GreatScott82

QUOTE (Donaldo @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 07:16 PM) I'm praying for it. I remember when Kenny was pretty transparent about his goals for our team. Nowadays he can't be found and butts in at the weirdest times with the media to defend the honor of Hahn and their piss poor decisions and lack of direction. He has officially put a strain on his relationship with the fanbase. The fans do not trust him anymore. Nor do they respect and/or trust that Hahn is really in charge of player personnel. KW should not only be on the hot seat, but he should have left a long time ago. Us White Sox fans are trapped into hoping these stubborn executives can finally admit to their wrongdoings and set a new goal for a rebuild and be clear and open about it. It's a shame JR is too old to even care about wins or loses anymore. For him it's only about profit and personal relationships. If this was any other franchise, Hahn and KW would have been fired a long time ago. Robin had to walk away on his own terms (apparently?) Another blinder by our fantastic front office. Hopefully KW will seek employment elsewhere since JR is too wimpy to fire anyone these days.

Also, if they do in fact tap into the FA market or make more 'middle of the road' acquisitions, because they feel 'They are close'. And their explanation for avoiding a rebuild is that "White Sox fans don't have patience for that!" I WILL FLIP MY LID!

The fact that KW and Hahn are still around is beyond me. I am 100% convinced they will be around as long as JR still has a heat beat. The only way we see significant front office changes is when we see a new ownership. The Blackhawks and Cubs have both proven that. Rocky Wirtz saw the problems within the organization and made changes right away! Tom Rickets followed suit when he took over the Cubs. Now we can hope--Jerry and his cronies can change and come up with an actual game plan. However, how many more failed attempts and playoffless seasons must we experience before that happens?!? White Sox fans deserve better. We are loyal and hungry for a winner. If that means a 2-3 year rebuild so we can be really good for 5-6 straight seasons-- i'm on board. In fact, MOST White Sox fans will be on board.

QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 01:57 PM) Aren't the Cubs about as rich as the Dodgers/Yankees/Red Sox? Seems to me they could afford to keep a lot of their current players even when they come knocking for new contracts. Perhaps they can keep their players? Regardless, it still may be challenging for them to keep ALL of that talent in the open market. The fact of the matter is, they have about 4-5 more years of being really good. By the time they reach that 4th or 5th year, the White Sox should be knocking on the door.

The way I see it, the Cubs are in year 2 of their 5 year title contending window. They will be knocking on the door every year until these kids become FA's and begin asking for Dodger/Yankee/Red Sox money. The Indians are also in the beginning stages of their competitive window. With that said, the White Sox need to rebuild and trade off their assets. The target date should be 2019 or 2020 to be ready to compete. The White Sox arrival would ideally mean the departure of this Cubs era of sustained success. (2015-2020). The time is now to trade off assets like Sale and Quintana to obtain near MLB ready prospects. I was looking at the farm system depth today and I am starting to realize that we are getting some decent depth down there. (FINALLY!) This may or may not be the thread to talk about this but with the likes of Spencer Adams and Alec Hanson being ready in the near future. Rodon ready to move up the rotation, Shields here to eat up innings (and thats about it) and Fulmer ready to learn as a starter at the MLB ready, the time is now to take advantage of the market. Sell high on Sale and Q and lets continue to beef up the farm. Let's reestablish a new core and let's do this the right way. No more re-tooling. Let's rebuild. With all of the assets-- this rebuild can be accelerated to a point where they can be ready by 2019 in my opinion. The free agent market for starting pitching is pretty weak. The market for Sale and Q this winter will be HUGE! I have never seen KW or Hahn sell high on any of the White Sox veterans. I really hope they do so now. Trade these guys: Sale, Q, Abreu, Melky, Frazier and Robertson. This should reshape the entire roster to a point where we'll have plenty to be excited about moving forward. A feeling us White Sox fans haven't had in a LONG time. The hope of a real success future.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) An impossible thought from last night... Say the Cubs do get knocked out by the Indians. If the Cubs come to the White Sox with a player package starting around Kyle Schwarber, could a deal get done? What would it take to get a deal done? This is an intriguing, yet impossible thought for sure. I think everyone knows that Schwarber is a DH playing in the NL. If the Cubs were smart, they would deal Schwarber for a front line starting pitcher. If the Cubs want Sale, the White Sox will likely request Schwarber AND Baez. I just don't see the Cubs ever giving up on Baez. Although, if the Cubs do enter a bidding war with Boston, Texas etc-- a Baez/Schwarber package might be the most intriguing.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 24, 2016 -> 12:48 PM) I don't think anyone is faulting the "effort". The people in charge care but this is also a results business and that is shown by the won / loss record. To say that hasn't been good for basically the last 10 years would be an understatement. Mark Yep. Enough is enough and its time for a change. And since JR is too old and weak-willed to make the necessary upper management changes, our only hope is that they somehow can change themselves. It would be nice to see them take the rebuilding approach for once. Its time to sell high on assets (Abreu, Sale, Q, Melky, Frazier etc..) Take advantage of the thin FA market and totally revamp this roster. Set the target year for 2019 or 2020 and let the newly acquired talent develop.

Plus it's pretty hard to trust Hahn/KW to do anything right in regards to player acquisitions.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 21, 2016 -> 07:17 PM) We will see. By all accounts there will not be a total rebuild / tear down this off season. JR apparently does not want that and is not willing to wait five years for it to succeed (assuming it does). It will be "go for it" yet again and hoping to catch lighting in a bottle. But again, we'll see soon enough. Mark Its a shame you are probably right. JR doesn't know how to plan for long term success and due to his age, we are Forced to see more half assed trades and Mediocre to poor FA signings. #InsanityReignsOnTheSouthside

I keep seeing all this crap about the White Sox moving out of Chicago because of the Cubs recent success. First off, the last time I checked; the Cubs still haven't won the WS. I'm aware that they are the odds on favorites and will likely make it there this year, but until they hoist that trophy-- the Cubs are still the Cubs. With that said, it pisses me off that we have to cheer against them in the post season rather than cheer our Sox. It pisses me off that JR is afraid to make difficult but overdue necessary decisions for the better of the team. With that said, JR still owns the team (until his death), KW and Hahn have unlimited lives and will keep coming back regardless of what happens on the field. We are forced to wait around and see what direction this team goes this winter. With the fanbase openly disappointed and discouraged with them-- I do believe we will see a bunch of trades this winter with an emphasis on building a new and exciting core. Chris Sale will be the first to go. If KW and Hahn do it right, trade off their assets and bring in a plethora of young talent, the White Sox may be ready to go for it as early as 2019. Fans have said, they would be more than supportive of a rebuild and with the assets they have to sell-- it will be an accelerated one for sure. By 2019, will the Cubs still be good? Probably, but the White Sox will be younger and more hungry. Will JR still be around in 2033 when the stadium sweetheart lease ends? No. That means a new owner will take over and the White Sox will Continue to play at the G-spot. I have a feeling the next owner will be from Chicago and I'm hopeful that they will stay here. Here is to hoping the Cubs have minimal success until 2019 (meaning very few or zero WS championships) and to hoping KW and Hahn actually do this accelerated rebuild.

JR apparently doesn't accept his own failures anymore. His front office apparently enjoys spending 8+ years of failure attempting do the same thing over and over again. They refuse to admit the Robin hire was a terrible mistake nor take any responsibility for their own failures. Same coaching staff= same half assed lazy approach, means no long term plan, means more mid market signings and trades. Get ready for another horrible season in 2017.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 05:26 PM) why oh why does this org refuse to clear out dead wood? Because it is ran by weak willed individuals at the top. Also, they just wing it every year and hope to catch lightning in a bottle with their subpar acquisitions. Im convinced they are lazy and are too buddy-buddy with their coaching staff. Oh and the way they handled the Robin departure was embarrassing. Oh and maybe they should stop the fan shaming. We are calling them out because they have failed us over and over again the last 8 seasons. Perhaps for once, they can be more transparent with their long term plans and goals? Gosh, KW and Hahn are damn lucky to work for the White Sox, any other organization woulld have canned them a long time ago. To me , this is proof that JR is getting dementia or just doesn't care anymore.

QUOTE (shipps @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 11:02 AM) This leads me to believe that there will be little changes with the roster as well. Yep. Get ready for year 3 of the infamous KW three-year phantom plan of failure. No direction, No accountability, No future. My favorite team sucks and is run by a bunch of clowns. #FireHahn, #FireKenny #SellTheTeamJerry

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 10:58 AM) This organization is a joke Yes it is. The lack of accountability is absolutely insane.

In regards to the rebuild. I need to see it to believe it. I have ZERO trust in this organizations front office. I can honestly see them ONCE AGAIN attempting to patch up holes with odd ball free agent signings on the cheap and trades for veterans. Which once again, gives us ZERO long term success hope. Ahh, I remember a few years back-- Rick Hahn loved using the phrase 'sustainable success' What a joke that has turned out to be. Get ready for more patching, White Sox nation!

Hahn and KW are beyond lucky they work for the White Sox. If they were apart of any other organization, they would have been fired a long time ago. With that being said-- can you finally cut your losses and rebuild? Not a half-ass 2013-14 mini 'retool' job. I am talking a good 3-4 year rebuilding plan. Let's face it, Renteria really doesn't bring more fans to the stadium, but he does have a track record of working well with young players. The free agent class is weak, no need to sacrifice your 12th pick or anything. You have plenty of assets, start wheeling and dealing. Lets do this the right away. No more patch jobs, odd ball veteran signings etc...

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) I generally tend to defend FO decisions, if only because everyone around here vehemently pretends to have enough information to call everything black and white when the truth is that none of us have any idea what we're talking about. But even I have to join the criticism bandwagon for the last 7-8 months of decision-making. 1. To this day, I feel like they foolishly cut the acquisitions short during the latter half of the offseason. There were a million good short AND long-term reasons to lay out for a final OF bat (and/or Ian Desmond), and they fell short. I don't get the strategy there. 2. The Shields thing was always terrible. I spent way too much time around here digging up and typing out the reasons we shouldn't sign him when he was a free agent, and ALL of them still applied to trading for him. I thought passing on Shields as a free agent was evidence that Hahn took pitching peripherals seriously, but when he made the trade, I now have to wonder what info he's using. Honestly, I'm convinced JR influences most of the moves. He has been on record in the past that he LOVES signing veterans 'with something to prove' Also, he knows these players are cheap and are a low risk type acquisition. Hence, the ridiculous mediocre to poor signings by KW and Hahn over the years. And when he DOES give KW/Hahn the green light to get out of the comfort zone-- KW/Hahn sign the wrong player and they come here to suck or be mediocre. Regardless of who is at fault, their approach is beyond stale and it does NOT work. In order to for KW/Hahn to leave, i'm 100% convinced that JR needs to sell the team or pass away. Get ready for another half measured offseason.

I feel bad for even starting this thread. I should of known the rumors were too good to be true. KW and his puppet--Rick Hahn will continue to drag us along to .500 land in 2017. I miss the days when the White Sox were relevant in this city. Unfortunately, we will likely have to wait until JR sells the team for this to happen.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 08:26 AM) If you look at this logically, with what WSD is reporting, I don't think KW is leaving. With Robin, after the leak they wanted him back, but the leak no negotiation and the news there would be a press conference the day after the season ended, it would lean toward Robin isn't coming back. And that is what happened. WSD said KW wouldn't be at the press conference. If he really was resigning, wouldn't he be there to answer questions? Love him or hate him, he has been around forever, and walking away with no answers as to why doesn't add up. Do Team Presidents/ GMs attend after season press conferences after being let go? Did Schuler attend the press conference when Jerry fired him and promoted KW? You could have a point but I'm just curious, because it's been so long since changes were made at the top.

There are rumors out there stating Kenny Williams will finally step down from his post on Monday. Can this actually be true?

After the Robin leak, I highly expect him to come back. This organization is so out of touch with their fanbase its pretty sad. They are also apparently out of touch with knowing how to build a good team. I'm embarrassed with everything going on. How on Earth does KW, Hahn and Robin still have a job? I hate to say it, but we will not see another winner/ actual plan until JR sells the team and/or passes on.

I could not believe this report when I saw it this afternoon. If it's true. How the hell do expect me to take JR seriously when he says 'I really want to win now" The lack of consequences within this organization is unbearable to witness as a die hard White Sox fan. I stand by my original hypothesis that this team is run like a country club. A bunch of friends hanging out and no matter if you win or lose, they are making money and having fun together. It's obvious they don't care about winning anymore. If they did, Robin would have been fired after the 2015 season. If JR cared about winning, he would have fired KW after the Ozzie-KW divorce of 2011. If he cared about winning, he would have fired Hahn after putting together another bad MLB roster in 2016. What other organization retains a manager after 4 consecutive losing seasons? Has there ever been a MLB manager over the last 50 years keep his job after failing to make the postseason in his first 5 seasons as manager? We deserve better as White Sox fans. It's pretty sad that ownership and upper management have no clue and can truly care less about the fanbase's desire for necessary change. The White Sox have fallen into the land of irrelevance when their crosstown arch rival has become a very relevant baseball monster of a team. The Robin-Hahn-KW triumvirate of stupidity era has been the worst of my lifetime. I'd gladly take the Bevington days back over this crap.

I've been following from afar. Have not been watching the product daily since the end of July, but will occasionally check in to see if anything interesting is going on. If anything, I've been closely eyeing the Twitterverse to see the latest in managerial rumors, white sox direction etc.. If the KW/Hahn two headed monster of dysfunction would have acquired young talent at the trade deadline, I would likely be watching everyday. Unfortunately, other than Rodon's progress or Anderson's play, there really isn't a whole lot to hang my hat onto. Although I am very doubtful KW/Hahn can turn this disaster around, I am very curious to see what on Earth their plan is this winter?!? Who will the next manager be? Will they stupidly sacrifice their first round draft choice for an aging free agent acquisition? Or do they simply plan on obtaining talent through trades? Is a rebuild really out of the question? If so then why? Their half-measured approach over the last 8 years has really sucked. The farm system is STILL in pretty poor shape and the main roster is not that good.

My hope is for the team get younger and aim toward a 3 year rebuild program. I feel Dave Martinez would do wonders with younger players and get the most out of them. Even though we clearly know they will continue to try and scrap together a roster via the weak free agent market and mediocre trades, I would still like them to sign Martinez to a 4 year deal. That is my hope-- the reality: scrap together another mediocre roster, sign an oddball free agent that will cost the team their first round draft pick and will sign AJ or Konerko to become manager.

QUOTE (bjm676 @ Sep 22, 2016 -> 09:45 AM) Please no Konerko. I don't want to end up hating him, like we all hate our current manager. Just be prepared to be disappointed, whoever it is. It's the White Sox way. I was happy with the Manuel hire (at the time). I was happy with the Ozzie hire (at the time) The Ventura hire was the beginning of the end for my trust in KW. KW hired his friend to replace Ozzie. The problem was, his friend had ZERO coaching experience at any level. At least the Ozzie and Manuel hires were justified via coming from World Series championship teams- both being that of the Marlins. If winning is a priority, they NEED to explore all avenues this time around including that of winning organizations. Dave Martinez and Sandy Alomar need to be atop that list. If they hire PK or AJ-- im officially done being a White Sox fan.