 3 jobs (one unpaid), and going to school full time. Needless to say, I didn't have much time to "play". By the time I was getting ready to graduate, I had accepted that tech support job, and upon graduating, I stayed with the company getting a raise to 31,200 a year (it was my real first out of school job). I was promoted to Jr. System Administrator. Coming out of college, I could have made ~45-50, as many of my graduating class were accepting jobs and making...but I chose to stay where I was and accept lesser money, because it was on the cutting edge of my profession. I made some sacrifices back then, and I won't pretend I wasn't "helped out" by others, namely my parents. But when others I knew were going off to school, living in dorms and having huge parties/the time of their lives, I was studying, working job after job, and nothing but. It paid off in the end. From my own observations, many people have such opportunities, but turn them down because they don't want to have to tell girls they still live with their parents...or they don't want to be around their parents, because they want to party. As I said, I won't pretend I wasn't given opportunities, but I took those opportunities, when it would have been just as easy to refuse them...because partying and girls were more important. While many of my friends rented a house together, I stayed home. I know...I'm super lame like that.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 10:50 PM) absolutely, but there's a statistic that says 75% of parents of obese kids don't REALIZE their child is overweight. how crazy is that? parents these days have rose colored glasses like you wouldn't believe, and this whole "protect our kids at all cost" mentality really doesn't prepare them for the real world. I dunno. Just my opinion. I agree that a balance is optimal Agreed.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 09:22 PM) That's why this whole home mortgage debate is interesting. Nobody (well, almost nobody) takes the side of either the government or the bank. However, you're also not going to get any type of agreement on the "greedy" individuals involved having the right to be bailed out the situations they got themselves into...because some are legitimately preyed upon by predatory lenders, and a large majority knew what they were getting into and just got too greedy. In that sense, it's "wussification" that government operates in such a way that those responsible got golden parachutes and almost no repercussions for their criminal acts....whereas all those homeowners are still stuck well underwater. That there's no accountability or responsibility on the side of either the government or the private lending institutions or the ratings agencies....that all three were able to conspire together and the main result is that they're even further encouraged that they will be bailed out in the future, the whole "too big to fail" argument. And I don't disagree blame was to be shared in that, it's unfortunate only one side was punished for this behavior.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 09:08 PM) What is this useful skillset? As an unemployed 20 year old looking for a job, I'd like to know. I also want to to know what this useless skillset I apparently chose to have is? Please. Tell me. First of all, your 20. Unless your into a trade skill, I have some news for you...you don't have a useful skillset yet. When I say useful, it means something the world currently needs, not wants. From simple things to complex things that require great amounts of education and/or training/experience, for example, barbers, auto mechanics, electricians, nurses, dental hygenists, and information technology personal are a few examples of currently useful skillsets. The world, in it's current state, *requires* them. You are young and in school, something you willingly chose to do, so now you have to accept that station in life, at least, temporarily. Your current skillset isn't in the workforce, it's in the classroom. You are studying journalism, and as someone else mentioned, consider information technology as minor or double major, and why? Because IT skills will be very useful to journalists in the future (they already are), and just having them can give you a great -- and useful -- fallback set of skills. Right now your "job" is to study and be the best journalist student you can be. The path you chose, on the short term, does not equate to having a very good job at the moment. At your age, I worked at Osco during the week (at night, after school), and at Dunkin' Donuts on weekends. Why? Because I was in school studying IT, I didn't have a skillset the world needed...yet. I couldn't fix cars, I couldn't install pipes or do plumbing work, etc...I accepted my station in life at that time was working those part time jobs to get me through school, at least far enough so that I could get a low paying job in that profession, which I eventually did. They weren't great jobs...hell, they weren't even good jobs...but it was all I could actually do at the time...so I accepted that and did it. In my actual career path, first job I accepted was a non-paying IT internship at city hall, downtown Chicago. Note I said NON paying. Shortly after, I accepted a low paying tech support job at a local ISP...which barely paid me more than I was making at Dunkin' Donuts or Osco at the time. The choice I made to be a student forced me to have to accept things like this on the short term...all the while my buddies who went into trades were making bank. It sucked at times, but I accepted being the lowly paid student. In the end, it paid off. Have patience. But do yourself a favor, and stop pretending like you have a skillset to offer the world. You don't. Yet.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 07:26 PM) Again, nonsense. The number of people with skills appropriate for the available jobs is huge...because the number of available jobs collapsed when people lost all their money. I bet I could find a job if I lost mine. And I wouldn't need you to make such excuses for me, because I have a useful skillset.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 07:23 PM) 20 somethings don't have jobs because the economy imploded. Not because they were turned into wussies because they weren't bullied enough by someone or because their parents didn't criticize them enough. They also don't have jobs because they have a useless skill set. A skill set most of them actually chose.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 07:13 PM) And of course, the personal responsibility only falls upon the people you want to heap scorn on, not on the people who spend billions of dollars marketing that crap, getting the taxpayers to subsidize it, and so forth. This is the exact kind of excuse making I'm taking about. And it's complete and utter bulls***. I don't care how much money McDonald's spends trying to "force me" to eat their food. I still have the choice to not, regardless of what subsidy. The fact is most people are fat because they want to be, because they're lazy. Because people such as yourself convince them it's not their fault...when it f***ing is. There are actual people with medical conditions that prevent them from losing weight, and bulls*** like you just spewed diminishes their reality, because you give otherwise normal people who could be healthy if they choose the excuse to blame McDonalds, or the government. An excuse they dont deserve. Allow me the honor to cut through the bulls***. If they want to know why they're actually fat, all they have to do is look in the mirror.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 07:11 PM) No, the bad economy has nothing to do with that and the suggestion is quite ludicrous. The bad economy is what happens when the financial industry inflates a $10 trillion dollar bubble based on enormous, systemic fraud and then that bubble implodes. He clearly said beyond the bad economy.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 06:46 PM) there's nothing about me that qualifies as "big time". I'm a struggling actor in NYC. lol also this post is a bit incoherent. you're arguing that the mentality Y2HH and I were talking about doesn't contribute to the problem? this overprotective pampering of kids that's going on these days? This is my personal observation. These days it seems the default is, "no, not my kids...they'd never!", when the fact is, yes, they would...and probably did. If you've never failed at anything, it's because you never really tried anything. I know...your not fat because you eat garbage...your fat because, somehow, someway, McDonald's forced you too. Or the people you eat lunch with eat at bad places. I mean, it's not like you have any actual choice.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 05:20 PM) exactly. wussification includes the entitlement mentality. people now don't want to work or contribute, they simply want to 'take'. . While I don't quite agree it's the "wussification" of society, I have observed that we have become an increasingly excuse laden society. We didn't fail because we failed, we failed because of X, Y and Z. When I grew up, losing sucked...so next time we tried really f***ing hard to win. Sadly, sometimes, it resulted in another loss. These days, I'm seeing more of this "there are no losers" bulls*** going on, in academics, in sports, in everything. Sad news, there are losers. And if you live long enough, you're going to run into more than your fair share. So strive to be a winner, instead...instead of using every man made excuse society created for you as to why you fail.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 10:05 PM) Y2hh, I didnt mean you were German that way. Just that you were likely of German descent. And I have no problem with anyone. Its the past. Can I ask why you felt that I was of German descent, then? Is it the way I talk on the Internet?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 11:46 PM) Hmmm...I don't think the Germans were all quite lining up like you seem to argue...many of them were really afraid to step out of line, because if you did, you ended up getting beaten and in a hospital bed somewhere. And it wasn't just Germans that were somewhat complicit in all of this...there were quite a few Americans and American politicians who did the exact same thing as the Germans did. This is exactly it. Most of them were so afraid of their own shadows and what the consequences of not following strict rules would end up meaning to them and their families that they did things that they'd never be capable of doing under ordinary conditions, even ordinary conditions of that day. But, that's life under a dictatorship.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 07:53 PM) And at this point I probably should stop posting. Im going to get way to nasty. Normal people can do bad things. I think I am a normal person. I know I can do bad things. When I read about someone fighting for the Nazi's I want to hurt them. I think of all the people they killed, I think of my Great Uncle who died on D-Day, I want to get my pound of flesh. That doenst make me a bad person, it makes me a human. But I admit I can do terrible things, I admit I am capable of great evil. I just try really hard not to let that happen. ...and I agree with you. But I didn't do it...so try to not take it out on me like you are.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 07:42 PM) Not to be a dick, but as soon as I read the first post by you that I quoted, I knew you were German. You obviously have a much different perspective, part of my family were Germans who escaped from Germany on the famous last boat out. They described it much differently. They are the minority obviously, most of the Germans who survived, were the Nazis, not the Jews. So history will be rewritten, eventually the German people will be victims just like the Jews. Its okay, normal people do bad things. You dont have to further the myth. It could happen here. It could happen here. It could happen here. Under the right circumstances, it could happen here. If you want to make sure it never happens again, if you want to make sure then you have to believe it could happen here. Anything else and we start down the path again. You just dont understand, I dont even understand. I have to correct you on one thing. I'm not German, I'm American. Please don't refer to me as German. I've never been to Germany, I don't speak German, either. And my father and his family also escaped Germany much in the same way as your family did, by boat. And Jews did survive, friendo...they still exist.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 07:30 PM) ANYWAY - 4 people got shot at gun shows today. lolz Dude, why is that funny to you? Seriously.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 07:29 PM) Ok, but it was the prison officers who actually PUT people in the ovens, is what we're saying. I'm not talking about the person to give the order. Like I said, coming from a rather unique perspective...they didn't do that because they were evil pieces of garbage...they did it because if they didn't, they'd watch their 2 year old daughters, sons, and wife burn instead. Again, this all came from the very top...who had the power and control to carry it out. In this world, with the sheer size of our military, if anything like this started to occur, you'd see anarchy and revolt from the soldiers within minutes. Information travels rather fast these days. Back then, the only people who knew the consequences of not following the mans orders were the people involved...and that wasn't many in comparison to today. Oh, and they had no phones, etc...either. So word traveled...quite...slow.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 07:14 PM) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment We don't really know how we'd act if we were in 1930's Germany, or the Antebellum South, or apartheid South Africa etc. This is, without a doubt, 100% true. I'd give it more than 100%, but that's an impossibility, so you'll have to settle with 100. But I can guess how we'd act. Like the most heinous, evil, son of a mothers the world ever saw to that point. Lord of the Flies isn't actually about children, either. Unfortunately, we'd be savages. And I'll be the first to admit it.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 07:24 PM) we're saying they were normal in the sense that most people under THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES would have done more or less the same thing. And by this I don't mean the higher ups, as I'll agree that those people were a special breed of evil - all we're saying is that people in groups are capable of really horrific things, and the circumstances of 1930's Germany lent themselves to the desensitization of the German people - thus why there were so many who were capable and willing to be a part of things like the SS. Even under those circumstances, the SS were NOT normal, and there weren't many willing, nor capable of being SS, either. Not sure where you heard that. The higher ups in Hitler's military are the ones who carried out his most heinous orders, not regular military, as many of you seem to believe.

Sorry guys, but I have to chime in again. I have quite a unique perspective on what life was like in Nazi Germany, as my dad actually lived in it, so I have been privy to what life was actually like from a person that actually lived it until his teens. Like Ptac said, no, these were NOT normal people, because the time, and mostly, the situation in which they lived made them different people. In ways none of you could imagine. People were starving to death in Germany, so to quote the phrase, 'don't bite the hand that feeds you', fits more so than it would here, at this present time. If Hitler commanded one of his people to do something heinous, they did it, not only out of fear of the man that went from a being a lowly Private in WW1 to leading that entire country by WW2, but because he owned them to the point that he'd slaughter their families for disobeying. Hitler also had something pretty infamous called the SS...and THOSE were the people that carried out his most heinous orders. And again, the SS were NOT ordinary people, so please, can it. That s*** wouldn't happen here. Some of you may hate Obama with every fiber of your being, but I guarantee the man would NEVER order his military to airstrike his own civilians. But again, that's Obama, in 2013. We don't know who will come into power in 2090 or what the state of the world will be like at that time...and the point is, we are a completely different people, living in a completely different world than the people who lived in Nazi Germany, following Hitlers command to the most minute detail. Hitler commanded a rather small, well trained military in his time, in addition to an even smaller and super well trained to the point of being robotic SS. Our current military, by size alone, would be IMPOSSIBLE to control in the same manner. So please, let's stop pretending otherwise.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 01:24 PM) 120 years fom now for all we know the entire planet could be a nuclear wasteland or a united world exploring other solar systems. Exactly the point I'm making. We can't see the future...we can't guess what will happen. Just because none of this is a reality now, doesn't mean it can't become a reality someday.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 01:14 PM) Just like thinking the government would call for it is asinine. And I already made a pretty clear post saying I agree with that...at this moment in time. But what about 120 years from now? Exactly.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 12:28 PM) This. How many countries have done exactly that. And it's funny how Egypt was able to overthrow their government and they have some of the fewest guns per capita in the world. This isn't Egypt or countries like he's taking about, either. The majority of the us armed forces would not follow orders to open fire on their own citizens that they swore to defend. This is f***ing assanine. The fact you two think that shows how disconnected from actual thought you both are at this point.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 11:55 AM) Simply put this is not true at all. Wow, what a profound point you made. Glad to see you elaborated. Oh wait, you didn't, because simply put, what you said is without thought. You posted this simply to read your own text, much like talking just to hear your own voice. Simply put, this isn't Nazi Germany, and it's not Iran or some other dictator led country. MOST of our military personal would refuse to turn guns on their own friends and family if ordered to do so unjustly, especially on a mass scale. If you stopped to think about it for a moment, you'd come to that realization. So no, if American pilots were ordered to bomb Chicago, because it's citizens had guns and were attempting to overthrow an obviously corrupt government, 99 out of 100 pilots would tell their leaders to stick their orders up their asses. Those that have done this sort of thing in the past were sworn to defend their country and it's leaders, and always in dictatorships. Our military is sworn to defend it's country and her citizens, not it's leaders. If you know anyone in the military, ask them if they'd bomb their own citizens if ordered to do so. You probably won't find a single person that will say yes.