fathom

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 12:46 AM) And they were actually pointing out prime examples of it during the game, getting ahead of guys 1-2 and then winding up with full counts. Hard to argue with them on that. It doesn't make sense though, as our starting pitcher's K rate has gone way down this year. It's funny, but our most effective pitcher this wknd was Thornton, who just went right at guys.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 12:44 AM) No. It was the heater as you correctly state, he wanted to come inside, and got too far inside. He was geeked up I'd imagine and it ran too far in. A mistake. Lack of execution. I know some on this site think Hawk Harrelson is senile but once again he made a great point today. He said they Sox pitchers are throwing too many pitches to these hitters and they are relying too much on these hitters to get themselves out. He said, and I agree with him, they need to go right at these guys a lot more aggressively. And that means pitching inside more, which is an entirely different topic for an entirely different thread. I thought AJP was set up well outside for Tejada's fastball. I don't recall AJP ever setting up inside for Jenks fastball on a righty. And yes, Hawk and DJ were saying that stuff about going after the hitters after THE FIRST BATTER OF THE GAME!

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 12:44 AM) How in the world did Tejada's arm avoid snapping in half then? It barely got him.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 12:37 AM) As far as my eyes could tell, that pitch that hit Tejada was the curve ball? Nope, it was a 98 mph that missed its spot by 3 feet.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 12:28 AM) That is exactly what I would've done ... yank him after the out on Conine. He can't rely on Cotts to get an out vs. Markakis ... we have problems. However that doesn't absolve Vazquez of the blame of plunking Patterson, it was the same dumb mistake Jenks made plunking Tejada in the 9th. Do you sense a pattern. Pitchers not executing. I've come more around to the lack of players execution. It's just terrible. We talked yesterday about the awful pitch selection. The same thing happened with Jenks hitting Tejada. Jenks best pitch has been his curveball this season. As funny as it sounds, his 97 mph is his set-up pitch. There were too many examples this weekend of not trying to put away the hitter...and it was why every hitter for the Orioles had like 10 hits this wknd.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 12:24 AM) Interesting. Sean Tracey gets cuffed around and Montero comes in and keeps the game close. Seems to me Montero and Tracey are the two options for the White Sox if they need a rubber armed guy to give them innings. Neither have been lights out. I'd say there's a definite chance that Tracey might be the answer to long-relief....via trade. If I had to guess, Tracey might be in a Pirates uniform in a few days.

QUOTE(CardsJimEdmonds15 @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 12:16 AM) Trade is official.. Unimpressed honestly.. Loved Luna myself.. He shoulda been our everyday 2B, but we went with that bum AAron Miles.. If anything this does improve our 2B position and offense but the most important part to this.. Miles shouldnt be out there everyday.. Thanks for that much Hector! Belliard isn't afraid to get a big hit. I'm thrilled we don't have to face him anymore.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 12:13 AM) Actually you have it backwards. The reason you leave him in after a cheap HR is to build his confidence. I agree 100 pct that you usually keep pitchers in to get confidence. However, with what's been happening to Vazquez lately, it creates a very unique situation. Maybe Ozzie would have been better off pulling him after he got the first out on Conine that inning, and let Cotts come in to face Patterson (not like Cotts would have got him out ). I'm just shocked that Ozzie gave him the chance to get the loss.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:56 PM) Yes, RJ with an iffy back. Lidle is ok, nothing more, he will have his good games and then in other games he will get torched. Again it all comes down to the White Sox playing better, looking at it from a White Sox point of view. They are right there for the wild card. Right there. If they play great the rest of the way they will make it. Scoreboard watching be damned, they have games left vs. Minnesota, NYY, and Toronto. It's incumbent on the White Sox to play well. The managers decisions won't have anywhere near the impact on this team as the players actually playing well will. He actually gave Vazquez a shorter rope today than he did before. He gave him two batters in the 6th and then yanked him. Vazquez's rope will be even shorter his next start. Yasny got crucified on the game thread because he said Gibbons' HR was a pop fly and not indicative of how Vazquez was pitching. I should have stood up for Yasny but I didn't because the game thread crowd has all the answers. If you have a lot of experience watching the game like Yasny does and I do, you know it was a much shorter leash on Vazquez today vs. his last start. Yes, it is a HR no matter what but his option was Cotts ... who can't seem to get lefthanded hitters out. What had Corey done vs. Vazquez, not much. As soon as Vazquez plunked him his butt was out of there. Short leash. Unless I am remembering it wrong. Guillen has a lefthander at his disposal (Cotts) who lately can't seem to get lefthanders out. Stupid pitch to start the sequence to Markakis ... fastball right down the chute. Poorly located. Nothing wrong with a fastball there if it's in on his hands. Further, he decides to try and stay away from Fahey's bat, of all people, trying to get him out on outside crap. These pitchers are not aggressive because they don't have enough confidence. Guillen tries to build their confidence by giving them opportunities, these pitchers are not coming through. The homer was cheap, but the reason you get him out of the game immediately following that is purely for the mental part of it. I actually did notice the quicker hook by Ozzie, and he wasn't the main person that I blamed for the disaster (involving the 6th inning...he made some other terrible decisions today). He was in a bad spot due to the bullpen's inability to get guys out yesterday. Vazquez just has to man up and get some guys out.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:52 PM) So you're estimate was closer than I thought, but it's still at about $95 million (I'm giving Crede about $6 million). In itself, I guess you were right, but that doesn't include the fact that the Sox will probably be shedding $10 million with the trade of Vazquez/Garcia, and adding in McCarthy. And that's exactly what I was referring to. We're going to have to unload some salary to add parts this offseason.

QUOTE(GoRowand33 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:48 PM) well I guess I was right about the bullpen having problems today Cotts allows all inherited runners to score and Jenks gets the loss so it might have been good to get the win saturday (which is what you want to do), but we suffer a tough loss possibly as a result And who's to say if we lost Saturday, we don't come out flat today, and lose 2 out of 3 this wknd?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:22 PM) I was wondering that as well. And why does Ozzie wait until Vazquez has the lead run on base before he is pulled? Note to Ozzie: waiting for a few more hits doesn't do anything for your bullpen. They still have to get the same amount of outs. Its so apparent when Vazquez is going to fall apart, yet the dugout seems to want to look the other way. Everyone gave Ozzie credit for how he used to let Garland work out of trouble, and it helped his confidence. The thing is, Ozzie has always pulled Garland before he can be put in a situation where he can get the loss. It's similar to what happened in McCarthy's debut.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:24 PM) LOL. Sorry Fathom, I've got to agree with Jim here. You would never know you were "Mr. Pessimism" if we were to simply delete all your posts regarding the Sox and solely look at how discuss other teams. Umm....wouldn't pessimism towards the Sox equate to the opposite view of opposing teams? I thought I had stated in my post about the Yankees that they would be very tough to beat if they can get their guys back healthy, and then be able to keep that lineup the rest of the way. Right now, they only have two reliable pitchers in Mussina and Wang. Johnson looks injured yesterday, and Wright's been awful recently.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:29 PM) Fathom, WTF are you talking about? Look here at the Sox payroll info -- it's not even close to $100 million locked up in 13 players. I don't know where the hell you pulled that number from... There was an article in the Tribune over a month ago which went into detail about the Sox financial situation. In the article, it said that the Sox might have to trade some players in the offseason in order to clear up payroll for next season. The article mentioned how a lot of guys were already signed for next year, and it was above 90 million was what they stated. After reviewing that page, there's a lot of errors. Examples are Dye's not making only 1 million next year, same with Buehrle.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:19 PM) I'm not sure I could create a better lineup on Xbox. SABR geeks will have an erection just looking at that lineup.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:11 PM) I doubt it's actually the worst, but it's pretty damn close. Why the Hell is Mack starting in CF with a lefty on the mound? Is Anderson THAT out of shape? Has the MVP hype gotten to Anderson's head?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:14 PM) Simply put, this team looks like they're in trouble. If the Yanks get healthy soon, their lineup of Damon, Jeter, Sheffield, ARod, Giambi, Abreu, Matsui, Posada, and Cano is going to be tough to overcome. That literally is an all-star lineup.

No way is Vazquez removed from the rotation. Our pitchers right now are making every hitter look dangerous. Either it be Jason Tyner or Nick Markakis or Brandon Fahey.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:08 PM) It would also have helped, you know, earlier in the game, had we had a center fielder out there who could have made a couple of those plays that wound up being short-hopped. Seriously, with a lefty on the mound, why the hell do we put in our worst center fielder? This was one of the poorer managed games of the season, and I don't think many people would argue with that. I'm still puzzled why our middle infield wasn't at DP depth for the last batter.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:08 PM) Honestly, when you look at this team, we are the most talented and experienced in our division. We just had a slump and are pulling out of it. The problem is that we're in such a hole in the division, we have to look at the WC now. The Yanks, if they get their guys back healthy, are absolutely loaded on offense now.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 11:06 PM) I agree, I don't think anything major will happen but I do think there's a good possibility something minor will happen. Tweaking the pitching staff or tweaking the bench. I'll actually be surprised if we don't make another trade for a reliever, especially after what happened this wknd.

This team is severely lacking a left fielder, or even a back-up LF.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 10:58 PM) Well it's time the White Sox start playing to their capabilities. This team could look slightly different for tomorrow nite's game ... we'll see. As for Halladay, the Sox have missed him several times due to fortuitous events, my feeling is bring him on, let's raise the level of competitiveness and start playing better. Yep, I agree. If we can't start beating good teams/pitchers, this team has NO CHANCE of making the playoffs. If we continue to play the way we have been for another 3 or 4 weeks, we're going to find ourselves too far back in the WC standings.

I'm going to ask Christine O'Reilly what she thinks of our chances. Seriously, why try to change the way someone views things? They're White Sox fans...that should be enough for them to get on your good side.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 10:46 PM) Who's overrating them? Is overrating them not wanting to lose them for a player that we would have little to no chance of resigning after the season? A guy that hasn't come anywhere close to repeating his career season FOUR years ago? A guy that would in no way guarantee us a spot in the playoffs? Yep, we can get a better fit for the next few years if we wait until the offseason to trade Fields/Broadway.