Y2HH

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 28, 2013 -> 10:30 PM) Why do you people not link your contacts with your Google account? I don't know how many Facebook posts I've seen where people say "new phone, text me your number". This. Hell, I'm an Apple guy who uses gmail with cardav and caldav on my iPhone/Macs. I mean, why wouldn't you take the two seconds to set this up, import them and never have to worry about contacts again? No, I don't use iCloud...I have everything in iCloud disabled except for find my iphone.

Don't miss college at all.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 07:47 AM) how often are you making router changes that resets are really an issue? Rarely ever, but it's still annoying and could be accomplished without a full reboot.

Walter White did the voiceover for the new Apple commercial...which just reaffirms that us Apple users are better than you.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 06:17 PM) Honestly I had weird results with linksys for a long time where I had to keep resetting them etc until I bought my AirPort Extreme. The range has been awesome. The biggest flaw in the AirPort Extreme is that you have to reboot it whenever you make changes ... that said, it is, bar none, the best wireless router I've EVER owned. But that's not surprising considering Apple was one of the very first companies to do WiFi, they been at it the longest, and the hardware speaks volumes.

http://www.foolis***.com/vb6-projects/cryptoprevent/ Making that a tinyURL, as our swear filter is catching foolish-it as foolis***. http://tinyurl.com/pzhysay

QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 01:31 PM) Sin taxes just hammer poor people, usually. Someone addicted to cigarettes and is just scraping by isn't going to add to their stress by not smoking. They're just going to have give even more of their income to the habit. The same with taxing Cadillacs, etc. Middle class people want that s*** and they reach to get certain status items. You tax the money when it is earned and/or take all that is left when they die Absolutely NOT. I think Milton Freidman answered why a 100% inheritance/death tax is a really bad f***ing idea quite well...

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 09:11 AM) Maybe it's because we grew up with email and I am in technology but I dont understand people just flat out opening attachments. It makes no sense to me. Exactly this.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 07:20 AM) First of all I reject it is a punishment to live in this country and pay taxes. There are very few places on the planet that do not collect taxes, so I reject your implication that we should not tax at all. So if you agree with me that it is necessary to tax people, then the debate becomes how much to tax and in what manner. If you think we shouldn't "punish" the wealthy by collecting any taxes, then you can stop reading here, but I really doubt that is the case. A few reasons why I believe we should revert back to the tax rates of twenty and thirty years ago. A graduated income tax is the fairest. Money that is used for food, clothing, and shelter should not be taxed as heavy as money used for a third or fourth home, European vacations, and manicures. So higher income gets taxed more than lower income. If we looked at the country that could be built and maintained based on a tax rate that just the poor and middle class could afford, we would not have the infrastructure, the military, and all those roads, forest preserves, etc. If we want a first world country, we need to collect more income than a third world country. The wealth, in most cases, came from the purchases that the middle class and poor made. I agree with a lot of this, but the issue isn't simply federal tax...it's a combination of taxes and other fees that nickel and dime regular people. Effectively, after deductions, I pay about 7-8% federal income tax, however, if you add up all the other taxes on top of that: Such as state/county/city tax, amusement tax, soda tax, city sticker tax/fees, license plate sticker tax/fees, water bills/water tax, sales tax, liquor tax, property tax, phone tax, tax on tax, etc...when all is said and done, it ends up being astronomically higher than just 7-8%. Everywhere I go, and everything I do, I'm getting taxed. Hell, I can't even drive most places without paying 5$ in tolls...they even have tolls that charge you to EXIT the f***ing highway, which feels like a f***ing entrapment scam. Essentially, the way the system is set up now, we double/triple/quadruple dip (and beyond) money that's already been taxed again and again, to the point that because of how they wield the tax code from the federal all the way down to the local level, it feels like a form of punishment. I'm fine with a graduated income tax, but with such an overhaul, taxes all the way down to the local level would have to be overhauled with it. It's insane how much we are taxed and most people don't even realize how much they're getting nickel and dimed, yet even local governments are beyond broke.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 01:02 PM) Which is appreciated. Now how many middle class folks start and maintain businesses of less than say 50 employees versus those that go on to be mega employers? Without any research, my guess is the real job creators in this economy are middle class folks that start and keep running small businesses. If we put more money in the middle class pockets it will create more jobs than concentrating it with the rich. I don't disagree. Like I said, I think their idea is that if they cut taxes, people spend those savings in the form of investing in new businesses or hiring new employees, however, I'm not sure that actually happens.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 12:56 PM) You were the one dubious of my claim that the companies I worked for were started by middle class owners. Yes, but to be fair, I'm dubious of everything.

What do you call all the lawyers of Soxtalk at the bottom of the ocean?

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 12:38 PM) OK, how about Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Apple, etc. Where there founders rich or middle class? Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak were middle class -- however, Mark Markkula, who invested in Apple when they were building computers in Jobs' garage, gave them 250,000 dollars as an investment into Apple in 1977. In 1977, 250k was a LOT of money.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 10:10 AM) Since I was in management and in a couple cases friends with them before they started the companies, I am positive they were middle class. The two companies I worked for the longest were both started by middle class guys. Chuck and Art worked as sales reps in the same industry before striking out on their own. Their initial investment was being able to work a year without drawing a paycheck and a $125,000 line of credit against their homes. Jim worked his way up in the company to President before buying the company. He was living in the same house outside Milwaukee he and his wife bought as newlyweds. Three bedroom with a detached garage. He drove a 10 year old pick up most days, his kids attended UW-M. I was barely middle class when I started my companies. The Boy Scouts of America were started by an insurance agent from Chicago who happened to meet a Scout in London while on a trip. I'm also thinking of friends that have their own companies, two in lawn maintenance who started with less than $10,000 in capital. I have friends like this, too, but they have like 1 employee...so I wouldn't call them prolific job creators.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 09:58 AM) All have been middle class at best. Dubious.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 09:04 AM) I'm pretty sure I did. It's half of what it was in the 1990's right now and despite 5 years of proclamations about how it is going to keep getting worse, it's been trending downwards. Here's a different version. And none of that mentions how right now 1/3 of the interest being paid on the debt is being returned to the treasury by the Fed. Unless I'm reading that wrong, one of those charts shows it at 1.3%, the other at 6%. That's kind of a massive difference which makes me question the validity of either. But regardless of their accuracy, the point those charts are making is predicated upon everything going to the plan that interest rates will never rise again. Unfortunately, interest rates WILL rise again someday, whether you or Krugman believe that, it WILL happen. I'm not saying it will happen today, or tomorrow, or that they will rise to the levels they were at in the 80's, but it WILL happen, and since this debt will remain on our books long term, being that we never pay down any principal, a day will come when interest rates affect it in a very very bad way. Which goes back to my original point, that SOMEDAY, and I don't know when, but someday, these interest payments are going to be so massive, that a unsustainable amount of federal outlays will be used specifically to pay them. The only way around that is to bring that debt level down before it grows to a point that we can't keep up with it. If we've learned anything about the economy over the last 100 years, it's that it NEVER goes according to plan, if it did, we'd NEVER have recessions or depressions to study.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 08:13 AM) Personally I use AT&T, hate it, have a smartphone, and pay substantially less than that. Perhaps you're referring to family plans only? Furthermore, it's worth noting that there are now a large number of providers who offer smartphone plans for 1/2 that amount, for dollar amounts comparable to the amount that a household would spend on telephone service anyway. So...you've clearly made the assumption that the poorest people who own smartphones will buy the same plans as the highest-income people who own smartphones, which is highly unlikely to be the case. Not sure, I'm on Verizon with an iPhone5, I have a plan with unlimited minutes, text, and 1 gig of data, and it's 90+$ WITH a 19% discount.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 07:19 AM) Spin it back for me. Who are the middle class job creators? We are claiming that the wealthy create jjobs for people. Someone here point out the wealthy person that created their job and when was it done. The wealthy don't create ALL jobs, but they do create the vast majority of them. That's not really the argument you're looking for, though. The argument lies within the tax code, and the reasoning is that if we force the wealthy to pay less in tax, that they will use that money to create more businesses which will create more jobs. The reality, however, is that doesn't actually happen. We lower their tax, they save money, and simply pocket the profits. The fact is, if a ANY person can create a business that will make them money, they will do it.

QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 08:49 PM) There is actually a lot of research demonstrating the relative opposite of what you're describing (but exactly what you're embodying in your observation). When we "silently observe people" via Facebook, we see the best possible version of their life. People think their friends on facebook are happier and richer than they really are. This is because they will post pictures from the Blackhawks game, but not of the ramen for dinner/breakfast or the trailer they live in, etc. If people with little money want to save up to see hockey games, so be it. At some point, many people realize the system is going to f*** them and they just want to squeeze some happiness out of their existence. If I was told it wouldn't be financially prudent to ever go to pro sports games, eat out, etc. I'd spend "frivolously" to make sure it did happen when I could make it happen. It's different when it's a once in a while thing, or what I see on Facebook, where it's and every other day thing, and then have them wonder why they have no money. People use Facebook to tell everyone where they are...all the time.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 08:04 PM) um, no? More people use AT&T and Verizon the the rest combined (by far), and both are quite expensive, upwards of 100$+ with the required and quite low capped data plan.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 01:13 PM) The discussion of debt load versus GDP/GNP is important, however what I think Y2HH was getting at is absolutely a valid point: debt service as a percentage of federal budget. As interest payments have to increase, the ability of government to spend money productively goes down. That is simple reality. Take a look at the future projections of how much of federal spending is likely to be eaten up by interest payments. That, more than creditworthiness or debt costs, is the key problem with the size of the debt. That of course can be addressed numerous ways - and contrary to what some of the hyper-conservatives think, simply cutting spending itself is not a good idea, especially right now. But there IS a reality there that Balta and SS are apparently ignoring, instead choosing to label such fears as "oh that's a big number!", which no one here is arguing. This. And thank you for posting this, I was going to respond but I figured there was no point, since they've overlooked the very point I tried to make in the first place, which you probably made easier to understand. And let's not forget interest rates will not remain near 0 forever, which all budget projections and people arguing that the debt isn't an issue simply assume in every argument they make defending it.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 05:16 PM) How much longer will smart phones be used against poor people? These damn things are not $50,000 mercedes. They have become so tied in to the lives of a broader population that rich dudes write an article a day bragging about how they lived without cell phones for a month and discovered themselves. Smart phones are probably the lowest end of extravagant things people own. If you asked me if I'd rather have a old ass nokia punch phone and keep my car or my smart phone and vice versa I'd seriously get rid of my car. That said a lot of good stuff in this thread and this'll probably derail it. Because most smartphone plans are upwards of 100$ per month and a vast majority of smartphone owners use them to text message, and that's all they use them for. So it's a waste of money, but I agree there are bigger gripes than that to be had. Smartphones have become somewhat of a status symbol so that's probably why they latch on to such an argument. Also, these plans usually end up costing over 2500$ all told, when a cellphone that can text can be had for a fraction of that cost over the same amount of time. I don't know what it's like as an adult to have no money to that point, but I can say if I was that poor, I'd be looking for any way possible to save money, and that's simply an easy one to point at, along with cable tv. That'd be the first thing I cancel if I lost my job.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) Absolutely true. However, the benefits of the transformation of Apple into a behemoth...didn't go to Steve Jobs. He drew a good salary with benefits yes, but he made probably 50 times more money at Pixar than he ever made at apple, give or take a factor of 2. While true, it's not like Apple made him peanuts. He had 5.5 million shares of Apple before he died, worth billions. Of course, this pales in comparison to the 136 million shares of Disney he owned. But regardless, he made millions during his first stint at Apple giving him the money for Pixar and then made billions more during his second Apple stint.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 21, 2013 -> 01:20 PM) Guilty as charged. In my twenties and thierties I was making very nice money and spending even more. If I received a $10,000 raise, I would spend $15,000. Stupid. Now I earn, and spend way less, but have more money I think we've all been there at some point -- but some of us learn from our mistakes, others never do.

...and speaking on this thread, this is actually a very interesting subject. I know quite a few people that view me as rich, and I'm really not, but it would be impossible to convince them of that. In comparison, it may appear that way, but a lot of the reality behind it is overlooked. First, my wife is a stay at home mom, we have two kids, etc. Outside of my mortgage, I have no debt. Now, an interesting thing about Facebook, Twitter, and other such social media is it allows us to do is silently observe people. It doesn't take long for me to realize why I'm viewed as rich because I always seem to have money, while they view themselves as poor. All one needs to do is look at their timeline to see where they spend all their money ... which is eating out seemingly EVERY DAY. The last place I ate out at was Buffalo Wild Wings...29$. Meanwhile, I see picture after picture of these "poor" people at Blackhawks games, Bears games, restaurants, etc... Yes, I'm rich then. Because I don't spend more than I make. The worst part ... when your success is attributed to luck. Yes, my company pays me what they pay me because I'm lucky. That's what it is.