Y2HH

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 07:17 AM) I actually feel the opposite. I predicted Pierre will have a down year defensively. So far he has in the early going, but again, it's early. I still think he will finish at a negative UZR however. Thornton will be fine. In fact, he is still the least of my worries in the bullpen.... when he's back to his set-up role, which I agree with your second part. I don't know...Thornton's "fastball" looks slow...and he's essentially a 1 pitch pitcher. Without that dominating fastball, he's Jenks without the hammer...and that's a big problem. And I have no concerns about Pierre. He's an average outfielder, but dropping fly balls like he's been doing is clearly out of character for him.

QUOTE (hawksfan61 @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 07:08 AM) Totally agree, I asked myself when they showed Thornton on the mound what the hell he was doing out there when Buehrle was at 99 pitches, what was the logic? Mark didn't look tired, he could have easily finished the game. I had a sick feeling when Thornton took the mound that we were going to lose this game. There is no logic behind it but some guys just cannot handle the closer's role and for whatever reason the 9th inning is a totally different animal, and Thornton looks mentally defeated right now. Pierre's Pods impression in the outfield isn't helping matters, but everything off of Thornton is a rocket right now. Get the guy out of there before he costs us anymore games. We could easily be 8-2 right now and every game will matter come September. The logic is, and was, exactly what the poster you responded too doesn't want to hear. Whether you two want to hear it or not, it is what it is. Ozzie made up his mind that he'd not overuse Buehrle this year, as Buehrle has been running out of gas mid earlier and earlier every year as the innings pile on. Furthermore, it's been said that even in games like this one, Buehrle would be removed...where a closer *should* be able to protect a 1 run lead over an anemic Oakland offense.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 07:03 AM) Lets go back to the Rays game on Friday which Thornton "blew the game." The big plays were: 1) the fly ball Pierre dropped. A lazy fly ball which the hitter was jammed on. 2) the easy ground ball to Alexei and he made the terrible throw 3) the Upton single, which was a jam shot down the line. 4)the homerun My point is Thronton made his pitches up until the homerun...essentially FOUR OUTS LATER. If you want to blame him for having bad defense, then I can't really help you. I was on the phone during last nights debockle (the girlfriend was a lot like Pierre last night, having a melt down) so I cannot speak to the quality of pitches Thronton threw. Thornton has been getting hit, and hit hard. Warning track line drives, rocketballs like the one hit at Konerko last night. So far I've seen one hit off of him that wasn't hit hard, and it was the jam shot you're speaking of. He's clearly throwing batting practice right now, and other teams know it... We all agree Thornton had bad defense behind him for those games, but a closer MUST be able to overcome things like giving the team an extra out...thus far, Thornton has had 2 opportunities to pitch over fielding errors and couldn't do it either time...he didn't even come close to doing it either time. He's looked TERRIBLE, and anyone that can't admit that he's looked terrible is just lying to themselves. Yes, we get it, Pierre f***ed up. Thornton, in the closer role, should be able to pitch over that. In previous years, he'd pitch over that more often than not, because he'd strike out 1 or 2 batters at a minimum, and make people look silly flailing at pitches they have no chance at hitting hard. As I said above, he's getting hit HARD and often.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 11:00 PM) You cannot lose a division by 1/2 game. That wasn't the point.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:55 PM) Maybe you should read my actual posts instead of jumping to ridiculous conclusions. Maybe go back to the KC thread where I start to question Thornton's stuff. Maybe read tonights thread when I comment about what I saw tonight. But dont act like I dont understand what it means. A lot of people on this board dont understand what it means if we give up on Thornton, cant find anyone else and waste a season because we overreacted in the first week when we are still above 500. Its a 162 game season, we are less than 10 games in. 1/16 is the equivalent of 1 football game. Its way to early to go insane, but like I said 1-2 more outings you have no choice. Right now you can still write it off as bad luck to start, but eventually its not just luck. I guess instead of looking for immediate knee jerk reactions, Im looking at the entire season. Im tired of reading about when we are 3 back in September. Screw that, you make adjustments you get better, if Im going to make a mistake, Id rather it be early in the year. It is what it is, you wake up tomorrow and go back to work. All you can do is give yourself a shot to win every time out, the Sox have done that every game, they are going to win more than they lose if they keep it up. True, but it would absolutely suck to lose the division by .5 games because of extending a blown experiment.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:41 PM) The point is it's not worth the risk. I don't think I've ever seen Thornton look this bad before. As someone else asked before... did Bobby even blow 3 straight saves? "What if Santos fails as a closer?" Then you try Sale and if that doesn't work we're f***ed and that's the REALITY. I'm not gonna try and tell myself it will work out and there's no way it won't... that's reality. "What ifs" are foolish thing to base arguments entirely on. So far the evidence says Thornton has not looked good at all and Santos has a better arsenal to be a closer. Try it. If it doesn't work it doesn't work but you don't just NOT act on something because you fear it will be worse; like I said before, that's foolish. Honestly, I'd consider giving Crain a shot even...and I know people will call me crazy.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:36 PM) How do you know Thornton will continue to fail, given his track record as a great reliever? You do know that even the best relievers in the game go through slumps right? He's had 2 bad innings, supplemented by some terrible defense. What if Santos fails as a closer? Trying is one thing, but you guys are also implicating that failing at closing = possibly messed up mental state. So there's a risk at TRYING, apparently. Yet, you want to TRY. I think people would be in agreement with you here if Thornton looked remotely dominating...but right now, even bad hitters are making him look like a bad pitcher that isn't even coming close to fooling anyone anymore. It looks like everyone he's faced thus far has caught up with his pitches, which, in fairness, look a lot slower than in previous years.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:32 PM) Hawkins wasnt as bad as people make him out to be, he just had a sub 2 era before becoming a closer. There are arguments both sides here, its not an exact science. I did a bunch of research on it because I got in some arguments after Thornton's KC adventure, and the results are inconclusive at best. I have concerns about Thornton, but no one else is a sure thing either. At this point if we make a change, there is no going back (imo), so Im willing to be a little more patient, but as I said, 1-2 more blow saves without actually closing a game, its over. Nobody said Hawkins was bad...everyone pretty much agreed he was awesome UNTIL force into that closer role that ruined him mentally, and forever after.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:31 PM) I love how guys want to counter an argument about someone looking absolutely terrible and potentially being replaced with "There's no guarantee such-and-such other person will work." No s***, that's why you TRY it. We're taking no bigger a gamble (much less of one, IMO) then leaving our star setup guy in to keep blowing games and regress as has been pointed out over and over. I say give him one last shot and if he still looks this bad... he's done. I agree wit this, but with a caveat. Simply recording a save isn't enough, IMO, he needs to looking good doing it...not simply record 3 outs all hit to center field that go 399 feet...in that case, again, I say nay nay.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:23 PM) I don't know how many times people need to see s*** like that before they believe that risks like these aren't worth taking. Thornton has had nothing at all yet on his fastball and can't seem get anything but a hard hit ball. And it needs to be done sooner than later. Note that Hawkins was returned to the 8th inning spot after leaving the Cubs, and never returned to form...they ruined him mentally, and that's what Thornton looks like right now...mentally defeated. Pierre is a footnote in this...the fact that Thornton hasn't recorded a single easy out, or looked dominating over any hitter thus far is alarming...and it could end up costing us more than just a few games, but the best setup man in the game the last few years running.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:17 PM) Santos CLEARLY has a better arsenal to be a closer and Thornton is not himself while he's in this role. You don't play around with shut like this and give away games; you try something else and try to find something that works. It's clear Thornton is not adjusting to this role; get him out and where he's comfortable (not to mention what's more logical) before any more damage is done on the team, much less Matt's mentality. Note that the Cubs took who was pretty much the best 8th inning guy I've ever seen (Hawkins), moved him to closer where he failed...kept him there in hopes he'd pitch through it...and effectively ruined his career. He never recovered. I'd like to not see that happen to Thornon, and right now, that's exactly what I see, despite it bring early to call this that way, I am anyway...because it's my opinion that the same thing is occurring right before our eyes. Thornton doesnt even look close to comfortable.

Oh and while blaming Pierre is perfecty legit, because wtf...note that other pitchers on our team had to pitch over errors or dropped foul balls (like Beckhams tonight) and have done just that. Thornton hasn't even looked to come close in recording easy outs, fooling anyone, or being able to pitch over errors...all things a closer needs to be able to do.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:12 PM) I believe Thornton deserves a solid month until removed from the role. I'm sorry. He's been too good for too long. I just can't believe the 9th inning is that big a difference from the 8th inning. How many chances does he get? We have 3 blown saves already and he's recorded exactly zero successfully, hell, he hasn't even come close to closing a game. I think the experiment is over now, before we give away any more games just for the sake of 1 player.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:09 PM) I'm all for giving Santos the next chance to close. Latroy Thornton needs to shut down the 8th inning for us. That's exactly who Thornton reminds me of.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:56 PM) oh ok, so you arent basing it on anything of substance. Hence why I said IMO. Or did you somehow not bother reading that part? Not to mention the situation in which I expressed my opinion was hypothetical, considering we would never know if I was right or not. So, in my opinion, thronton was blowing that save either way.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:52 PM) and youre basing this off of what....? The um...leadoff double and the fact that Thornton has been throwing gopher balls all year thus far? Funny Crain had to finish the inning for him.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 09:49 PM) I was having a great time tonight. In chat with a lot of my Soxtalk brothers. Until this bum decided that he wanted to go back to pre-little league. Juan, you are awful. I can't stand you. The fact that we had to trade for you in the first place is a black mark on this organization. You make me sick. The end until I come up with something else. I was just as mad as you, being that Pierre has done this twice in the last few games...but that said, they were going to tie the game anyway...Thornton as closer is a failed experiment. IMO, that leadoff double was going to score to tie the game regardless of Pierre.

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 05:07 PM) An employer emailed me requesting to schedule a time for a "short phone meeting" before a personal interview, as he put it. What kind of advice can you guys give me, what should I expect? These tend to be minor technical type calls to feel you out to see if you even know the basics of what the job would entail.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 10:10 AM) By the end of the year you're going to want to retract that statement. I'm hoping the Sox get a contract extension worked out with Jackson. I agree with this.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) A 64 bit processor can technically see 2^64 bits of memory, that's 10^18 bytes. I think at this point, the most Windows will allow for RAM is something like 64-128 GB. But I doubt anybody will be putting in that much memory when they're not building a super computer. 32-bit is pretty much extinct at this point outside of netbooks and really low-end laptops. It's not just what the processor can handle, but also the OS. Even if you have a 64 bit processor (Core 2, i3/i5/i7, etc) installed, but you're running a 32bit version of Windows (it happens), you will still be constrained by a maximum of 4GB of usable memory addressing by the operating system itself. Being that the OS reserves at least a half gig of ram for video, it means the usable addressing would be more in the order of 3.5 gigs for the rest of what you do. A lot of these OEM's slap 32 bit operating systems on their prebuilt machines because they were able to get them cheaper...they also slap 8 gigs of memory in these usually not even understanding that the user will only get half of that.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:22 PM) It's really not. He still used to throw the slider to try and steal a strike or keep the hitter honest. Thornton's fastball is 2-3 mph slow right now, and he's too down in the zone with it. He cant throw anything other than the fastball for strikes from what I've seen.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:19 PM) I'd like to say I told you so to everyone but... I'd feel too bad seeing as it's taking us probably losing a heartbreaker for people to start saying it. I'd rather it happen now than later, at least.

QUOTE (cws0591 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) whats the deal with Thornton??? someone needs to tell him a closer needs to use more than just his fastball.... That's all he has.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:14 PM) How is this game on Thornton? Yeah, he gave up a bomb, but after the 2 errors had sabotaged the game. Yea, we gave them 5 outs.