Y2HH

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 04:56 PM) I can't help but think of all the times that I went outside of my parents' house to talk on the phone so as to get privacy. I would always walk around aimlessly because I'm a fidgety person. I wonder how suspicious I looked. Probably depends on a lot of factors.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 04:36 PM) I'd rather we change society to eliminate this type of bulls***, though. I think we agree, but there are certain things you have to just "give up on" until we evolve as a society much more than we have. Why don't you try sporting a toothbrush mustache for a few days in public and see how society reacts? Is it fair? Nope. Does that matter? Not at all, as I guarantee you'll get laughed at by some, and profiled and dubbed a racist by others.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 04:35 PM) This was cross-posted with my response to shack, but the same thing applies. Pragmatically, it is something some people have to consider because of racist stereotypes. But that doesn't mean that we as a society need to accept and perpetuate these stereotypes. No, we don't, but until the idiots and dregs of society get over it and stop doing exactly that, the easiest way to combat their stupidity it is to just NOT dress that way.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 04:33 PM) I'm going to say it again, but it's only "associated with criminal behavior" for non-whites. Pragmatically, is this something non-whites have to consider? Unfortunately, yes. That doesn't mean we should accept it as an unchangeable fact of nature, though. It's like blaming a girl who was wearing a skirt for getting raped. No, f*** that, blame the rapist and blame the people clinging to racial stereotypes that view black men as criminals. I think we agree, just from different viewpoints. It's NOT fair, but it is what it is. Therefore, I'd go out of my way to NOT "look the part". For f***s sakes, it's just cloths, change them.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 04:28 PM) Black men should tailor their clothing choices based on racist stereotypes of them? I would if I was black. How's that for an answer? I just gave an example in which we all do it to some extent. It's not fair, but we do it...and I'd go out of my f***ing way to do it if I knew it was going to get me cross looks in public. Is it fair that I can't wear shorts and a hockey jersey to work or they'd look at me like a scumbag and profile me as such? Nope. Clothing doesn't make me who I am, but I know how I'd get looked at for doing it, so I don't.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 04:15 PM) But again, it's only associated with criminal behavior for certain people. I wear hoodies all the time. So does my wife, my brothers, my mom, but nobody would profile them as criminals based on that. Nobody associates Bill Bilicheck with criminal behavior because of his hoodie. Nobody would write a column in a national newspaper talking about the "uniform" they're wearing. It's unfair, but because one person can get away with doing something and another person can't, the only thing you can do about it NOT try to get away with it, DESPITE how unfair it is. Is it fair that one of the religious symbols used in Buddhism is a 90 degree Swastika and I can't wear one around my neck because Hitler decided to turn it 45 degrees and turn it into the one of the most vile symbols ever seen, DESPITE it being a completely different symbol in that it's turned 90 instead of 45? No, it's not fair, but if I ran around wearing one people would profile me...and I'd expect it. Being a blonde/blue eyed American with a German name/ancestry doesn't help, either...but that had f*** all to do with me.

I don't get racism or racists (TRUE racists, that is), because who the f*** has the time for this kind of empty hate bulls***? I have a life to lead, a job, a family, bills, kids, a future to plan...so why would anyway want to spend what precious free time they actually get on stupid s*** like hating someone because of a physical attribute they have no control over? How about you judge them based on their actions growing up, and as a person, instead? You know, things they actually CAN have some control over. I won't pretend to go out of my way to show people I'm not racist...I just don't care. I'm sure there are plenty of black people out there I'd dislike for various reasons if I was exposed to them on a daily basis, just as they're are plenty of white people I'd hate for the same reasons, or of whatever color. Considering all the s***bags in this world, be they white, black, brown or blue, I'm glad I've lived a life and had jobs in which I only have to interact with relatively educated people of all colors, and that probably has a lot to do with my attitude toward others. I'm a dick to everyone...and I'm nice to everyone. And believe me, it's not because of how they dress or what color their skin is. I have better things to do. Like post here. Wait.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) ?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 02:05 PM) Yeah, that's not what I mean though. That is just general douchebaggery not actually supported by anyone. I'm talking about when either: 1) black people are "the real racists" when they call out people who are doing or saying something obviously racist 2) white people telling black people what is or isn't racist and/or plugging ears and saying "get over it" when they try to talk about issues that affect them I have to ask you...do you ever find it annoying when white people (OR lighter skinned people) go out of their way to prove they're not racists? I've been seeing a LOT of this as of late, and it makes me believe they're closet racists. The words, trying too hard, come to mind when I see it...so I was wondering your perspective on the same.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 01:44 PM) Watch Sean Hannity for like 90 seconds see also: "the blacks are gonna riot" and associated comments Yes, there are idiots out there saying idiotic things. That's what they do. But to conclude that in light of what happened, that only black people are still racists is flat out incorrect. Yes, there are a lot of white people (and other opportunists) pretending to care right now, when they really don't, but this is just ... not a logical conclusion.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 01:30 PM) The new thing I keep seeing, especially in light of this verdict, is this insistence that the only remaining racists are black people. Yea, I'm gonna have to go ahead and say no to this.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) People just blow my mind. Why in the world would you beat a random mofo for vengeance? They should be going after Zman or the jurors (I'm not condoning that by the way I'm just saying that would make more sense) It's like the world has an IQ of 40. Going after jurors doesn't make more sense. At all. If anything, this is a dangerous precedent to set. Very dangerous.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 16, 2013 -> 09:03 AM) This. And my father is white, but for all intents and purposes I'm black when people look at me. My skin is dark or at least light brown. I actually considered you purple...but good news for you is I like purples.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 07:33 PM) George Zimmerman being worried about vigilantes is like Derrick Rose questioning why it's taking someone so long to come back from an injury.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 12:04 PM) But doesn't the prosecutor have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't in self-defense? Proving it wasn't in self-defense might not have been possible with a reasonable doubt burden, but it could be with preponderance of the evidence. Though in a civil trial I would think it would be on Zimmerman to prove (by preponderance) that it was in self-defense? This is where I get confused. Since Zimmerman was acquitted, it had to be because of self-defense, otherwise he'd be guilty of manslaughter by default, would he not? The only way around getting convicted of manslaughter would be in self-defense. And so, since a higher court than a civil court essentially ruled he's innocent by self-defense, wouldn't that supersede the civil in that he's now granted immunity as the law is written? This is the problem with laws...they're written so complex that you need 50 people dissecting them in order to figure out what's what.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 11:08 AM) DIRECTLY TO YOUR F*CKING BRAIN There's no defending this. The iPhone 5 is the Aaron Hernandez of smartphones.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:57 AM) iPhone 5 kills a woman. http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/apple-in...eath-6C10636004 Something is off about this...mobile phones draw between ~4-5 volts. That's less than sticking your tongue on a 9 volt.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:45 AM) Yeah, this is manslaughter but for the self-defense aspect. By giving the not guilty verdict, the jury bought Zimmerman's story that he killed Martin out of self-defense (it's not like the jury found him not guilty on a lack of evidence for killing). ...and this is where the issue of self-defense will come into play in a civil suit. I may be mistaken or misinterpreting the law as written in Florida, but I believe it grants complete immunity against civil cases in cases of self-defense. Being that Zimmerman was found to have killed Martin out of self-defense, wouldn't that grant him immunity to a civil case? As the law is written: 776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.— (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement office 776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013. 776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:19 AM) And THAT is why black people are so pissed about this. This doesn't translate well from tweets and Facebook posts. Mine was lamenting "how they see us" or something like that. Lost in translation long ago. It makes us feel like we are pariahs and a subclass of 3/5 of a person and the resistance to trying to make that point feels like a slap in the face. This sort of profiling goes way deeper than most would even care to think about, to the point that people often profile against themselves, without even recognizing it.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) Being black and walking while otherwise minding your business is apparently a valid reason to call 911. Comforting to know that's the country that I live in and that's what people see when I'm not wearing a suit or playing with my son or doing something else inherently non-threatening. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can stop a person from doing this. People profile, all the time, all around us, and we usually don't even notice it.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:06 AM) I don't think Zimmerman was a dirty racist. I think he was a guy who was very frustrated over the rash of crime in his neighborhood and was trying to improve the situation. However, I stand by my belief that if you are not a police officer, you don't follow/chase somebody unless you actually see them committing a crime. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman never intended to actually confront him. It is realistic to expect that if somebody is following/chasing you that you might initiate a confrontation out of fear. This is exactly why you don't do that. A 17 year old male who hadn't actually committed a crime ended up dead because Zimmerman went a little bit too far in trying to prevent crime. It clearly doesn't rise to the level of murder, and probably not probably not even manslaughter, but there has to be some level of accountability here. This has everything to do with the type of person Zimmerman is. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I sure as hell can speak for myself. If I'm witnessing a crime in progress (other than a kidnapping), I'm calling the police and getting the hell out of there, I'm sure as hell not chasing someone down, though. The ONLY way I'd pursue is if I saw someone trying to take a kid against his/her will, and it was obvious this was a kidnapping in progress...damn sure I'd call the police and risk my life to stop it. But if I see a "suspicious" guy lurking around, I'll call the cops and as far as I'm concerned at that point, I'm out.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:06 AM) I don't think Zimmerman was a racist (meaning I don't think he was itching to kill a black kid) but I do think he caused Trayvon's death as a direct consequence of his actions, it would not have happened otherwise, and that he ultimately bears responsibility for it. That responsibility apparently is no reflected in Florida criminal court but it certainly will in civil court. However there are a ton of other racial aspects that are being ignored or are misunderstood and in some cases they're cheered and encouraged unfortunately which really pisses me off. I agree, I think this was the result of his poor judgement/actions.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:02 AM) Really? twitter thinks otherwise. Unfortunately for Twitter, there is this: http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/zimme...-white-officer/ A year before killing Martin, Zimmerman tried to get a white officers pension revoked for beating a black homeless man and covering it up. Because that sounds like something a guy who hates black people would do.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 09:59 AM) For all we know Zimmerman intended to stay 30 feet away. It was 20 minutes of "stalking" or "chasing" right? If Zimmerman really intended to confront Martin he had every opportunity to do so. But he didn't. He stayed in his car and kept his distance until he couldn't see Martin anymore. I mean look, I don't understand why people think that's such a horrible thing. In the City of Chicago if you get robbed you don't even get police to show up at your door anymore to look around. You call it in and report it. The only hope you have of catching the criminal is if he comes back and robs other places around you and is eventually seen by someone. So being a little proactive in your neighborhood is about your only shot. Debate all you want about whether Zimmerman is just a dirty racist, but his intentions to me were perfectly reasonable given the circumstances. Nothing points to Zimmerman being a racist, no matter how badly some people wish he was.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 09:29 AM) I love how Y2HH was pontificating about avoiding this thread because of the insults being hurled by both sides and then without provocation, throws an insult at another poster...hooray for consistency I also agreed with Lostfan and deleted the posts. It was wrong of me. Furthermore, I'd like to apologize to Balta for the cheap shot, he's right, it was a classless act.