Y2HH

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:45 PM) You should see how bad our email client is. We use your email client (Lotus Notes) and yes, it's terrible, but even that's preconfigured upon a new laptop/desktiop. Launch the app, and it asks you to create a password. That's it. That's all the user has to configure. And if they run into something they need further help with, we don't tell them to Google it. Someone actually calls them, or goes to them and helps them configure it.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:44 PM) Oh, now we have to be experts to install apps. Listen to yourselves. Might as well abolish the app store for anyone not in IT or over 50. No point right? That's not at all what anyones saying. It's not their job to install apps, it's their job to do whatever we hired them to do...and that's all they should need to do. Why? Because THAT is their job. Their job is NOT to configure applications and troubleshoot them. Somebody else gets paid to do that.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:41 PM) Not the case at IBM and we're the second largest company in the world. But there's a guide to do almost everything, so it's not that hard. That means you're behind the times, but that's not surprising considering it's IBM.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:36 PM) Oh but they have to anyhow. When they get their work laptops, they have to configure something. There's a documented process to get everything in most big companies. So whether they like it or not, they'll have to do it. Follow some directions, read it for 2-3 minutes. My parents ask me how to do stuff related to tech from time to time. You know what I tell them? Here's a guide how to do it, read it. If you continue to give people tech support of some of the simplest things in the world, they'll never learn. Don't know something? Ask Google. You're probably just lazy if you can't even do that much. No, there isn't. I work for a big company, and EVERYTHING on a laptop/desktop is PREconfigured for the user through AD. They do NOTHING. They don't even have access to install anything or change most any configuration option. Your AD group determines which apps get installed, which configuration options get set, and what access you have around the network. I can't think of a single thing a user has to configure on a stock install these days.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 04:18 PM) No I sound like a person who's an engineer and works in software development. We don't find installing apps hard, people I work with don't find it hard, my friends don't find it hard. My mom might, but she doesn't even have a smartphone. You guys are trying to make something that is such a small issue sound like it's a big issue. It's not. And YOU shouldn't find installing apps hard. YOU aren't the person/people that require help for every little thing, either, and people of all ages require tech support on a CONSTANT basis for everything, from phones to pc's to mac's. If everything you're saying was true (and it's clearly not), tech support wouldn't be as big of a business as it is, and a tech support crew wouldn't exist in every big company in the world, either. Engineers in tech and software development tend to not need much tech support. But you make up about 5% of what most large companies are. The sales people, marketers, executives, etc...none of them care to know how something works, none of them want to install anything, and none of them want to configure anything. THAT'S WHAT THE f*** THEY PAY OTHER PEOPLE FOR.

QUOTE (SnB @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 03:38 PM) It's always amazing to me on how passionate people are about which cell phone operating system they use. It's a phone, it's really not that big of a deal. While I agree that this is the king of first world problems...people are passionate about the things they use, so I don't see an issue discussing it, or even defending what you like using.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 03:15 PM) No...your priorities change in life. Other things become important. I'm incredibly tech savy for a non tech individual but at the same time, a lot of this stuff in the grand scheme of what I'm responsible for and what is important is low on my priority list. What I want is a freaking device that does want I want and makes it easy and simple to do what I want. I don't want to have to do a bunch of steps and make other people do a bunch of steps for it to work (easy or not...I'm not wasting my time with that crap). PS: Out of all the people I know my age, I am probably the smartest at using smart phones and I spend the least time customizing them or doing anything with them. You are talking like a college kid who doesn't have a job and has all the time in the world to tinker with crap. When you get older, you don't have as much time to do that, unless that happens to be important / your thing to do (which is fine, it just isn't mine). I'm 39 now, and while I find that sort of tinkering fun from time to time, I do that for a living, so when I get home, I want to do other things like play a video game, read or play with my kids. The days of doing this and that and convincing ALL of my friends to install the same apps and whatnot are behind me. I just don't care. If you wan't to text me, text me...or iMessage it, but no, I'm not opening a chat app for you to send me a message you could have sent a default way that works across all devices. Just like I won't install Facebook Messenger, because I don't need ANOTHER chat app when people can f***ing TEXT or email. I don't want MORE apps. I'm sick of apps for every little thing that can still be done easier ways.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 03:05 PM) The idea of never having to worry about a broken or scratched screen is more than just "kind of cool", at least to me. Get me a waterproof phone with sapphire glass (or an equivalent) and I'll be in love. I believe they broke quite easily from falls, just not from bending them and they just didn't scratch.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 02:44 PM) Wait, so the new iphones aren't using Sapphire glass like they were rumored to be using? That was the ONE feature I've ever seen in an iphone that I was actually jealous of not having on any Android phone. What a letdown that must be for Apple fanboys. The idea was kind of cool, but the second I heard they cost about 16$ each to manufacture, I figured there was no way that was actually going to happen yet beyond some beta-test phones considering Gorilla Glass 3 panels cost 3$.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 02:14 PM) I haven't had a single person in my age group ask me how to install an app. Never. Installing an app isn't usually the problem, it's configuring it, signing up for it...not using a password of abc123, etc. The 20 somethings that grew up with technology that "works", are probably the worst of anyone I have to support. They all think they know what they're doing...and none of them actually know what they're doing. They're not as bad as the baby boomers, though.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:48 PM) No, I'm thinking like a person in their 20s. I grew up with technology, as did most of the people in my age group. We are a large portion of the user base. We understand how to do simple stuff like that. And it is what it is, it's SIMPLE. It's not hard and it's not supposed to be. You're trying to make this about people who didn't grow up with technology, which I don't think should be the case. Actually a lot of your age group knows less than you think. They're the bulk of the people I have to support on a daily basis.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) Does installing an app require you to go to the store to buy oil and tools, get under your car to drain the oil, etc? That sounds a lot harder than clicking buttons 3-4 times and typing in your email and password. Come on man... It's an exaggeration, but it applies to what you're saying. None of those things are hard to do. But yet and still NOBODY wants to do them. You're thinking like a tech person, not a regular joe that simply doesn't care. Half the people I know don't even know you can delete apps off of your phone after you install them. I'll even get calls that "my icons are all shaking for some reason". Don't think like a tech. Yes, I know you and I can do all of these things, and have done them...the other day in a fantasy league my wife wanted to use Skype so she could chat during the online draft...gave up after 2 minutes of trying to download an install it, the mic wasn't working, this wasn't working, etc. I had to go up there and do it all for her...she tried, but then said you know what, f*** this it's too complicated, I can do without.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) Care to elaborate? If it was so great, why didn't the majority of users use it for anything other than another IM client? Only the techiest of techies used it for video chat or audio chats...you know who uses Facetime? Everybody. Even 80 year olds.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:36 PM) Google Talk's been on Android for a long time and I believe that did video chat for a long time. That was also a default app. And it was absolute s*** until Hangouts came around.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:34 PM) Installing an app on your phone is nothing like changing your car's oil. Seriously, you're trying to over-exaggerate this. I hope you realize how silly your comparison sounds. I disagree. I think both are very simple tasks, because they are. But having to download an App, install the app, create a login/password for the app, login to the app successfully, figure out how to add people to the app, and then notify them that they ALSO need to do all of those things are a number of steps that a LOT of people just don't want to perform. Are they all easy steps? Yes. And so is changing a cars oil.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:29 PM) All a moot point now since there's Hangouts... Right, but that's my point about Android stuffing half assed features into the OS just for the sake of being able to say, "We can already do that!" Android had the ability to do video chats for years, but it took them until 2014 to finally bring Hangouts to a place where people would actually use it on a mass scale. Hangouts is good, I even have it on my iPhone, but everything Hangouts does, Android kinda/sorta did in a convoluted, complicated and very crappy way for years now...

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:28 PM) You made the mistake of buying a Samsung phone. Android does have an equivalent called Hangouts and is required to be installed on every Android phone, but that wasn't the case 2 years ago, which is what Y2HH was talking about. And the idea that having to do a few extra steps to sign up for something is ridiculous. Nobody's asking you to do anything complicated. If you can't do it, you shouldn't own a smartphone. That's like saying if you can't change the oil in a car you shouldn't drive one. While *I* can change the oil...I don't expect most other people want too, nor would they care too learn, either. Smartphones should be ... smart enough that for basic functionality, such as making a phone call, or performing a video chat, you don't have to know anything...it just does it.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) Why should I have to do all of those things when it is so easy on an apple device. I don't want things that take time and mean everyone has that app on there phone. Personally I hate having a million apps, I want a select few and only ones that I use and use regularly. That way when I go to click something, I know where it is cause it is actually used. I don't want to scroll through 8 pages to find the watch espn app or check my fantasy football lineup. Facetime and the ease of it is fantastic and it blows me away that the android phones don't have a similar set-up used. Since my S4 busted and I've gone back to Apple, other then the fact that I'm using an old Iphone and am on 3g (which sucks), I have re-remembered how much smoother all of the interfaces work...how much better the email function is on apple vs. google (which is hilarious since gmail on the web is phenomenal but the standard email app on android devices sucks). Bottom line, since under most circumstances, when you buy these products new, they are the same price, I really believe the apple version is less buggy and far more refined. Sure it might not have a few of the bells and whistles of an android but what it has will work and work smooth and be functional. I do think Google realized this which is what Android L aims to fix. L (Lollypop?) looks very refined in comparison to what I considered terrible UI design in all prior versions of Android to L. I know a lot of people like it, I just did not and do not...I hate helping people at work with Android devices, I find that UI so horrible and it's always so different across different phones it's annoying. If Apple has 3 settings for a given app, I guarantee that SAME comparable app on Android has 5,432 settings, of which nobody knows what 5,300 of those settings even mean.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:14 PM) I think you're overestimating how stupid people are if they can't go download an app and sign up for it. People over the age of 60 are a different story, but those aren't the vast majority of mobile users. It's the requirements of having to do all that...when it really shouldn't be (and isn't necessary for the most part). Then you also have to deal with Microsoft's shenanigans, which they can't get away with right now, but the second Microsoft took control of the mobile space, trust me, Skype would disappear from iOS and Android tomorrow, and MS would be like, well...you can buy a Windows Mobile device! This should be base functionality in any mobile OS stuck on a phone with a forward facing camera (all of them these days), and it should be as easy to use as Facetime...and granted, Hangouts is easy NOW, but damn it took years to get there.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) People had to jump through hoops for video chat on Android? I've never experienced that. Before Hangouts, there was Skype and a few other apps. Google Wallet has allowed you to add all major credit cards for a long time (like 2 years) and there are MasterCard terminals in a lot of places. They haven't pushed it as hard as they should have and the carriers are pushing their own service (yeah, that one that is named after those terrorists...carriers = terrorists). But Apple isn't going to get this pushback from carriers. Google either doesn't put all their weight behind their products or they don't have the influence. I think it's more likely the former since they make so many products. Things get lost in the shuffle. Meanwhile, Apple might have 5 services and put more resources into getting things in order. They also have a higher influence on retailers and carriers. NFC is also a lot more than just mobile payments, but we've discussed this before. Skype isn't part of Android, and it requires all parties download a separate 3rd party app, sign up for it, login to it, configure it, etc...this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. No, it's not a big deal for us, but for my mom, or certain friends, forget it...you know what's easier? Having them touch the Facetime button. And I already went over Apple's push for NFC over the shoddy implementations on various Android devices...yes you can install your credit cards, so what...they hardly bothered working with the numerous credit card companies, etc...and this isn't Google's fault at all. Google created software that supported NFC, but the NFC chips, installed by the likes of Samsung, etc...need to be pushed by Samsung, unless they're implementation works across the board with HTC, Sony, etc...which I'm sure they're not all that interested in. And while yes, I agree NFC is more than just mobile payments, I think mobile payments is the big use case for NFC -- but that's only IF (and that's a big IF even for Apple), everyone gets on board, and even with Apple involved, I don't see this happening quickly. I don't want my device usable at 3 specific stores, but not usable at others...for this to work it's going to take time, but the manufactures have to back it to the point I can use NFC almost everywhere I go. Then and only then will it be useful to me.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 11:29 AM) Rarely are things built into Android OS that aren't working very well. The openness, though, allows the third-party vendors to use customers like lab rats/beta testers. I don't think the desktop OS comparisons quite work. There are shades of Windows and Linux. It is like Linux to the extent that there are lots of versions, it is appealing to developers and tweakers, and there is an active community trying to build new features itself and/or fix annoyances in the OS. But, like Windows, it is the un-glamorous and widely available option. Much like Windows has usually come to describe "all which is not Mac," that is close to true with Android as well. Like Windows, more features are there but haven't always been well-marketed or super-refined when they reach the end user. Design hasn't always been a priority, much like Windows. The reputation that comes with running on low-end devices is there, too. I know a bunch of people who will never touch an Android device because they bought a s***ty phone that ran Gingerbread in 2011 and they assume everyone's experience must be like that. This is a very fair opinion on it.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 10:07 AM) Android is a lot more like Windows than it is Linux. Especially when you take user-base into account. I find most features tossed into Android (and it has all of them), to be half-assed implementations that require multiple fixes because it was rushed to market. After they're fixed they're much better, if not equal to anything Apple or Microsoft has, but upon initial implementations they're tossing them in there just so they can say they were able to do that for years, which is what you're seeing with that comparison. Android has had video calling for eons...and it's just NOW getting good via Hangouts, to where a regular user can do it without configurations, tweaks, settings, etc...meanwhile Apple's facetime was so simple from the get go that people actually used it. Aside from the iPhone, which basically took ideas from Windows Mobile 4.x, and other operating systems of that day and brought them to mass market in way people actually wanted, Apple is never first to the dance...but when they finally arrive at the dance, people notice. They did this with the iPod, the iPad, the Mac, etc...so if features exist, odds are Apple won't have them for a while, but when they have them, they'll be usable from the get go. This has been my experience over the years...and when I was younger I wouldn't have cared...I enjoyed tweaking stuff and figuring out how to make it work, but these days...when I hit a button, I just want that button to do what it says it can do, which is why I lean toward iOS. Look at NFC...a technology I always thought was a gimmick because Android vendors tended to toss it into their devices but never bothered to take it further than that. Great, I can bump a playlist. The problem with that? You can text and email one, too...and you don't need an NFC chip to do it. Apple finally introduces NFC to the fold YEARS later, but took it to a level the Android vendors never bothered with: getting Visa, Mastercard, American Express (and soon Discover) into the fold and worked directly with huge retailers like Target, Walmart, McDonalds, etc...and with POS terminal vendors to implement their technology so it would roll out to stores, gas stations, etc...will it end up being useful or just another NFC gimmick? I don't know, time will tell...but at least Apple is trying to make it something better than the crap it is now.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 08:45 AM) http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/09/09/ip...right-by-users/ A more sober Android-centric look at iPhone 6/+/iOS 8: I have to agree with that. The iPhone 5 was nice, don't get me wrong (I have one), but it wasn't significant in any way like the 4 was over the 3. And iOS8 is basically what iOS7 should have been. As a person that uses iOS in combination with quite a few Google services (gmail, docs, maps), I much prefer the iOS+Google experience over the Android experience. Android is basically the Linux of the mobile world (not because it is Linux), but because if a feature exists, or is even thought of, it's thrown into Android...so the thinking that Apple is playing catchup to Android is akin to saying OSX or Windows are playing catchup to Linux...there really isn't a feature in the world Linux doesn't have, or that you can't hack into it...but they're not just done well most of the time. But keep in mind, all of this is opinion.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 08:21 AM) I found this both more entertaining and useful. I don't know why, but this made me laugh.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 10, 2014 -> 08:16 AM) Saw this on Twitter and I can't resist...and yes, of course it's not a legitimate comparison yada yada Yea, pretty dumb.