GreatScott82

Wow..Can this possibly finally be the end of the KW era?? I'll believe it when I see it. But I'm intrigued that many of our insiders think KW will go after the season. I really don't understand the logic of them coming out and saying "RV isn't going anywhere" If this is the case, I truly hope he decides to step down on his own.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 03:52 PM) Then they should be trading their best mlb assets to further that goal, because otherwise you are wasting them on mediocre, meaningless seasons. There are 3 paths to go down at this juncture: 1) Recognize you have Sale/Abreu/Rodon and push all your chips into the middle and try to win over the next few years. Trade anything from the minor leagues that isn't bolted down to try and take advantage of the elite talent you have currently on the big league roster; 2) Continue building from the ground up, recognizing that you need to develop position players to balance out the young pitching you've been developing. Hope you can do this quickly enough to find a window before Sale/Abreu/Rodon leave via FA or their skills begin to erode; and 3) Balance the present with the future, recognizing you have elite talent on the roster now, but not enough. Move assets deemed not part of your "future" to bring in assets that can contribute now or in the near future. It's pretty clear that our FO chose the third path. The risk of taking the path you're advocating for is that by the time this all comes together, you may have wasted Sale and Abreu's best years, and some of Rodon's best years. At some point, you've got to recognize what you've got and give these guys an opportunity to make the postseason. This was well written. I appreciate your input. I am indeed advocating for a farm system build up. However, this can be accelerated with the trades of your most desirable assets- Sale or Abreu or even both. Or you can try to accelerate this by dealing off the 2nd level of assets in Melky or Quintana. If you trade off your 2nd level of assets and keep Sale and Abreu, you are definitely hoping you can bring back MLB ready positional guys who can contribute as early as 2016. My issue with this route is that we may be in fact waisting the prime years of both Sale and Abreu and will just continue to be mediocre. The White Sox as they currently stand are essentially in baseball hell. What I mean by this is that they have limited assets coming up from the farm system and they have aging veterans under performing. I really have zero faith that this team can compete next year with the current constructed roster or with the guys they plan on promoting from the minors in 2016: (Anderson, E. Johnson, M. Johnson, Thompson, Montas etc..) It will likely take a full season to truly assess their progress at the MLB level. At best they will likely win 75 games. That pretty much means it will be yet another season wiped away for Sale and Abreu. Hence stuck in baseball hell. With all of this said- upper management needs to pick on a direction and stick to it. This season pretty much exemplifies that this team was not yet ready to truly compete for a division title. As excited as we were to 'compete again', we just were not ready to do that yet. Eaton, Garcia still have work to do. Micah Johnson needs to learn how to play defense and they identified the fact that they need upgrades at SS AND C. In order to let players like Micah Johnson and Tim Anderson figure it out at the MLB ready, we must be patient. My hope is that they sell off assets in attempt to accelerate position player depth development. Give it two more seasons to develop, trade for and draft prospects before they truly go for it. If the fear is that Sale and Abreu will be washed up by 2018, then maybe they should consider selling high early rather than later.... Because if they do choose the route of prospect patience, development and farm system growth- they should be pretty darn close by 2018. No more middle ground, they need to choose a direction and go with it. If Hahn is truly a fan of 'sustained success', then this is the path to explore.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 11:18 AM) I still fail to see how the past offseason created inflexibility in regards to the framework of this team over the next few years. The whole purpose of the direction they took was to balance today with tomorrow. While I was not a fan of the LaRoche signing, it won't cripple us. The other deals are not blocking anyone who's knocking down the door at Charlotte, with the possible exception of Johnson, who can be brought up in less than 2 weeks. I just can't understand why the fact that they took a shot on '15 and missed has some devastating consequences for '16 and '17. Although the moves they made in the offseason doesn't necessarily hurt the 2016 or 2017 chances for the main roster, they still lost out on a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick during this years amateur draft. At this point, they need to be focusing on building up a farm system that still ranks on the bottom half of baseball.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 09:45 AM) JR will probably decide that RH still needs a babysitter. Based on this season, hard not to see otherwise. KW most likely had more influence on the free agency acquisitions and the Samardzija trade than Hahn did. If KW is 'babysitting' Hahn, we sure as hell need a new babysitter running the shots or just give Rick the chance to do his job properly. Its more than evident that things have gone stale with KW at the top. The organization needs a philosophical change and it starts with letting KW leave.

The Sox cannot sacrifice any more draft picks. If they want more offense, they better trade for it. The only name that intrigues me that will most likely be available via trade this winter is Puig.

Chris Rongey needs to go. I really hope WLS does not bring him over. He brings zero knowledge to pre and post game analysis and just states the obvious. I find it strange that the things he argues are completely out of left field in an attempt to support Robin as a manager. He claims that players cannot be taught new things at the MLB level, that they are what they are. I find this logic ridiculous. if this is the case, and it is all on the players, why doesn't he ever blame Hahn or KW for putting this crappy team together? In regards to Ozzie JR. He will say anything to make his old man look good, even if it's at the expense of other people. In summary... Rongey and Ozzie JR need to go away.

As much as I blame Hahn the least for all the poor decisions this organization has made over the past 8 seasons, I'm actually quite happy a reporter even came out to ask the question of job security. I almost feel like the lack of consequences this organization represents demonstrates an acceptance for poor results, poor drafting and at best mediocre baseball. Changes need to be made at the top. If it's not Hahn, it better be KW. If JR is not going to do that and actually accepts this lack of direction and poor decision by his President and/or GM, perhaps it's time he sells the team. I don't care how old you are as an owner, grow a backbone and demonstrate that their are consequences for consistent failure. My hope is that moves will be made this winter. KW and Robin will part ways and Hahn can finally bring in his own managerial choice, build his own farm system and after a few seasons of futility, right the ship. Unfortunately, I lack faith in JR to do what's right.

QUOTE (LDF @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 02:43 PM) in my opinion, if the sox had a decent talent up and down the lineup, a lack of a productive catcher would not be that noticeable. That was probably the mindset of Hahn and KW. Unfortunately, since you haven't seen offensive production out of 3B, SS and 2B as well, having a horrible offensive C makes the lineup stick out like a turd in a punch bowl. Flowers is a back up catcher in a starters role because of lack of depth in the farm system. After the 2013 season the Sox could have signed McCann to alleviate this issue but the Yankees gave him stupid money. Under this regime, expect Flowers to be your starting catcher over the next 2 to 3 seasons. It's cool though, Chris Sale loves pitching to him!

As long as KW is here, Robin Ventura will be the manager. C'mon guys he has made progress since 2012! 2012- 85-77 (September collapse) 2013- 63-99 (Hmm quite a bit of a drop off!) 2014- 73-89 After adding Abreu, Eaton and Garcia 2015- 78-84 (Projected final record according to win percentage) In a year where you add 5 key free agents which sacrificed draft picks and add a #2 starting pitcher, you only will likely improve by 5 games? Something is wrong here. Only in the White Sox organization you can have three straight losing seasons and keep your managerial job. Only in the White Sox organization you can have three straight losing seasons and keep your President of White Sox operations job and GM job etc. How will they spin it? I can see the quotes now. "If you look over the past three seasons, we have improved gradually and the arrow is pointing up. There is no point to panic and point fingers. Our job is to put the best product on the field and to obtain talent so we can have a period of sustained success. " Yadayadayada... same old bullcrap! You have all FAILED! Do you your job and get a real manager. As of right now I have zero faith that they will fire Robin. I have zero faith that KW or Hahn will go anywhere. I have zero faith they will make the best decisions for this club long term under JR. I really hope they prove me wrong.... I just can't see that happening.

QUOTE (LDF @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 02:35 PM) oh i agree with you, but i have the up most confidence that he is gone after this season. I just don't see KW leaving anytime soon. He is a huge part of this organization's problems, yet JR gave him infinite lives after the 2005 championship. Unless Toronto attempts to bring him over again this winter, I just don't see him leaving. Apparently JR likes lumping two guys to fill one role. You have Gar-Pax with the Bulls and KW-Hahn with our Sox. KW doesn't value prospects and obsesses over highly priced veterans and starting pitching. From what I gathered from Hahn so far is that he does indeed value prospects. Once KW goes, I'm very curious to see how Hahn's approach changes in regards to building up this farm system. Assuming they do NOT go after highly priced free agents this winter (which they shouldn't!), they will have two first round draft picks. (Assuming Shark swims off into free agency). Hopefully with Lauman out of the way? The White Sox can have a tremendous draft in 2016 in the first 5+ rounds. I really want to see Hahn deal some veterans this winter as well. I want to see Hahn truly maximize a return for guys like Quintana or Melky etc... I want 2016 to be 100% committed to stocking up the farm system with prospects AND the main roster with younger talent who can be ready at seasons start. If KW sticks around, they will likely go hard at retaining Shark which would lose that supplemental draft pick. He would probably try and even go after a Cespedes, Upton or even Heyward in Free Agency (which would lose another draft pick) and once again all focus will be off the farm system which they can't afford to be at this point. KW thank you for 2005 and 2008 but its time for you to go!

I think a rebuild is LOOOONG over due! Since this organization can't draft they have tremendous assets in Sale, Abreu, Quintana and even Melky. I posted my disappointment in this organizations approach in the "Dissappointment Thread" and here is what I had to say in regards to a rebuild: The organization has no choice but to be disciplined it terms of trying to 'add' pieces. They are in no position to trade prospects away. In fact, they desperately need to add prospects to a still well below average farm system. Thats what happens when your organization cannot draft for more than a decade. It forces Hahn to continue to look into trading away the only asset this team has which is starting pitching. In 2013 it all started with trading Peavy away for Avi and Montas. During the winter of 2013, they traded Hector Santiago for Eaton and Reed for Davidson. Since this team won't even consider the idea of trading Chris Sale, they MUST look into trading Quintana this winter for positional players who have tremendous potential or younger talent whom have already made it in the big leagues. This repatching and retooling non-sense must stop. This team needs a two to three year rebuild. If they continue to try and patch up holes via free agency and not address the actual problem, which is a lack of prospect depth in this system, they will continue to be a perennial average to below average team with a below average manager. Since you cannot draft, you better damn well consider acquirering prospects via trades. Melky can likely bring something of value back this winter as well. Since KW and Robin aren't going anywhere due to the 'loyalty' game JR prides on, we can only hope Hahn convinces them both that this is the best and only way to go in an effort to make this team a true contender again. I don't give a damn how old JR is, they need to do whats right! Hire some real scouts, draft some real damn positional prospects and lets right this ship. You cannot fool Sox fans any longer. I hate to say it, but you don't have to look far just to see how obtaining prospects through trades and drafting well over a 4 to 5 year window can transform your organization. (Damn Cubs) I don't want to hear "We can't afford to lose like they did" Well I'd much rather lose for three years than be average and miss the playoffs for the next 10 years. I stand here today, angry, disappointed and frustrated because I know they will NOT do the right thing under this current regime. I sure as hell hope they prove me wrong this winter. For the love of God, please scrap this made up '3 year window' KW mentioned and start a rebuild. In short, they should spend the next three years committed to building up a below average farm system through trades and actually drafting talent.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 01:12 PM) While I was disappointed that there weren't any deals made it is completely understandable given the way things shook out. JR is very sensitive about selling off the White Flag deals get brought up to this day and are almost mythic in nature and the organization has been gun shy about selling ever since getting raked over the coals for that. The return on Shark wasn't going to be enough. Looking at the market, Cueto brought about what you would have wanted to get for Shark and that wasn't going to happen. The draft pick will be worth more to the Sox than the pieces they could have picked up at the deadline for Shark, especially considering next years draft is said to be pretty deep. The cost of rental impact bats was too high, while the pitching market didn't develop as expected, a deal for Cespedes would have been too costly, likely something like Spencer Adams, to justify making the move for this season. If the Sox fail to make the playoffs after making that move you damage your future and help a division rival. The Sox didn't have the ammo to shoot for Tulo and other than that there wasn't an impact bat out there (that was actually dealt) that made enough sense for the Sox to weaken the future to try and win now. Also given what else transpired at the deadline with the Jays and Astros, things got much more difficult for the Sox to contend for the WC. I think not making a deal was absolutely the right move and was a tough choice that Hahn had to make to set up a prolonged period of success in the future. KW would not have been as disciplined and would have thrown the orgs top 5 prospects in a desperate effort to win now. The organization has no choice but to be disciplined it terms of trying to 'add' pieces. They are in no position to trade prospects away. In fact, they desperately need to add prospects to a still well below average farm system. Thats what happens when your organization cannot draft for more than a decade. It forces Hahn to continue to look into trading away the only asset this team has which is starting pitching. In 2013 it all started with trading Peavy away for Avi and Montas. During the winter of 2013, they traded Hector Santiago for Eaton and Reed for Davidson. Since this team won't even consider the idea of trading Chris Sale, they MUST look into trading Quintana this winter for positional players who have tremendous potential or younger talent whom have already made it in the big leagues. This repatching and retooling non-sense must stop. This team needs a two to three year rebuild. If they continue to try and patch up holes via free agency and not address the actual problem, which is a lack of prospect depth in this system, they will continue to be a perennial average to below average team with a below average manager. Since you cannot draft, you better damn well consider acquirering prospects via trades. Melky can likely bring something of value back this winter as well. Since KW and Robin aren't going anywhere due to the 'loyalty' game JR prides on, we can only hope Hahn convinces them both that this is the best and only way to go in an effort to make this team a true contender again. I don't give a damn how old JR is, they need to do whats right! Hire some real scouts, draft some real damn positional prospects and lets right this ship. You cannot fool Sox fans any longer. I hate to say it, but you don't have to look far just to see how obtaining prospects through trades and drafting well over a 4 to 5 year window can transform your organization. (Damn Cubs) I don't want to hear "We can't afford to lose like they did" Well I'd much rather lose for three years than be average and miss the playoffs for the next 10 years. I stand here today, angry, disappointed and frustrated because I know they will NOT do the right thing under this current regime. I sure as hell hope they prove me wrong this winter. For the love of God, please scrap this made up '3 year window' KW mentioned and start a rebuild.

Choke fest all the way around on this one. Terrible managing and coaching. Sox now lose 4 of 5 since the 7 game win streak.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 09:34 PM) You're picture of Becky Lynch under your name, I'm gonna marry her some day. I love her. She is a hotty! And more importantly she is a true LASS kicker! A very talented wrestler. I'm still waiting for a Sasha vs Becky rematch.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 09:27 PM) Pinch hit!!! I just want to shake Robin and maybe punch him for his stupid decisions Can they pinch manage for Robin?

I really hope we can flip Avi this winter. I think it's safe to say he is not the long term answer in RF.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 09:19 PM) RV is a joke to watch on a daily basis. Worst manager in the AL central by far.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 09:15 PM) Or don't listen to me. F off Robin you idiot Yes. I was saying the same thing. Our manager is dumb. That would have been an inning ending double play right there. I know I know "it's not Robins fault" .

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 03:59 PM) God forbid they'd go out of house to find a replacement... My thoughts exactly. We are craving for a new identity yet they keep promoting from within. This pretty much means nothing will change in regards to scouting and development. The scouting approach will most likely remain the same and the farm system will continue to lack depth year in and year out.

I think CarGo will be traded for an appropriate package this winter. Moving him in a deal through waivers will be a little tricky. I'm not saying its impossible, but if I'm Colorado, i'm going to re-test the market during the winter meetings.

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 1, 2015 -> 08:41 AM) Couple bad days for the Sox. Too bad Sale couldn't finish off the road trip. At this point (after the trade deadline), until you get over .500, you're not a contender. August is a very tough month. I'm not even sure they make it to the end of August with a .500 record. I've said it before, this offense has way too many holes. Back in May they won 7 in a row and proceeded to lose 7 of the next 8 games. As of now, they have lost the first 2 after their most recent 7 game winning streak. This team seems to crumble right when they are about to finally turn the corner. I can't blame Hahn for not giving up on prospects like Anderson and Montas for two months of Cespedes. However, I am pretty disappointed he (or should i say- KW) did not trade Shark in early July or even June to better maximize a return. Is it denial that they were out of it? Is it the fact that he thinks they can actually sign him long term this winter? If thats the case, I will really question Hahn as a GM because starting pitching is not the issue with this organization. The issue is positional players who can hit. If they sign Shark this winter long term and trade Q for 2 to 3 positional player prospects, than that actually makes sense. But as of right now, the fans are confused as ever before and that in itself is very frustrating.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) If we're willing to eat Danks' contract then there's no reason EJ shouldn't be the 5th starter, screw trading for one. I agree. EJ is ready to come up.

I really have no clue what the White Sox plan on doing at the deadline? Adding a lefty bat between Melky and Abreu would be awesome heading into the final stretch. I'm assuming that is what they are looking for? CarGo is just as hot as Melky right now. In all honesty, what do you guys think it would cost to get him? We are no position to trade our top prospects.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 11:11 AM) It really is remarkable that they entered this road trip 42-50, and sonofab****, they might just come home 50-50 and in it for the duration. What they have done thus far on this road trip is impressive and surprising. I know Cleveland and Boston are bad, but winning 6 in a row on the road is no easy task. It's refreshing to see them swing the sticks like they have done this week. This team NEEDS to get to .500 sooner rather than later. When was the last time this team won 8 in a row? One fact we need to remember as well from recent memory, this team won 6 straight back in May and proceeded to drop 7 of 8 to division rivals. Not to be negative here, but they can't afford a slip up like that anymore. In regards to being buyers, I'm ok with this as long as it doesn't involve anyone from the our top 10 prospect list. I would hate for this organization to take a giant step backwards just to get into that 1 game wildcard round. I'm definitely intrigued by the notion of a major trade that can increase this teams chances for the rest of 2015, '16 and '17. I'm staying tuned as the deadline approaches!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:53 PM) I think the raw tools of those other guys were just fine as well. None of them had approaches at the plate or thought processes or adaptability to match, and when they couldn't overhaul their games they washed out. If we're thinking about him as a DH...just note, Viciedo at age 23 and 24 outhit Garcia at age 23 and 24. Avi needs to make a serious improvement that the other guys were unable to make. And for a DH...the DH slot still does hit better than the RF slot, on average, so just to get up to average he needs to improve even more with the approach at the plate. Your concerns are justified. With the lack of DH production in this lineup over the past 5 seasons or so, I figured a guy with Avi's offensive potential and defensive liabilities makes sense as an option as DH. I'm not sure why, but I think he will be more productive offensively than Beckham or Viciedo.