fathom

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 07:24 PM) I agree with Mack and that situation with Cotts. Mack never should have been placed in CF. However, I think KW could have done something to get us a better CF if this was a problem. Ozzie must have felt like he was helping BA mentally. That is the only thing I can think of. He must have seen something in him from one day to the next and must have been trying to place him in position to succeed and get a positive mental approach going. That is the only excuse I can see for that. Cotts was struggling and then he places him in that situation? I didn't understand that. That was a bad move. If Ozzie wanted a change made to the roster, KW would have found someone for him. On the bright side, we have less than a month with this current personnel. I know everyone thinks I get on Ozzie for every little thing. Personally, I don't believe I do. If I see a game last night where he puts the team in position to win, then that falls on the team and their execution. I actually thought he managed a great game last night, and he made the proper subs in the 8th inning and even tried a hit-and-run.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 07:17 PM) No one here has ever done it. Ever. Managing little league and HS doesn't count. I think I know some baseball and I played through college, however I could never manage from this seat and tell what is right or wrong. I know situations, sure. I know what to do and what you should do during situations in a game. But that is not what makes you a good manager. You have to get a feel for your team. You have to be there day in and day out. You have to know your players and their limitations and how they are feeling at a given time. A lot more goes into any given situation than just knowing the percentages of what to do. Plus I would place more blame on Joey Cora than Ozzie. Anyone that is going to send a huffing and puffing Paul Konerko around third base to score when the cut off man has the ball as he is rounding third base is a moron to me. I'm just sayin'. Cora doesn't deserve a job, end of story. You mention the point about knowing limitations, and as you see by my sig, that's my #1 rule of managing. I'm sorry, but continuing to put Mackowiak out in CF isn't putting your team in the best position to succeed. Intentionally walking M. Cuddyer to get to J. Morneau isn't putting your team in the best position to succeed. Neal Cotts was in a stretch where he couldn't retire a lefty to save his life. So what does Ozzie do? He bring in Cotts in huge situations to face the dangerous Morneau. Those results were predictable.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 07:10 PM) Ha ha ha. I couldn't get past your first statement without laughing. I will read the rest later. If that really is the case then I blame the players. The players can't get intense enough to play every single meaningful game to get their asses in the playoffs? That is a lousy bunch of players then. I hardly blame the manager. That is a f***ing lame ass bunch of players. Juan Pierre has been busting his ass over the past few months (salary drive), and he's been playing like the way we'd love to have Pods play still. I couldn't agree with you more that this is a lame bunch of players. Paul Konerko is my favorite Sox player ever, but his actions as a captain have been disappointing. T. Hunter is saying how the Twins are TOO amped up to play the Sox. Meanwhile, PK keeps saying that each game isn't important, as there's still a lot of time left this year.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 07:05 PM) Where did I say no other person besides Ozzie? I said any White Sox fan. Now if there is a professional manager that is also a White Sox fan, then that is a possibilty. No person posting on this board could. That is fact. Many things can not even be blamed on Ozzie. I can't blame Ozzie for players striking out or groudning into double plays or hitting pop ups in key situations. I can't blame him for blowing late inning leads. I don't see other teams play, but he has not been the worst. He hasn't been as bad as Baker. He hasn't been as bad as that jamoke in Toronto. I will sadly state that the Cubs have played with more intensity during the 2nd half of the season than the Sox. Of course, they have no pressure on them, and have a roster full of rookies who will always show a little more spark than veterans. There's no excuse for this Sox team to be 5 or 6 games under .500 since the ASB, especially because they've had really no significant injuries this season. How do you know how good of a baseball man anyone on this board is though? Again, I'm not saying myself or any particular person knows more about baseball than Ozzie Guillen. I've just never been a fan of the argument "if you know so much about baseball, then why aren't you a manager". Good stuff though southside, I appreciate a good debate.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 06:57 PM) And you are saying a fan could do a better job and has a better feel for this team than Ozzie does? Because THAT is the argument. Ozzie won a world championship with the White Sox for the first time in 80+ years and fans think they know this team better than he does? Give me an f'n break. You may think you do, but I really doubt you do. There is not one single Chicago White Sox fan that could do a better job with this team. Ozzie had a great feel for the 2005 team, as he almost always put us in a great position to win (except for his use of Marte and Timo). His feel for the 2006 team is pathetic though, and I'm not saying that I could do a better job, but it's pretty naive to say that no person could do anything to help this team besides Ozzie. We're almost 140 games into the season, and Ozzie is making the same mistakes he was during the first week of the season. I will gladly state that he's been the worst manager in baseball during the 2nd half of the season.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 06:02 PM) Ozzie doesn't, but you and White Sox fandom does? Seriously? Come on. You have to be joking. This has to be placed in green, right? I think Ozzie does know and wants him to improve. That is what the article said to me. Please don't think that you know more about the team or the players than a coach does. That is just absurd. You are not there to observe anything that goes on. How could you possibly know more than a coach that does? This argument loses validity when Mackowiak continues to get put in CF.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 04:40 PM) I think a lot more is being made of this as well... They want Anderson to keep getting his ABs after only getting 306 so far this year. The only way a young hitter develops and starts to adjust to his defecencies is to keep getting to the plate and learn to recognize situations and pitches. As for the power vs speed stuff, I think it is pretty clear Ozzie is looking at a Pods-less future and thinking that we need to get more SBs from somewhere. I think he also is saying the obvious, that we get plenty of power in this line up, and it would be more beneficial to the team to have BA causing problems on the basepaths vs trying to hit homers. The Sox really believe in winterball for the development of their players, and it isn't a big surprise that they are pushing Anderson to go that route. As the starter of this thread, I think it's a great idea for Anderson to play winter ball. He has a long way to go offensively, and that will only help. I was just frustrated that it was another case of Ozzie getting upset with one of the young guys, even though they're not even close to being what's causing our problems right now. His comments about either being a speed player or power player are just idiotic.

QUOTE(Wealz @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 04:35 PM) Anderson wants to hang out and party instead of spending time developing his game? Great, so he'll lose 4 mph off of his fastball this offseason (FG) or forget to develop another pitch besides a fastball (NC).

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 03:11 PM) That one is the worst of his sins all year IMO. Keeping starters in to "rest the pen" and try and get his boys in the rotation more wins has cost us games due to them blowing up, as well as made them even more tired. A lot of points on Ozzie can be argued either way, but that isn't one of them. It's astonishing how many 6 inning, 3 earned run starts have turned into 6.1 innings, 5 earned runs this season. QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 03:05 PM) I wish a REAL ciriticism of Ozzie would show up. The pitching sucks, the players cant hit in the clutch, its obviously the manager's fault!!!!! Oh how spoiled you all have become, longing for the days of Jerry Manuel. Rock...I'll ask you this, since you've been around long enough to remember more good/bad Sox times than a lot of us. Do you believe that Ozzie Guillen is doing a good job managing this team this season?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 03:05 PM) I wish a REAL ciriticism of Ozzie would show up. The pitching sucks, the players cant hit in the clutch, its obviously the manager's fault!!!!! Oh how spoiled you all have become, longing for the days of Jerry Manuel. Ok: - His team shows no intensity. Jerry Manuel was fired for this. - He leaves his starters in too long, which not only has led to higher ERAs for his starters, but it hasn't helped them with their fatigue this season. - He keeps playing Scott Podsednik, even though there are other alternatives. - He continues to put Mackowiak in CF, even though Mackowiak himself says he sucks out there.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 03:04 PM) People dont realize that one thing this team lacks is someone who can get hits on a constant basis. Just hit singles. We have alot of power hitters, and pull hitters. One thing we lack is a true grinder. Sweeney showed last night that he would be valuable as he almost saved the game and got us a run if Crede hadnt hit into a DP. How ironic is it that Sweeney seemed to be the one playing care free on the field, while the core guys are extremely tight?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:55 PM) Yes, you are right, we have never had a 3,4,5 combo like this, ever. We are an elite team because Ozzie is our manager, and because he won the big one for us last year. We have had offense like this before, and ridiculously underachieving teams as well. We are in the toughest division in baseball, and still are in the playoff hunt. Weren't we usually in the playoff hunt still when we had our great 3-4-5 hitters in the past? As of right now, this year's team is far too similar to previous Sox teams where their 200+ homer hitting teams just can't manufacture runs when the power is gone.

The ironic thing was that there was a rumor going around the University of Illinois campus in 2000 that he was killed in an animal accident.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:40 PM) We are lucky to have Ozzie as our manager, without him we would never be considered one of the elite teams in the league like we are now. The reason we're close to being an elite team is due to our 3-4-5 this season. You put those guys on any team in baseball, and they're going to be strong. As for the injuries, it's not surprising. Even if a player says he's feeling ok, I think the human eye can see that some of these guys aren't even close to 100 pct (Garcia, Contreras, Thome, Pods?).

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:09 PM) Why not, everyone seems to want to flip out after a bad preformance by a player, I see nothing wrong with giving someone their due when they deserve it. Vazquez went out and gave up one run on three hits against the full strength Boston squad, while getting 11 strikeouts. To me that saids it all. It look like he relied on his fastball more, and got the 4 seamer up above the letters, and he was able to command the 2 seamer on the corner. I was very impressed with him last night, and it does nothing but help his confidence (and if we're actually interested in trading him, it boosts his trade value).

I hate Ozzie as much as anyone, but I'm not going to blame him for being the main culprit if this team doen't make the playoffs. There are too many guys underachieving, and just too many aspects of the game where we're mediocre. We've turned into just a slow, power hitting team that can't run the bases or prevent the opposition from running the bases. That's not a recipe for success.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 04:31 AM) Ahh yes, an Ozzie defender. Lemme guess, it's not Ozzie's fault the pitching sucked the last 2 nights and you want Rowand back since he was blue collar, whereas Thome k's too much. Right? I actually agree that Anderson's defense is a little overrated on this board. He's a very, very good defensive player, but he still has a lot of improvements to be made to turn into a complete CF. I'd really like to see him work on his throwing, as he doesn't seem to be overly accurate with his arm right now.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 05:29 AM) Actually I see fun bad as being more like the Cubs right now, runs are scored horrible defense is played and they find a new way to lose every night. The Sox don't score any runs, they don't make horrific defensive or baserunning mistakes all that often and they basically lose one of 2 ways each night. I mean I love "fun bad" as much as the next guy but it's just not fun at all to watch this team and in order to qualify as "fun bad" the product on the field must be fun to watch in a sadistic sort of way. The Cubs are a perfect example of fun bad lately.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 05:28 AM) Yep, somebody might kidnap me, piss on me, and kill me. Then Ozzie will ask KW to sign him for the bullpen. And people on this site will say that the attempted murder wasn't a big deal and not a good representation of Urbina's character.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 05:27 AM) It's not fun AT ALL, Dan would agree with me and you on that one. However fun bad is way different, it's not fun, but it's just so bad that you can't explain it and you in a sense can't even get mad at it anymore. That's fun bad, and is also where this team is at right now IMO. I will say that I fully expect our offense to mess up every golden opportunity that they have. The exciting thing is that almost everyone has been guilty of blowing a huge chance during this pathetic stretch.

QUOTE(beautox @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 05:24 AM) Shame on you SSI, you ditch prancer and you'll have the team in "panic" mode. I love how the game article on chicagosports says that Ozzie sounded the alarm after tonight's game that we have to start winning NOW before it's too late. This might have been useful about a month ago. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 05:25 AM) Oh Lord, did Ozzie actually say Twinkle toes is just "trying too hard"?? What is Freddy doing then Ozzie?? Oh wait, can't be dissing family right, they don't do that in Venezuela do they?? VIVA HUGO CHAVEZ!! Be careful, if you mess with Garcia, someone might have to "take you out".

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 05:23 AM) If Ozzie was worried about offense we would of ditched prancer in left about 2 months ago. I love how Ozzie says "Pods is just trying too hard". Has anyone ever seen Ozzie and the PFB in the same place at the same time?

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 05:23 AM) I just wish it was in LF, with a healthy Dye in RF sandwiching our fine defensive CFer. That would be a nice change to have the best defensive alignment we could muster, and an arm in LF that stops runners from running at will. He'll be in CF batting 9th, I'm sure.

BTW, Konerko now has hit into 17 double plays with RISP this season. That's awful.

I'm familiar with the "fun" terminology, but this isn't fun at all. Not only are the Sox losing, but the games are boring as hell. We haven't been scoring enough recently to lose games in different, "fun" fashion.