fathom

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:36 AM) And if the starter has around 100 pitches and are doing ok it probably shows they know how to adjust to the hitters and/or have the ability to get them out. What it comes down to is this, how is the pitcher throwing, does he have control and command? Is he making the proper adjustments to hitters? When they sit on fastballs in certain counts, are they able to throw an offspeed pitch for strikes? My point is, it's nowhere near as black and white as this board seems to think it is. But that's ok, to each their own. I think you also have to know your pitcher. Guys like Contreras and Garland, as they get tired, can still throw their sinker (a lot of people think that your sinker gets better the more tired you are). However, people like Garcia and Vazquez, who throw a lot more offspeed pitches, have their curves flatten out as they get deeper into games. The issue I have with Ozzie is that he's managing his pitching staff this season like he did last year. Of course, the problem with that is that these guys aren't as effective as the pitchers last year. It's hard for Ozzie, and he's been very cautious this season with his decision making. I really feel like he's not being himself right now, and that's hurting the team. I agree with you though...if these players don't execute better than they have, we're going to end up 10 games out of the WC standings.

We better not see Pods ph over Mackowiak.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:32 AM) Fair enough. So it depends on the level of the mess and who they'd be facing. Of course, there's situations where it's obvious you should bring a lefty in (like having Thornton face Blalock, which was a good job by Ozzie).

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:30 AM) There are too many White Sox that give the courtesy jog down the line on routine grounders. If you develop a reputation for busting your ass, you will make the opposition commit at least 1 error every year, and probably more. Thome gets down the line just as fast as Pods on routine grounders.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:30 AM) It's a little bit different leaving out a starter to work around trouble when they've faced a lineup three times around and have thrown nearly 100 pitches. Especially with the awful numbers some of our pitchers have as their pitch total adds up. We're not the first team to go far in the playoffs and then have our pitchers fall apart the next year.

It's the 8th inning in a 2 run ball game, and there's absolutely no intensity by the Sox. It's sad it's gotten to this point.

Maybe, just maybe, Crede should get a day off. His recent pop up stretch has been pathetic.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:23 AM) You didn't answer the question about the relievers. You said they should be allowed to clean up their own mess, but not the starters. Yes, I would give our relievers the chance to clean up their mess. Unlike the starters, most of our relievers can get a big 2 out strikeout. Obviously, if they go out there and load the bases with no outs, you might want to bring in a reliever. However, if there's 2 outs and a runner on 2nd, we don't need to be playing the matchups like we have.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:20 AM) So ... you think relievers should be allowed to get out of their own mess but not a starter. OK. So when a reliever comes in and doesn't have it, he should just let them stay in and you won't complain about it? Why do I doubt that? The way this season is going, the starting pitchers shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. Obviously, you're going to have guys like Cotts, Thornton, or MacDougal who might lack their control in a game. Having a guy warming up in the pen is fine during that. However, he has continued to leave his starting pitchers in to start an inning late in a game, and it hasn't paid off much at all. There's been more times than I want to remember where he let a starter give up a hit or two to start the 7th or 8th, and then pull him.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:17 AM) I'm to the point where I don't care if we get a guy or two suspended, but if any dirty play happens to us, the player involved needs to just throw down to try and create a spark, suspensions be dammed. Teams used to try and do this stuff in the olden days and while teams shy away from it now due to suspensions, If I were Ozzie I wouldn't care about that. Any type of thing to wake this team up and get them to forget about the losing baseball and go back to just playing baseball would be a blessing. I was hoping Ozzie would go absolutely nuts on Tuesday night when none of the calls were going our way. I'm not a fan of fights or managers getting ejected, but that would have been the perfect situation.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:14 AM) I don't disagree with your point but aren't you the one who's always on his ass about bringing in pitchers strictly for the matchup? Sure...when it comes to our relievers in the game. Guys like Cotts, Thornton, McCarthy, and Jenks should be allowed to get themselves out of their own mess (unless Cotts is facing Mench ). However, I'm a bigger supporter of letting our bullpen guys start the inning.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:14 AM) WHy have him pitch to the lefty. Our pen is relatively fresh, take him out and put it on the pen. That's one of those decisions where it's hard to think of any reason besides possibly trying to get Garcia the win.

So he leaves in Garcia to face a lefty to start this inning? Will someone please explain this to me?

Ozzie leaving in Freddy for what reason?

We sure know how to not capitalize on hangers. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Dye has a hit with RISP since the ASB.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:06 AM) You make great points in just about every post you ever produce, but Parque and effective should never be used in the same sentence. You should know by now that Jim Parque is my standard for "excellence". Hell....Buehrle's been resembling Parque recently.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:06 AM) could javy? Sure...his only years in baseball when he's been good was pitching in Montreal, and their huge stadium.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 01:04 AM) It's sad to see a guy who led the league in ERA years ago and now...well, doesn't. Welcome to the joys of pitching at SafeCo with an amazing defense behind you. Jim Parque could have been effective there.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 12:57 AM) I'd rather throw him on the DL if the value isn't there and see what happens. I have no doubt that he was effected by the WBC along with him getting a bit out of shape after winning the world series. I do think he can regain his velocity with the proper work ethic over the off-season. The thing people forget is that his velocity decreased pretty drastically from his first year with the Sox to last season. People act like he was throwing 95 mph constantly for the Sox last year. He was more in the 91-92 range. When we first traded for him, he was absolutely electric in his first start at Minnesota. It's pretty sad how far his stuff has fallen. His K rates are extremely evident of this.

QUOTE(iguchi=dank @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 12:57 AM) sad thing is we can be mad at pablo there.. but would anyone on this team have done better? .. Hitting is not a strenth anymore for us Fixed QUOTE(Jimbo @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 12:58 AM) Pods is the worst batter I have ever seen against lefties. How soon people forget Jose Valentin.

QUOTE(ottawa_sox @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 12:52 AM) I find it amusing that we are considering that Ozzie needs to be more demonstrative. I think he has often treaded a fine and effective line when it comes to overdoing it .......... to the point where nobody listens. I am sure he feels that a giant rant at the moment might backfire, especially if it serves no purpose. Personally, I think he has shown himself to be incedibly intuitive as far as when to push the buttons and when not to. I trust his decision making. Have you considered that nobody could get this team going at the moment. Would it surprise that many people if, despite the way they are playing, they turned things around. Perhaps he feels that he needs to be supportive at this difficult time, rather than assuming the scolding parent. Screw motivating...how about better strategizing? We seem determined to let the other team's best players consistently beat us with 2 outs.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 12:52 AM) . THe question is who do we replace, Freddy or Buehrle. I'd love to think we could move Freddy for prospects but thats a sign of a team giving up and I don't think Kenny is willing to do that. I'm convinced Freddy got fat and lazy over the off-season and thats why his velocity is down. In Buehrles case he can't locate and his velocity is a bit down as well, but he has had success for an extended period this year and I'd prefer to be on him re-figuring things out. No matter if we trade Garcia now or in the offseason, I don't think we're going to get much for him at all. I'm all for trading him this weekend, and opening up the position for McCarthy. That type of shake up could really wake up the team, and make them know that no one's role is safe.

This is a situation where Anderson has to shorten his swing.

So Hawk....if our offense isn't going to keep up their productivity all season, and the pitching staff has shown no overall signs of improvement, why is KW not upgrading the offense?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 12:41 AM) Can Ozzie please try to be agressive. This team has been so fishing passive the past few weeks its disgusting. Our fastest and best base stealer has reached based twice tonight and he's yet to run. He even had a few pitches that got in the dirt (one of which he should have been on 2nd on) where he didn't attempt anything either. Our offense is in a funk so find other ways. Use hit and runs to force the hitters to shorten the swing and use right field (not to mention put pressure on the defense) and try to steal to get your guys in scoring position so you just need one single as opposed to a couple strung in there. We can't just sit back and wait for the HR. I don't give two spiffs what a stat guru will tell me about it being dumb to run in front of Thome or Paulie because they can hit HR's, fact of the matter is right now we ain't hitting hr's so you got to push and find other ways to create offense. Ozzie stop sitting on your ass and start making some agressive calls. Thats what we hired you for, we didn't hire you to sit around and start calling an American League style of baseball (which I consider sub-par baseball because it has no creativity or art and it tends to fail in the playoffs...look at how the Angels, Marlins, White Sox have all succeeded in recent years playing another style). Ozzie's best asset (by far), is his ability to motivate his team. Whether or not it's the players fault, he massively failing at getting these players "up" for the game.