fathom

If McCarthy hasn't been overrated this season, then I don't want to know who is considered overrated.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:05 AM) Yes, go look at his numbers from 2003 and 2004 in the minors and tell me he's underrated. When you pitch that well and dominate like he did you deserve to be touted as a major prospect. Minor league numbers mean jacks***. The worst thing someone can do is get caught up in analyzing someone's minor league stats.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:06 AM) He never should have pitched in the majors this year. He pitched lights out in spring training and was rushed along. They put his development on hold and tried to fill a spot in the rotation with a AA pitcher. He wasn't ready. He is NOT overrated. I remember hearing Hawk and Ozzie saying how we had a great 6th starter in McCarthy if someone got hurt. Then, we called him up, and he was clearly not ready. That's a textbook example of being overrated.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:06 AM) Because he never should have been up with the Sox in the 1st place. Realistically they should have started him in AA this year, and then moved him up to Charlotte after this year's draft. If they did that, and McCarthy was putting up numbers like he did last season, don't you think Sox fans would be getting restless if he wasn't in our rotation when El Duque got injured? I'm not going to disagree that he shouldn't be up. But come on, you know as well as I do that many on here thought McCarthy was going to come up and have a 3.50 ERA while striking out 7 a game. 99pct of Sox fans had too high of expectations for McCarthy. In my book, that's called being overrated.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:02 AM) Did you see his K to BB ratio in the minors? Did you see how many strikeouts he had? Did you see his ERA? Have you ever looked at his stats? Do you even know who he is? He is not overrated. It was not just 1 spring training, it was 2 years in the minors. You have now lost all credibility, not that you had any to begin with. I could care less about credibility, but right now, McCarthy is overrated. Doesn't mean he'll always be overrated, but in his stint with the Sox this year, he underachieved.

This quote in tomorrow's Tribune tells me all I need to know: "I feel comfortable going to the playoffs with Garland, El Duque (Orlando Hernandez), Freddy (Garcia) and (Mark) Buehrle. That's a good enough [rotation] for our guys to contend." Ozzie doesn't like Contreras.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 03:59 AM) Here we go; What publication is this from? I just know what I heard from my neutral MLB scouts, and they were never as high on McCarthy as everyone was on here (which makes sense, of course).

If we're going to trade McCarthy, it has to be for a star player who will help us not only this year, but in the future. Schmidt is what I would classify as a star pitcher, and we'd have his option for next season. Our offense will likely be relatively cheap next season if we don't resign PK. We should be able to afford the 4 stud pitchers then. It's not like Contreras is a cheap number 4 pitcher.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 03:53 AM) McCarthy would have been in the top 15-20 prospects of baseball at the end of last season, and he had the most K's in all of the minors last season IIRC. How can his stock be higher now than at the end of ST? No, I mean that the longer he struggles in AAA, the more his stock will decrease. McCarthy was not rated among the top 20 prospects in baseball after last season.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 03:43 AM) So because B-Mac's amounted to nothing yet, he's automatically tradeable? FWIW McCarthy's last start he only gave up 2 ER in 6IP, and the game was at Charlotte where he has been struggling. It's pretty much giving up 3 major league pitchers for 1, because Brandon McCarthy WOULD be a starter on some teams in the majors. If we'd be able to get Schmidt for Contreras, McCarthy, and Shingo, I'd do that deal without a doubt. First, Shingo is done with. As I said at the beginning of the season, Japanese pitchers lose their stuff quickly as they get older because of the insane amount of pitches they throw in their early 20s. Next, if it's between having Schmidt for this year, as well as picking up his 10.5 mil option for next year, I'd rather have him than Contreras and his 8 mil contract next season. The healthier Schmidt gets, the better he'll be. Schmidt has been a stud pitcher the last few years, and he's much more likely to have a consistent season from start to finish than Contreras. As for McCarthy.....I've seen nothing that would suggest to me he'll even be anything more than a number 4 starter. McCarthy wasn't a huge prospect before the end of last season, and his status was completely overblown in ST. His stock will never be higher than it is right now. Of course, I'd rather trade McCarthy in a package with Sweeney and another player in order to get Lidge.

I just want to know since when did the Sox clinch the AL Central? Sure, a 12 game lead is a nice cushion. However, there's still plenty of games left, including a lot of games between the Sox and Twins. I know a lot of people are concerned with the Contreras vs Schmidt debate for the playoffs, but I'm more interested in Schmidt helping us lock up the AL Central.

Twins just won in the 9th. Tying the game with 2 outs on a wild pitch, and winning the game on an infield single. That's the type of s*** the Twins pull that make any lead against them in the standings never seem big enough.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:39 AM) He still has an ERA above 5 in his away starts (which is higher than Contreras in his home starts even after tonight), and a .297 BAA in those starts and got bombed at the Padres (which BTW if Jose did we'd probably want him to jump off a cliff or something). Let's see how he does tonight, and see how his velocity looks especially on that fastball. Padres have always hit Schmidt hard. One of the big advantages, if we did get Schmidt, is that he would be a new look against a majority of the AL players.

QUOTE(chisoxfan79 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:37 AM) Did you fall off the face of the earth last weekend before the All Star break. I would be more concerned with A's. Well, if the Sox don't beat out the Twins, the Sox will be watching the Twins and A's play in the postseason then. I'd rather play the A's instead of the Yankees or Red Sox in a short series, no doubt about it.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:32 AM) Jose Contreras in a heartbeat. His numbers are better in every way. Congrats, you agree with probably 1 percent of baseball executives then.

QUOTE(chisoxfan79 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:30 AM) Why scoreboard watch the Twins any more? I'm watching the A's more hoping they do not make the wildcard. Until the Sox clinch the division, I will be more concerned about the Twins. If we're scared of the f***ing A's, we don't deserve to win s***.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:23 AM) Yah, Schmidt knows how to locate his pitches to the tune of a 4.80 ERA in a PITCHERS league in a PITCHERS park. I can't believe what I'm reading tonight. its amazing. He's also been recovering from an injury, and has been improving over the last month or so. All I know is I watch more baseball than probably anyone, and I'd take Schmidt over Contreras in a heartbeat. Don't forget that if you get Schmidt, you get a pitcher who hasn't been seen by the AL teams at all.

Twins tied the score at 2 in the 6th.

It would be interesting if we meet up with the Red Sox in the playoffs (if we make it). I don't like our chances against the sliders of Clement and Arroyo. When we face these types of pitchers, we need to have at least 4 lefties in our lineup. If that requires KW to acquire a lefty hitter, then that's something he needs to do.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:19 AM) And you are nuts. Jose has pitched 10 times better than Schmidt this year, and it's not really even close. I'll take Schmidt in a heartbeat over Contreras.

QUOTE(Ozzie Montana @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:18 AM) Contreras' 8 mill. is too much to put as a long relief but now i dont care. Cotts is so dominating in his role and I would like to see him one day take over Contreras spot. Cotts sucks as a starter. He has two pitches. He's a reliever, get used to it.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:14 AM) TIMO AT FIRST!!!!! f*** YOU OZZIE!!!!! Why not? Better than getting PK hurt.

QUOTE(Ozzie Montana @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:13 AM) yeah true. This Bonderman doesnt look THAT good. We've just been chasing bad pitches and early on we didnt execute when we should have in the 1st and 3rd. We have too many righty hitters in our lineup. We've really struggled hitting righties with decent stuff lately. Between Millwood, Douglass, and Bonderman, we've struggled against righties lately with sharp stuff. We don't adjust well to sliders moving away from us, which is why we fared better against Westbrook and his sinker.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:12 AM) The more I think about Contreras, the more I dislike him. I don't like anything about the guy. Can't stand to watch him pitch, can't stand how he wastes his talent, can hardly stand to think about him pitching (especially in a game with any pressure). Since he's been in the league, he's been a piece of work. He signed a contract with the Yankees while staying in a room paid for by the Red Sox. Struggles, then is reunited with his family...continues to struggle. Moves to a basically pressure-free team and struggles. Hasn't learned how to pitch in 40 years on earth, but somehow makes like 8 million dollars a year. Escapes from Castro's communist regime, but somehow still lacks balls. I can't even force myself to like this guy, even though I still wish he'd do well. But, I wish even more that he'll be traded for someone that will help us more. Sorry, had to get that off my chest. This I said, he just doesn't strike me as a winning play. Mark Buehrle, now there's a f***ing winner. However, the two guys on the Sox I most characterize as not winning players are Contreras and Harris.

Like I said, this is a lot of fun watching this right now. If KW was even considering possibly trading him, after tonight would be a perfect opportunity to sell high.