Y2HH

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 11:02 PM) I got a question... how does it make any sense to pass a bill that is suppossed to fix something that might not even exist? Should we also be passing bills that tax the American people a total of billions of dollars for search parties to find and destroy ManBearPig? This is beyond ridiculous. How about instead of the dems shoving "Global Climate Change" down everyone's throat, we have a legit and very serious argument about it first? Because your argument doesn't agree with theirs, so it's wrong, and it makes you automagically ignorant because you don't believe them...regardless of the fact that there is science for it and against it -- and the against it side is growing by the day. Watch, someone will respond to this with "facts" on the side of warming, which will make me sound ignorant for not buying into the scam, while "conveniently" ignoring all the counter science.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 09:15 PM) Not sure how funny it is. There are people out there that can't afford health insurance, so what do we do? We make energy more expensive, so it costs them more to get to and from work, it costs their employers more for heating, air-conditioning, etc., the list goes on -- how does that help any of this current economic situation? Nothing like tackling one problem at a time and making sure it's solved before we move onto the next world changing issue as if it were just another page in a 2$ magazine. Sometimes people make me laugh at how f***ing shortsighted they are, regardless of how smart they may be. Whatever the case may be, and this isn't to you in specific, but this isn't a laughing matter -- none of this is, from past administrations to the current -- a few problems were solved, and a million more created. Same old, same old, as they say. But, I still think life is great...either way. I'd really like to think everything we are doing today is making a world of difference for tomorrow, but I look back and see the era our parents came from and can't help but think, "didn't they think the exact same things...yet things are this f***ed up?!" They did think the same...and a lot of good it did. All I can say is enjoy it while ya got it! I know I am.

Here is the biggest problem with all of this -- these bills, cap and trade and the like -- should have nothing to do with politics, yet this is what it's become. It's nothing BUT politics, sneaking things in, adding hundreds upon hundreds of pages into this bill at the last minute while running over a few bullet points while ignoring all the other garbage stuffed in those pages. The entire process is republicans and democrats making stupid point and stupider counterpoint, and none of them truly care how will this affect the people. Who the f*** cares, anyway, as long as they get to show the entire world that they're better than the Republicans, we'll call it a victory of epic proportions! The results these types of bills have on the people are unknown, with no guarantees, and depending on who you listen too, it's either the birth of awesome itself (if awesome was tangible), or it's the end of the United States as we know it.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 11:52 AM) Ok, I need some quick education. this cap and trade bill being voted on today has raised some eyebrows. As many of you know, I work in an environment where all democrat ideas are the work of satan and republican ideas are the gift of god, ok, over exaggerated, but you get the idea... democrat ideas are bad. So, here is the most recent thing sent to me: How is this? Heating, cooling and lighting a church, or any building that size, probably produces a lot of by product? Not sure, other than that. My guess is they don't have to pay a lot of those bills and may in the future? Who knows, really.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 11:49 AM) Maybe i'm just to young to understand. In my lifetime (born in '82) Jackson was nothing but a weird child diddler. So I don't get the love, even if he did have the best selling album of all time. I was born in the 70's, and I can tell you I remember the Pepsi era in which he transformed Pop music as we know it. It wasn't just one album, but a span of years, over a decade in which he was at the height of entertainment. He wasn't some flash in the pan that had a few lucky hits -- when he wanted to write hit music, he did. And he did it time and time again.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 11:40 AM) I'm thinking they should just get rid of the party system. It's becoming almost pointless. It's almost like you have no choice because everyone's the same. Amen.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 11:23 AM) Lost in the extremities of this fight is that there is enormous opportunity here for win-win. Getting quickly into alternative energy sources that are renewable means becoming a technological leader, world-wide, in those areas. Not sure if people have missed this, but, for the past few decades, America's world strength has NOT been manufacturing. Its being the leaders in something, anything, cutting edge. Get there first, produce it, sell it round the world. Then when it matures a bit, other countries start building their own and ripping off the designs, that's fine. We can't compete price-wise in those secondary stages of manufacturing, so we should accept that reality and push to the front of the line again. Get there first. This has the side effect of the US actually leading. Someone has to go first, so, let's do that and make money in the meantime. Out of this, we get a better economy, cleaner air, the ability to wipe our hands of many things in many bad foreign regions, a better natural environment, and jobs. So, there can be plenty of debate on HOW to do this, but whether or not to do it is no debate at all, IMO. Do it, do it right (the most worrisome part), and DO IT BIG. This is something I thought of and agree with -- but it still has to be done right. We seriously need to get our budgets fixed (across the board) and start paying down the debt we carry. I would put money on us being the world leader in this technology in the future, but if all of these crazy things we're doing bankrupt the nation, none of it matters.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 11:07 AM) Question, how much will this bill help the environment. From what I've read, the most difference it will make is a 2/10's of a degree, and that's being very generous, drop in temperature in 100 years. That's the problem, it's all theory and they don't actually know what different it will make. That said, less pollution is good for us, even if it doesn't change global warming/climate change in the least. I'm also in the camp that says Global Warming is a bunch of s***, as the worlds been warming and cooling for billions of years...but humans love to take credit for things they have no control over, even if they don't really understand it. This is especially true if money is involved...and there is more money flowing into this than almost anything in the history of mankind. I also don't know for sure one way or the other, so I won't claim I do. In the 60's/70's the money was in global cooling. Today, it's in global warming/climate change (they changed it to climate change after the past few winters have shown a cooling effect), but that's where the money is... I just wish people would shut the f*** up and admit they don't have all the answers, one one side or the other.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 10:49 AM) And this bill isn't structured to be smart? It is limited in how much of the carbon credits are auctioned off, most of them are given out at first to industries that aren't hurt. It's cost is very limited. The money coming in is rebated out and the people in this country least able to afford it actually will get money back from it. It's not a hard cap. It's been negoiated downwards heavily, especially to wind up helping farmers. I'd say that a smart bill would be one even stronger than this one, but I'm willing to take this one because of what we've seen in Europe; simply setting up a flawed system and letting it run for 5 years produced results that were vastly stronger than what was hoped by the designers of the bill in spurring energy efficiency and renewable energy development. Basically, if you're opposing this bill because "We need to be smart about how we go about doing it", then there is no environmental bill you will support. That doesn't mean the discussion can't be edifying. If we aren't going to be smart about it then no, there is no bill I will support, regardless of the type of bill it is. I think we can be better, smarter and more efficient, and I don't think everything we do needs to cost MORE. I see no way this doesn't end up costing more, no matter what weird math they attempt to use to make it sound cheaper. If we were in a position for things to become more expensive, whether that be by a little or a lot, I probably wouldn't care, but we aren't...as a nation, we are in massive debt, and it's getting worse. If we can't get our finances righted none of these initiatives and bills will matter in the future, as it will bankrupt this country, and it's citizens. I keep hearing things about "limited cost", well...what limit are we talking about here, the same limit the country applies to everything?! That means there is no true limit, because we'll just whip out the credit card again! I find our governments fiscal irresponsibility to be careless, again, not just this administrations, and I see it getting worse. This country is worse than the average American with it's debt. Debt is modern slavery. Although not very PC to call it that, that is exactly what it is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 10:34 AM) So you're saying the environment is a world problem, the world clearly is already following U.S. leadership now that it's showing some, and therefore it logically follows that the U.S. should stop showing any leadership and drop this climate bill? I think you just said that, because I never did. What I did say, however, is that everyone has to get on board and we have to be smart about how we go about doing it. Nothing more. I think the US has become a society of over-reactors which leads to making knee-jerk decisions that later have to be scaled back rather than calmly thinking things through and doing it right the first time. I think it's become pretty clear on these types of topics that you and I will agree on very little.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 10:17 AM) I am a bit upset with three daytime starts. I was hoping at least Friday would be a night game. What's up with this scheduling for the Cubs series? Are they trying to save on the electric bill? They like the games for the Sox/Cubs to be during the day because there tends to be less "trouble".

Kick some ass today!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 09:59 AM) Do you have any idea what you're talking about? The spent fuel rods from nuclear reactors are actually what they use to extract the material that they build the bombs from. Anyway...if you want to go in to nuclear waste storage issues, you're in the wrong country. The U.S. government decades ago told nuclear power plants that it would take care of the waste from operating them. The government still has not done so, and so the government pays something on the order of $1 billion a year in subsidies to the nuclear industry so that they can rent storage space at reactor sites. Without that giant subsidy practically every nuclear plant in the country would have been shuttered long ago. On top of that, there are huge swaths of this country that are contaminated from decades of weapons tests and work. I'm not saying we're the best, either, but we're more aware as citizens than ever before. I'm simply saying, and I'll say it again -- the environment is a world problem -- not a US problem. I think we need to do something, but we need to be smart while doing it. If all of our measures make energy unaffordable for some, then it isn't the best way of going about it. We're making strides, and there is a long way to go, but the entire world has to get on board for it to mean anything. Call me a cynic, I just don't see it happening. This world will never be a utopia in our lifetimes. I'll concede I was wrong in thinking this way in 10 years if they show the pollution levels have dropped worldwide -- across the board. I'm just not holding my breath that will happen. Oh, and I never claimed to be a nuclear engineer, either. But I do know much more goes into building nukes than using spent rods, and there is waste created from that waste that still has to be disposed of. But you apparently think North Korea is following all the rules on disposing of it, so there is nothing to see here.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 09:47 AM) Yet you continue to make contributions to the church. That made me laugh.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 09:48 AM) Actually, if you've paid attention at all, the fact that the U.S. is no longer giving excuses has spurred China to rapidly get focused on clean energy. They're spending more money cleaning up their energy sources than anyone else in the world except Germany. Hell, they already have a full plug in hybrid vehicle on the market in China - beat the U.S. automakers by 2 years. They still have the highest pollution, regardless. And while some of China is in on this -- other parts are not. I'm sure North Korea has a great method of disposing of nuclear waste from all the bomb building they're doing. My guess is they're just dumping spent rods into the ocean, because they really care about environmental issues, or what anyone says. http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-0...ent_7508856.htm Their own environmentalists say so.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 09:32 AM) So...since the legislators and President already have a publicly funded health care system paid for by the taxpayer, I take it you're advocating a taxpayer funded public health care system? Only their publicly funded system isn't what you will be getting, so let's not make it sound like it is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 09:37 AM) And it's someone else's climate that gets screwed up too right? Lighting a match = a pretty good metaphor there. Yes, because it'll all be fixed now! This isn't a US problem, it's a worldwide problem, and not many developing nations give us s*** about our environment, or their own. For all the US and other countries are doing/have done by going green, it's meaningless unless China and India change the way they do things, and they have no intention on doing so anytime soon. As emerging countries, they have no intention of doing this anytime soon. As it stands, for all the pollution we cut, China adds that much more, it's like a balance, and nothings changing. If this is going to work we absolutely MUST get everyone on board, sooner rather than later, too.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 08:15 AM) That's what it will cost the government. What does it cost private industry? I bet the hidden fees on that will be quite high. But of course, let's not talk numbers -- let's just say it costs nothing and sleep better. Nothing we do costs anything, which is why we're 10+Trillion in debt, with a deficit upwards of 2.5+Trillion more in the year to come. I guess it is free when it's somebody elses money. The US government reminds me (and it's not just this administration, for the record), of the mafia in Goodfellas. Run up the stores credit, move a case a booze in the front, and sell it out the back at a discount...I mean, why not, right? It's all free. Nobody's gonna pay for it anyway! And then...when ya can't borrow another buck from the bank...you bust the joint out. You light a match.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jun 26, 2009 -> 08:13 AM) That would be a classy move and nice F U to Yoko. I would be very surprised because everyone knows of MJ's massive debt -- that Beatles catalog is one of the few things left worth anything...his kids will be needing that money after the creditors come in and liquidate his estate (and they will the second the news dies down on his passing).

I wasn't sure what to do when Pods had the game winning hit last night and there was no Soxtalk Pods. RIP MJ.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 03:54 PM) Statistically, that is a load of s***. That may be true, but it does happen, even if in rare cases. I pay my fair share of taxes now, and if federal goes lower, state goes higher, etc...it's a revolving circus, in the end, I always end up with less, they always end up with more -- yet they're still in deficit spending. That's life. And for the record, I do realize the rich pay the vast majority of taxes.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) How do rich people take advantage in taxes, when they are the ones paying the VAST majority of them? Some do, most don't. Offshore accounts, having two homes, one in which they live outside the country for a longer period of time than they live in it, things like that help them skate around a lot of tax laws and significantly lowers their tax rates in some cases.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 03:21 PM) I've had people ask me if I tan when outside for awhile. (I'm black) Well?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 02:22 PM) My favorite ones: "Can you see without your glasses?" Why the f*** would I wear glasses or contacts every day if I could see without them? "Did you know you have gray hair?" Yeah, it hasn't been there for 12 f***ing years, and I have NEVER looked in a mirror since I was 15 when I allegedly got my first one. Next you're gonna tell me I'm black or something. Any of you guys got any? Yes, and from another heated debate on this board, people now know I work for Blue Cross -- so it's pretty annoying when people ask me if I have good health coverage. Yes, I'm seriously asked that, a lot.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 02:25 PM) I'd be absolutley thrilled if that was an option for my family. No insurer will allow us to do that because of pre-existing conditions. Yea, pre-existing cases are rough -- I think it's one of those times the government should do something -- but there needs to be definite limits as to what power they have/do not have. It's a very complicated, and it will undoubtedly be a very expensive thing to fix considering how deeply rooted it's become in modern America.