Y2HH

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:58 PM) how is breaking him in half a life-altering injury? They could have stitched him back together. I have to say that I thought about my post directed at you on the way home -- and thinking about you (who I do not know) for that long covers my quota for the next 30 decades. Jokes aside, I didn't mean to call you a piece of trash, because although I don't know you, I don't believe you are one. I stand by what I said however, that sports making you say things like, "I hope he gets hurt/broken in half", brings the worst out in you and makes you something you aren't...which was my intended point to begin with. Sports should bring the best out in us...but sadly that's not the case most of the time, and it goes against everything I ever learned growing up about sports. That's all I meant to convey...and I know I failed in trying to do so...so I wanted to clear it up.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:47 PM) Well, yeah, but that wasn't happening over here and you started calling a knowledgeable poster "stupid" and "useless pieces of inhuman sh*t" for absolutely no reason. Take it up with the jokers on those boards you cited. My posts weren't necessarily targeting anyone in specific, I was merely stating my opinion on what I've seen from many Bears fans, not only over the years, but yesterday, too. I replied to the person who thought I targeted them and apologized because it wasn't mean to be that, however... Then I responded to one person here, in specific, after this, so yes, someone here did just that. QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:07 PM) LOL, whatever. Brett Favre is a royal douche and I was hoping Wooten broke him in half.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:36 PM) Then reply to those threads. No one is relishing in old man Favre going down over here. Believe it or not, NFL defenses are designed to get to the QB and to take him down, and when he goes out, that's a win for the defense. There is nothing sad about it... that's f***ing football. This I have no problem with. It's a fine line I'm walking here among the rabid NFL fans, but let me explain my stance, because most of you seemed to have missed my point entirely. I have no issue with a person getting injured in football, that's the name of the game...what I do have a problem with, and I dealt with it yesterday, and today, is people actively hoping that not only do the Bears get to Favre, but they injure him in a possible life altering way...and because it's football, it's ok to hope for that. Call me whatever you want, I just don't get that mentality, nor do I like it. Not in the NFL, and not in any other sports. Another example, AJ ramming Barrett and scoring a run, this is part of the game, and it was a great play. But wishing AJ had physically hurt Barrett during that play, not the same...at least to me.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:34 PM) Oh my. Thanks for the life lesson, Mr. Perfect. Yeesh. No problem.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:31 PM) How is a body outline of someone, AFTER they were injured = Wishing they get hurt. You're way off base here...especially with me, since you have no idea of my feelings for the Bears or Favre. I didn't mean to post it directly at you, you just happened to post the picture. I've seen numerous threads on bears.scout.com, chicagobears.com, etc...of people saying how they celebrated Favre's injury, and that him being injured was the play of the game, etc...and how they were hoping he'd get taken out, broken in half, or otherwise. I didn't mean to single you out in my example of what I hate about some sports fans...seeing as I directly replied to your post, I see why you think that, so I apologize.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:23 PM) WTF? DO you even know what posts you are quoting anymore? Have a good day guy, hope it gets better for you. I'm having a fantastic day, thanks for asking. And I know exactly what posts I'm quoting, you don't, you've made that abundantly clear. I've tried to clear it up for you multiple times now, but you still don't get it. Being a rabid fan that loves your team and loves seeing them win has f***ing NOTHING to do with taking enjoyment out of the injury or the "hoping for injury" of others. So I hope YOUR day gets better for you.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:17 PM) You are the one who thinks supporting a team blindly is a negative, I call it being a fan, and in reality its the most pure thing about being a sports fan. Maybe you should concentrate on something a little tamer...knitting perhaps? Not what I said WHATSOEVER. I support the White Sox blindly, and that's not a negative, nor did I say it was. Supporting a team, blindly or otherwise, has NOTHING to do with wishing injury upon competing teams/players, nor taking pleasure out of the injury of others. To me, that's not being a sportsman, that's being a piece of trash. And I stand by it.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:12 PM) No, it doesnt. Wishing Brett Favre gets sacked so f***ing hard that he comes out of the game makes me and the other 90 percent of NFL fans who were thinking the same thing completely awesome. Yes, it does.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:11 PM) Have you had a s***ty day or something? You've basically described every NFL fan across the country. They have made movies about NFL fans and they ridiculous amount of hope that abounds before every season starts. Have you ever actually lived anywhere else in the country? I can tell you first hand that eve Bengals and Browns fans think and act that way about their teams. Its the reason the NFL is the most popular sport in the country. There are equally stupid people in a lot of places. So it's ok for you to be stupid, too? If this is the reality of 99% of NFL fans, then 99% of NFL fans are useless pieces of inhumane s*** when broken down to their true selves. If sports bring out the worst in people, then they've missed the ENTIRE point.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:07 PM) LOL, whatever. Brett Favre is a royal douche and I was hoping Wooten broke him in half. You can laugh it off all you want, but what's it say about you that you feel that way? I mean, honestly...wishing that upon anyone is just...it makes you a bad person, and if that's what sports brings out of you, you need to not watch them.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) If only this could somehow end in Steve King no longer representing Iowa.... Or Alan Grayson in Flo...oh, wait.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 01:49 PM) Jokes aside, and I'm sure many Bears fans are happy to see Favre go, making fun of or hoping for a person to get/become physically injured is never...funny. This is exactly what I'm talking about with Bears fans acting their finest. It's not enough that they beat Favre the majority of the end of his career, it's not enough that they beat Favre 40-14 yesterday...it's picking this as their favorite moment, or wishing injury upon him that makes me dislike Bears fans. Those other things should be enough...but they aren't. I despise that mentality in sports. It embodies everything we learned to NOT do in sports as kids...and doing it as an adult...and laughing about it.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 01:32 PM) I don't know about Young, but this isn't the first time Trent's hated on Cutler. He was very harsh on him and the Bears offense, going as far as to call them pathetic. That's far from a valid criticism. Combine that with his unironic proclamations about teams needing great QB's to win in the post season, and it's easy to hate on him. When Cutler wins a single playoff game in the NFL, he will start getting more respect from these types -- and not until. I love Cutler, he plays hard and takes risks, and he's fun to watch because of these things...but in the NFL, he's proven absolutely nothing yet, to pretend or to say otherwise is false. This has always been my problem with Bears fans and their general arrogance that they get from who knows where. They're so easy to dislike because they have that "Cub" like mentality that they're the most awesomeist thing ever when in fact, they aren't. They want praise for everything their team does, but don't like to give praise to anyone else. When they win on a fluke play, it's part of the game, when they lose, it's not because the other team beat them, it's because they didn't show up, or some other such nonsense. I don't apply this mentality to all Bears fans, either...but there are the many, as I like to put it, 'Da Bers" fans...and this is directed at you if you're amongst them.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 01:29 PM) They're not accounted for in US anti-SS rhetoric that I'm referring to, where SS is treated as an investment vehicle comparable to IRA's instead of what it is. I'm not opposed to re-examining or restructuring the system, I just don't want it changed into something it isn't. ^^ This. And it's NOT a 401k system, so let's not make it that.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 01:22 PM) because these things can't be accounted for? You are being stubborn. They can be and should be accounted for, however, a lot of people do NOT account for them. Social Security does, in many ways, account for these types of unforeseen losses for people, but again, requires the involvement of all, not some. You would be surprised to find that most people don't have life insurance policies to protect their families...all they're children have is that Social Security safety net in case the unforeseen occurs.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 01:02 PM) Hence the phasing out to secure bonds as you get nearer to retirement. You again take into account the value of time. I call this the Dr. Evil concept of investing. Translation: A highly elaborate situation in which everything just goes according to plan. Hypothetical: What if you die tomorrow and your daughter needs to start collecting this money for basic child support needs during this same recession? Ahhh...and therein lies the rub.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 12:36 PM) What happens if you're stupid enough to turn 65 (or w/ever payout age is) during a huge economic recession and don't have time to wait for it to average out? I dunno, any talk of converting SS to an investment makes me really leery. That's not why it's there. This very thing happened to a LOT of people's retirements (IRA/401k/Stocks) in 2008 when the market lost a ton of value due to a self-created financial house of cards built by the very same people who will undoubtedly be giving investment advice for people when Social Security is open. Those with the luxury of time could have and should have waited it out, however, those who had no choice but to start collecting or default on bills/loans or whatever other living expenses were out of luck. I can't imagine people thinking this is still a good idea after what we just went through with the mortgage fiasco. Most of us are intelligent people, and I'd say most of us didn't lose our homes -- but a LOT of people did...and look at what it did for the economy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 11:44 AM) Hasn't the military already established rules about workplace relationships? So? Code Red's were illegal but it didn't stop Jack Nicholson from ordering one in order to keep a miscreant in line.

Keep this in mind, SS is the one of the last instruments the private sector can't get their hands on -- and it's the one they want most. They'll fix SS just like they fixed the endless 401k's that have gone bankrupt due to bad investment advice/choices and the endless pensions that are massively underfunded or completely bankrupt. They got their hands on those, and did more harm than good. And keep in mind I'm the LAST person to defend social instruments. Oh, and to the idiots that want to do away with welfare and public SS, they need to grow themselves a brain. Now, I'm not saying welfare doesn't need serious reform, as it's a program meant to help get people back on their feet, not keep them down (which is what it's become in many ways), but that said -- doing away with the system would lead to million of starving, destitute people on the streets. If you think those people are going to just die off quietly...you'd better do more than lock your doors and buy some guns...because they'll come take what you have, without fear.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 10:04 AM) Really? So if you die today and stop contributing the SS fund collapses? You just answered your own question. You and I wouldn't be the only two people taking our money out. MOST people would, especially when convinced they could be and should be making more money elsewhere. The con artists would come out of the woodwork with bad investment advice for the plethora of people who trust them, and most would wind up losing money, and a lot of it. They'd collectively collapse the entire system, and the last safety net they have to rely on for retirement would be gone. As bad as it is now because its underfunded, imagine if they wound up with nothing, which would happen to a lot more than you think...it'd create an entire era of welfare recipients that have no other choice since their SS is gone the way of the dodo.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 09:58 AM) I love how we're throwing out terms like "them" and "they," not "me" or "I," which is precisely the problem. I'm not arguing we scrap the "safety net" for "them," I'm saying let me take my portion out and put it to something else. There cannot be an "opt out" for the SS system as designed, or it cannot work. It would collapse without "you" or "I", which is the problem in what you're suggesting.

I find it odd I'm fighting for a social safety net here...I must have jumped into the other dimension.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 09:49 AM) Ah, you mean like medicare and other subsidies the government provides the elderly? Do old people really live on their SS income? Isn't the whole problem right now that SS isn't enough for a lot of people? Exactly. SS is barely enough now...so have them lose it and then what? In this scenario, while not perfect, they have something...in the other scenario, the majority would end up with even less, or even nothing. It's just a bad bad idea to privatize it even though it would benefit the few of us who DO know how to invest.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 09:47 AM) What kinds of problems exactly? So because some stupid people will spend their money we should deny other people the option of investing THEIR OWN MONEY as they see fit? If that's the worry then put up some sort of requirement for opting out of social security (i.e., must be invested in something, can't just be spent as cash). But we deal with this situation in other areas of society. We allow people to buy houses despite knowing that a good number of them are too stupid to understand the terms of the deal or what they can actually afford. This ends up costing society as a whole too, but we (democrats) still demand that banks lend to those people because home ownership is a "right" in this country. Yes, because in this case there is nothing on the back end to save them...because this WAS designed to save them. So, in essence, it's one sacrifice you and I have to make for the good of the many. Oh, and stop taking about "stupid people", because most smart people have no idea how to invest either...including the majority of people on this message board.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 09:44 AM) Ah yes, the "people-are-too-stupid-for-their-own-good-so-government-should-do-everything-for-them" argument. In this case, they are. You'd end up with a majority population with nothing after retirement, and you'd still have to take care of them -- unless of course you enact some sort of famine law and just mow them all down with machine guns to "take them off the books".