fathom

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:27 AM) s***ting yourself at the hint of a pressure situation doesn't bode well for the playoffs... You wouldn't trust Javy in Game 7 of the ALCS?

Ha...our outfield defense, outside of some nice plays by Anderson, has to be the worst in baseball this season.

BTW, anyone notice that if we lose tonight, Twins will be 5 games behind us. That's very scary.

It's just too damn bad that the umpires gave the Yankees the f***ing game last night. Every loss by the Tigers, Yanks, Red Sox, Twins helps us the rest of the season.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:25 AM) oh but didnt gooch and pods get only 1 hit combined yesterday or something as well as sucking today? Iguchi's not playing today. The Sox seem concerned that his ankle hasn't healed quickly from his collision over two weeks ago.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:23 AM) those are rumors..funy how we just happened to be playing in ny at the time...from what ive heard from ozzie and kenny, they have no intentions what so ever to trade a starter or position player. i dunno, to me, javy is 110% useless to this org. ...but ozzie did say that he and kenny talk about the players alot... Don't believe a single thing you hear from KW/Ozzie in the media the next 10 days.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:21 AM) what pods and gooch, including yesterday? yea, im getting sick of pods too. this guy is so incosistent, plus he has health issues sometimes No, that's what Pods is against the Tigers this year.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:20 AM) Well Jason if we step back and take the emotion out of it, you are right, he pitched 5 good innings. Personally I expect a little more than that, I would like to see seven good innings. I agree with you 100% that his success or failure will go a long way in determining how the White Sox do and where they end up. But I think they are at their wits end with these horrible pitches at exactly the wrong time. It is the antithesis of what winning teams do. If you can't redouble your focus at a key time like that, there's a problem. Maybe Guillen needs a shorter leash on this guy, I don't know. That's the thing with Vazquez...he can go from great to awful in a matter of 10 pitches. He had a terrific bottom of the 5th, and I was going to say how impressive it was, but I was scared to jinx him. I still have more confidence in him than I do Garcia.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:20 AM) why is it that kenny is reluctant to trade javy?i dont care if pitching is very valuable,etc. he plain and simple sux. u have to trade this guy. shoot, i dont care if it were to a team that we could face in the playoffs or something. i would love it if the sox faced this guy... I have a feeling KW would jump at the chance to trade him. However, 11 million dollars, and a few more years at huge money, isn't exactly going to make people give in to your trade demands.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:19 AM) It was a slider...you could tell by the velocity on it. I put my head down once there was contact, and didn't bother seeing the replay.

2-32

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:17 AM) I still say Vazzy pitched a good game tonight. Bonderman is smoking our ass. Vazzy's mistake happened to be with 3 men on base. Not good, but an outing to build on. Fathom I understand your frustration about Vazzy and some of our arms this year, but have you looked around baseball? Except for the Tigers, whose staff has been pretty awesome, there are some rag arms out there. I seriously doubt McCarthy would be dominating this year either, if he was starting. Baseball is full of some really horses*** pitchers. Do you at least agree on that account? If it wasn't Vazzy and Freddie sucking, it'd just be somebody else. You ain't gonna find 5 reliable starters, no way. Actually, the pitching in the American League is a lot deeper this year than previous seasons. When you have about 50 million dollars invested in your starting pitcher, and they're all healthy, you should expect a lot better production.

QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:15 AM) Sorry i thought Javy pitched great.... you guys can get all shorts in a bunch over some seeing eye hits and bad defense.... I really dont care... I dunno why AJ didnt call an inside FB... but whatever Vazquez might be the most well-thought of bad pitcher I've ever seen.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:14 AM) Looked like a curve to me. Anyways, I was just thinking earlier that AJ has called a lot of curves for Javy with 2 strikes..probably because Javy really does love that pitch. I'm not pinning blame on AJ, just saying that if Widger is behind the plate, he gets torched like hell on here. Of course, we all know their are certain whipping boys on the team. If that was a slider, then that really was a brutal pitch. There was virtually no tilt on that pitch at all.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:12 AM) Jason I have it on the local feed but if ESPN was talking about that then they nailed it. That's exactly what he does, it's always a brutal pitch with runners on and it's always a hanging breaking ball of some sort. Easy for me but I was sitting here saying "go in on his hands, go in on his hands", i.e. with the fastball. Hawk and DJ were saying go outside and take a little off the slider and as it turns out they were right because Monroe was looking middle-in. And usually that's what it is on a hanging breaking pitch, the arm is dragging through the delivery, the finish is high and therefore the pitch stays up. Either way, bad luck or not, the time for analysis is over. We are trying to stay in a pennant race and this guy has got to perform. Granted there were a few bloops etc. but he has got to make a better pitch than he did. One of the worst pitches in a key situation of the whole 2006 season, if not the worst. Very good analysis. Monroe has a slider-speed bat, and a good fastball up and in would have got him. Another problem Vazquez has had this year is that for a control pitcher, he has bad control when he tries to bust a guy in.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:10 AM) Jesus Christ. Funny how everyone goes nuts when something bad happens. It's okay, Tigers, you can stay. It's not like you're saying much, anyway. Yeah, they're a lot more tame than they were a month or so ago.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:07 AM) This was actually one of his best games, sans that inning. I realize the inning counts and this type of inning has completely hampered Javy but I really think we are about to see him turn the corner. I say this with all due respect, but that's the same thing that general managers keep thinking, and they get stuck with a high-priced pitcher who can't win the big game.

QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:06 AM) Please if BA was in center that Bloop is a catch.... and Mack with the piss poor throw to 3rd... gimmie a break... So Vazquez deserves a pat on the bat for giving up 5 runs in 6 innings in a huge game for the Sox? Sorry, but I expect more from a 11 million dollar pitcher. Can we just save him to pitch against the Indians and Royals the rest of the year?

Instead of employing a 6 man rotation, why not just have McCarthy up in the pen for every Vazquez start, and once he allows 3 runners in an inning, pull him!

QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:04 AM) Gimmie a break... he had 3 soft crappy hits against him and a huge letdown by Mack in CF.... because the guy cant play Cf on the blooper... and AJ tagging Ivan instead of going to first on the force WTF Please Javy pitched good this game... what more do you want.. AJ wouldn't have turned two. He hung an 0-2 slider to IRod, and then hung a 1-2 slider with the bases loaded. Sometimes, a guy has to nut up and make a clutch pitch. Vazquez just doesn't do that.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:01 AM) wtf is the point of even having javy?can someone please tell me??? of course he has that one inning again. not even mccarthy would do this bad. come playoff time, javy wont be starting also. so wtf is the point of having javy and his 12 milllion(or whatever it is)contract??? jeez, ship him to the mets. i dont care if we just get sanchez. I say this respectively, but Ozzie/KW got greedy when they added him. They got addicted to the thought of "the greatest rotation ever". I highly doubt they would have made the trade if they knew Garland/Contereras would re-sign.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 01:00 AM) Fathom, how come you say that this Tigers team is like the White Sox team from last year, yet you believe so much in this Detroit team and you didn't in the Sox last year? I don't think this Tigers team will win it all. They have some excellent arms in their rotation, and their hitting, in my opinion, is better than ours last season. Both teams, this years Tigers, and last year's Sox, had "it". It's funny I get labeled as saying I didn't believe in the Sox last year, as myself and the owner of this site were the two main people that said all this team has to do is make the playoffs, and they're in great shape as the pressure will be off. The main thing I argued all last year about the Sox was that it was no guarantee they'd make the playoffs around this time (when they were up like 12 games).

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 12:58 AM) jesus, with the way pudge is cheerleading you'd think this was the world series. Why wouldn't he be? That's probably their biggest home run in the last 15 years.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 12:58 AM) Still wondering what everyone saw in this guy. He's been no better than medicore since his days in Montreal. At almost 200 decisions, it's pathetic that he's a .500 pitcher. He's just not a winning baseball player, plain and simple.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 20, 2006 -> 12:58 AM) Oh come on. One bad pitch, and we are down, it happens. They got some seeing eye shots and this happens. We will come back. 2 crucially bad pitches. The thing is that against this Tigers pitching, that's all they need.