ZoomSlowik

That's gotta suck, Orlando did everything right the first two games and are an amazing shot away from being up 2-0. Cleveland blew another big lead early and it almost cost them. They can't match up with both Lewis and Turkoglu unless they go small, which they don't do well. Still, I have to think one of these games Cleveland is going to get that big lead and hold it, Orlando has hit basically every jumper they had to just to keep it interesting.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 20, 2009 -> 10:00 PM) Hedo playin well. Helps when Ilgauskas is defending him. Talk about a mis-match.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 20, 2009 -> 12:52 PM) All the talk out here is that Randolph emerged as one of the guys they want to build around. That figures. He has talent as a scorer, but he's an atrocious defender, a major ballhog and is horribly overpaid. Only the Clippers would think building around him is a good idea, especially since they are about to draft a superior all-around player at his position.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 20, 2009 -> 11:21 AM) The Clippers have Al Thornton whose a nice piece and Eric Gordon. The key for them is dumping Baron, although he'll probably get convinced to stick around and they'll be decent with him, but the Clippers got a nice looking front-court and should be able to move one of there guys for solid value. Find a true point and another guard and they have a nice looking front five. I would actually say their biggest area of need is SF, Thornton is really not that good. The only reason he scores is their team is awful, he only averaged 16.8 points on 14.8 shots. That's roughly what Luol Deng has done the last two years. He's actually older than Luol as well, IIRC he went to junior college before FSU. Assuming Davis stays he's going to be a lot less useful with the emergence of Gordon and Griffin. They're relatively set everywhere else when you look at it. Davis is injury prone but when he's on there aren't THAT many point guards that are better than him. If they push the tempo more he can still be a major asset, the problems come when he has to produce in the half-court regularly. Eric Gordon quietly had a very good rookie season and looks like he will be an explosive and efficient scorer in the years to come, and with Griffin and whomever comes back they're better than most up front. Granted none of those options are mind-blowingly good, they lack depth and many of their key parts are injury prone, but for a bad team they have a few useful pieces.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 20, 2009 -> 12:00 PM) The Clip joint wouldn't do Camby for Kirk. They are just as interested in 2010 as anyone else. The guy(s) who will be available are Kaman and Randolph. Their moves strongly suggest otherwise. They signed Baron to a big deal and then traded Mobley and Thomas for Randolph. Both of those guys have sizeable deals that expire in 2010 while Randolph is on the books for $17.3 mil that season. If they really wanted cap space in 2010 they would have stood pat instead of making that amazingly retarded trade. Basically the Clippers are completely incompetent and you can't rule anything out.

First off, you can't be suspended if you test positive for marijuana until the third offense. Now if it were one of the "drugs of abuse" (meth, cocaine, LSD, PCP and opiates) like with Chris Anderson that's another story entirely. Second, the NBA testing policy is a joke. Unless you are a rookie the only time the league can test you without reasonable causes is during the pre-season. I can't imagine they'd go through the process of determining if there's reasonable cause or not (they bring in an independent expert) for weed.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ May 13, 2009 -> 06:42 PM) Its ridiculous to compare the ages of who accomplished what and when with guys that didnt go to college and guys who did. Its just a completely different scenario. Um, I think you quoted the wrong post.

I think you can also make the case that Scottie wouldn't have received anywhere near as much recognition without the 6 rings. Don't get me wrong, he was a fantastic all-around player, but he wasn't really a consistently dominant scorer (Caron Butler is a relatively close comparison on offense, though Scottie was a bit better from the field and distributed better. Defense is obviously a different story entirely.) and that could make it less likely for people to give him proper credit on a decent but not stellar team. Remember, Dominique Wilkins didn't make the NBA's 50 greatest players list and I would consider him roughly a push with Scottie as an overall player (better scorer, not the distributor/defender). Of course the counter-point to that is that leaving The Human Highlight Film off the original list was a gross oversight (Walton instead with his 3 good years while only playing 70 games once? Really?), but I digress.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 8, 2009 -> 01:11 PM) Nevermind how he was that whole damn team, going up against basically the NBA dynasty of the 2000 in the Spurs. And wasn't it LeBron who by himself beat the Pistons in the 4th quarter that year? People really need to remember Jordan lost a few series before winning anything. And oh yeah, he had one of the 50 greatest players ever on his team. When LeBron has someone halfway decent playing along side him, let me know. Good god, do some research on 1980's basketball. Before Pippen developed around 89-90, Jordan would have had to single-handedly beat the Bad Boys, the Bird-led Celtics AND the Showtime Lakers to win a title. Those are only three of the best teams EVER. Their second best player through that stretch was Charles Oakley, who may have averaged a double-double but also averaged about 14 points on a mid-40's shooting percentage and turned it over at a similar rate to Jordan.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 8, 2009 -> 08:58 AM) Totally agree. LeBron is doing things MJ wished he could have done at 24. Better 3 point shooter and overall just a better polished game considering his age. You do realize that Michael won the scoring title, MVP, and defensive player of the year when he was 24, right? Lebron isn't exactly an amazing shooter either, 34% from the arc and 37.5% on 2-point jumpers isn't exactly scaring anyone, teams will gladly let him take those shots if they can force him to do it. That's the problem though, he's RIDICULOUSLY good on the drive.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ May 7, 2009 -> 09:52 AM) This is a terrible argument. If anything, the defense is improved with just the sheer athleticism of the game today. These players are bigger and faster than the players in the league when Jordan was coming up. I think the defense in the NBA today is highly underrated. Please. They allow absolutely no contact now, players used to be able to body up to guys as much as they wanted. If you fart in the general vicinity of Lebron or Wade they call a foul.

Even if you simply limit it to Michael at 24 (which isn't really a fair comparison since guys rarely went pro before their junior year in Michael's era, giving Lebron an extra 2 seasons), Michael still has the edge IMO. Lebron is bigger and a better passer, but Michael was a scoring machine even in an era without the handcheck rules, was a far better ball-hawk and actually had more blocks as well, and was a better shooter. Lebron is easily the most dominant perimeter player I've seen other than MJ though, and who knows, in 10 years he might end up on the same tier. This was his best all-around season by a fairly wide margin and he's still quite young.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 6, 2009 -> 09:41 AM) Per 36 minutes (and remember Stro was considered a bust though he was f***ed up mentally) And I believe this is the Ben Gordon minutes I talked about. Tyrus- 14.2 ppg 8.4 rpg 1.3 apg 1.5 spg 2.5 bpg .451 fg% .333 3p% .783 ft% Stro- 16.0 ppg 9.4 rpg 1.1 apg 1.3 spg 2.5 bpg .469 fg% --- 3p% .725 ft% And to put it in perspective even more... their minutes... Tyrus from age 20-22... 13.4 mpg, 18.0 mpg 27.5 mpg (thank you Del Negro) Stro from age 20-22... 16.4 mpg, 26.5 mpg 22.1 mpg This isn't even mentioning Tyrus had three times as many minutes that were inconsistant (you know playing for 35+ one night, only 10 the other... ah the good ol' Scott Skiles era) Oh and Stro playing basketball a hell of a lot longer in his life (was a stud/highly recruted in high school, whereas Tyrus came out of nowhere after his red shirt freshman year in college, though a weak draft that year) which tells you more how much Tyrus has improved in you know... shooting the ball more than the lazy, just wanna get by on pure athleticism, premadonna Stro. (though again.. had mental issues) This fourth year is really the make or break year for Tyrus. After that year for Stro for some odd reason, at age 23-24, the Grizzlies just gave up on him (tho the only thing he could really do was dunk but was still productive) If Tyrus doesn't step it up even further and be productive, he will have the same fate. -Who cares how much he played/how good he was in high school? That was 5 years ago and has no bearing on anything. It didn't exactly hold back Hakeem Olajuwon or Dikembe Mutumbo, there's plenty of time to make up ground. -Swift got yanked around plenty when he was younger, he didn't average over 15 MPG in a month until March of his rookie year and his averages varied from 14 to 31 MPG over the next two years. Not that it's THAT big an issue anyways, plenty of players had non-existant/inconsistent minutes early in their career and were successful. -Swift stopped getting minutes because they realized that while he can make plays with his athleticism he has/had few if any skills and wasn't a good defender despite good block totals and decent steal totals. Sound familiar? I don't mean to sound as harsh as I do because Tyrus was decent this year, but I'm sick of hearing people make excuses for him. I don't have a problem with him as the 4th or 5th best starter as the energy player, but you need some guys to pick up the scoring slack for him, especially playing next to Noah. Thinks will get ugly if we end up letting Gordon go and hope that Tyrus and a "healthy" Deng will pick up all of the slack.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 6, 2009 -> 11:04 AM) You beat me to it and we actually agree on everything but Tyrus lol. If LaMarcus was with us, we would not have Derrick Rose. Simple as that. You make that sound like something that works in Tyrus' favor more than dumb luck.

QUOTE (chw42 @ May 6, 2009 -> 10:48 AM) All this Tyrus talk when I look up at Lamarcus Aldridge's stats and just start drooling. Damn it John Paxson! We'd still be playing basketball if he didn't make that trade... Much as I wish we had LaMarcus, who the hell knows what the team would look like if we had kept him. There's very little chance we'd have still won the lottery to get Rose and there's no way to predict how differently some of the transactions would have gone.

QUOTE (rangercal @ May 6, 2009 -> 09:08 AM) It's not retarded. Some players are late bloomers and some are not. Sometimes the late bloomers end up being the better final product. Quit letting your tyrus hatred stoop yourself so low. You are better than that. I'm trying to talk to you as a basketball fan. Tyrus is 22 , is not a finished product and did show improvement this year. Stop ignoring the facts. Wait, who's ingoring the facts now, the guy that's basing every comment on what he's ACTUALLY done so far or the guy talking about some massive leap forward in production that he's yet to make? And yes, it is a retarded argument because by that logic every young player that steps on the floor MIGHT catch up with a guy that's roughly the same age and is already out-producing him at a good clip. If Tyrus isn't a finished project at 22, then how can you definitively say by any stretch that Aldridge is at 23? Does that mean Tyrus stops developing in August? He hits a few more jumpers, that's about it. His points/40 minutes is roughly the same as his rookie rates and his rebounds/40 has actually gone down. He's still the same maddeningly inconsistent player with a low basketball IQ, we've just seen him a bit more this year.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 6, 2009 -> 08:59 AM) Swift doesn't have nearly as much range nor as good of a stroke for a jumpshot, not to mention been considred very lazy in work ethic. (the complete opposite of Tyrus) I'll just let Tyrus do what he does this offseason. Work on his game as usual, get stronger, perhaps look at tape to get that IQ a "tad" better.. lol (he did have Drew Gooden as a teammate which is never good no matter who you are) let him go nuts, fill up the shat sheet like he usually does, and average in the top 5 in blocks, rebounds and perhaps steals. QUOTE (rangercal @ May 6, 2009 -> 09:01 AM) Swift at some serious personal problems he had to deal with. But you can't put that into the equation, right Zoom? Tyrus isn't exactly Kevin Garnett, he hits 35% of his jumpers. For all of the supposed work ethic edge he has on Swift, he hasn't exactly lept past him. Tyrus is also nowhere near the top-5 in rebounding even if you factor in the rate. Stromile's emotional problems weren't the problem, the problem is that he has/had no skill and couldn't defend. Tyrus for all of his steals/blocks didn't exactly help us slow down Glen Davis and Kendrick Perkins (yes, I know he wasn't always on the floor, but he got 27.9 MPG in the playoffs and it wasn't exactly the first time we had issues). They're a lot more similar than you think... Tyrus year 3, age 22: 27.5 MPG, 10.8 points, 6.5 rebounds, 45.1% FG, 78.3% FT, 1.2 steals, 1.9 blocks Swift, year 2, age 22 (so he even spots Tyrus a year): 26.5 MPG, 11.8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 48% FG, .711 FT, .8 steal, 1.7 blocks Bottom line is expecting him to make a monumental leap forward at this point is fairly naive. He's fairly decent now, but still does an awful lot of things that hurt you.

QUOTE (rangercal @ May 6, 2009 -> 08:59 AM) Because players like Jermaine O'neal and Rashard Lewis never developed a little later? Right? For better or worse, NO one knows what the final product of Tyrus will be. That's an amazingly retarded argument since LaMarcus Aldridge is only about a year older than Tyrus. Way to compare him to two high schoolers too, Lewis was 21 in his first good season and O'Neal turned 22 right at the beginning of his first year with Indiana. Tyrus turns 23 in August, so he's already behind them.

QUOTE (rangercal @ May 6, 2009 -> 08:55 AM) I can live with that trade. For the people who can't, time to get over it. Yeah, why in god's name would we want the guy that's averaging about 18-8 on a better team... Thank god they got lucky with Rose, otherwise it'd be ugly.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 6, 2009 -> 08:44 AM) Hell at least Derrick Rose/Ben Gordon minutes would be nice. Of course you knew that Joe. Whoopie, then he can average 13-8 and everyone can gush over how big a star he is! You know, they were saying the same thing about Stromile Swift at one point...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 6, 2009 -> 08:26 AM) You'd have a problem with TT being the 3rd best player on the Bulls? I have a problem with people using the minutes argument as the only thing holding him from being a star, when even if you generously project out his current production he still compares to a good but not great player that has significant flaws. Hell, Luol Deng put up fairly comparable PER's to Josh Smith the previous two years. Tyrus Thomas is not going to be THE reason they are successful, at best he's going to be a role player with other people carrying the bulk of the load.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 6, 2009 -> 08:06 AM) Don't you guys know what this baits me to do? It baits me to respond with other ways to look at the data. If you look at the first half of the season, Oct. through the end of January, when TT was still being benched randomly and Drew Gooden gave us our small lineup domination, Tyrus averaged 14.6 p/40, 9.1 reb/40. From Feb 1. on, the time during the season when TT averaged over 30 minutes per game, TT averaged 17.0 p/40, 9.6 reb/40. Josh Smith averaged 15.6 points and 7.2 rebounds in 35.1 minutes last season. Scaled to 35 minutes, Tyrus averaged 14.8 points and 8.4 rebounds per 35 in the 2nd half. Smith had 1 more assist per 35, Tyrus had 1 more block per 35. Turnovers per minute are basically a wash for the entire season (smith is 0.2/35 higher). The only real difference is that TT picks up about 1 more foul per 35 than Smith did last year (and NBA.com didn't have season splits on foul #'s so I can't see if that improved in the 2nd half without looking more). Did you have fun trying to argue how well Tyrus compares to a guy that would be the third best player on a legit contender? You had to take only half a season's worth of data and assume that his rates of production in those stats would still remain constant with 8 more minutes of playing time to even get to that point. Seriously, the playing time argument with Tyrus is getting really tired, it's not like he was bolted to the bench this entire season. I swear, you people won't be happy until he's playing more minutes than Lebron.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ May 5, 2009 -> 09:46 PM) And Josh Smith is awesome. 1) Josh Smith is the 2nd best player on a team with no shot of making the conference finals in the east. 2) You missed the point, even if you spot Tyrus an extra 5 minutes he's at best a push with him.

By the way, Tyrus' per 40 minute averages this year are 15.8 points and 9.3 rebounds. Yes, that means that even if he played more minutes than anyone in the league and kept his rates the same he'd be about as productive as Josh Smith is in 35 minutes.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 5, 2009 -> 08:58 PM) You were never a Tyrus Thomas fan to begin with and have always hated him. The hate he gets from people actually makes me love him more in instances, but even you know Slav (and others) that I loved him since he was drafted (then traded to us. ) Give him Derrick Rose minutes next season and watch him fill up the stat sheet AK47 style. Really? You mean he can be the 4th or 5th best player on a decent but not stellar team?