ZoomSlowik

Bumping in hopes of getting a few more participants... You can still get on it, the first week did not count in the scores so you'd still be working on a level playing field.

Happy birthday! It'll probably be a while before we see you again.

Sign-up info is here: Pick'em group info

Alright, so I started one since no one else has yet... Group #- 24684 password- soxtalk I set it to start updating in week 2, so that should mean that week 1 won't count, giving us more time to get people. I chose that instead of doing the drop a score thing because not all weeks are equal in point potential and you just end up being forced to count like a 5-game week towards the end of the season while the people that joined early get to drop that one. Anyways, sign up and get ready to get beat.

I guess if you guys need more for two leagues I'll play, football isn't exactly my best sport though.

I noticed it on the message board for our sim league but figured it was inaccurate (it's happened before). Oh well, a belated happy birthday anyways, I'm sure he hasn't even seen this thread yet.

I'd kill for a Kopp's in the Chicago area, right now there's only 3 in the Milwaukee area. Greasy goodness on a bun, delicious AND artery clogging.

Definitely Floyd and Danks. I had zero faith in the former and although I liked Danks a lot I didn't think he'd be sub-3.50 ERA by any stretch. I'd have been pretty damn happy with performances in the 4.50-5.00 range.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:15 PM) Odom didn't start playing PF until last year with the Lakers, but at that, he started the game there and would shove over to SF when Turiaf came in and at times would play G when Kobe would leave the game. On top of that, when they got Gasol, Odom never sniffed the PF spot for more than 3 minutes a game. You mean besides starting every game there? Unless you REALLY call Radmanovic a PF... It's a stupid argument anyways. Regardless of the actual numbers, for a perimeter player Deng is a pretty solid rebounder.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:08 PM) Per NBA.com Lamar Odom Shawn Marion Josh Smith LeBron James Carmelo Anthony Josh Howard Caron Butler Those are non-argumentive for last year. So again, he was good, not great and not top 5. 3 of those guys played an awful lot of PF last year and in previous years (Odom, Marion, Smith). It's debateable which position they actually play, hence why the two sites list them differently. Yes, that matters because they're closer to the basket more often guarding PF's. Deng did occasionally late in games, not to that extent though. Butler didn't qualify, that's why he wasn't on the previous list (I didn't feel like double-checking everyone out there).

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:59 PM) I wouldn't slide Antawn, but Josh Smith, Lamar Odom I would for sure. And Marion is a bonafide SF. Again, Deng is a good rebounder for his position, he's not out of this world, however. I never said he was a GREAT rebounder, I was pointing out that he was a decent one and not sub-par or outside the top-15 as you said previously. He doesn't have one standout tool outside of his length that allows him to get his shot up over most players, but he's decent to good at numerous things that make him a pretty solid all-around player. Plus he's still only 23 and works pretty hard so it's not totally out of the realm of possibility for him to improve. He's not suddenly going to be a post dominator or an elite 3-point shooter, but he can keep improving his efficiency and develop at least SOME ability in those areas and round out his game even further.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 11:00 PM) Tyrus has great defensive instincts. If by "great defensive instincts" you mean standing near the basket and jumping. If he had any basketball IQ he'd be an awful lot better. He's out of position fairly regularly and can't guard post players one on one because of his lack of bulk. When he makes plays it's because of his great length and athleticism, not because he knows how to play the game.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 09:46 PM) Oh yeah, at least for total rebounds, since I can't find RPG, Deng isn't in the top 15 for SF's. http://basketballreference.com/leaders/lea...g=n&yr=2007 Wow, total rebounds for a guy that missed 20 games. Nice try. Yeah, he was if you do sort by position on ESPN. His 6.3 a game last year would have put him 4th behind Lebron, Melo and Josh Howard, just slightly ahead of Rudy Gay and Danny Granger. Even if you slide Mike Miller, Lamar Odom, Josh Smith and Antwan Jamison to SF (all are debateable) he'd be in the top-10. In 06/07 his 7.1 rebounds was second at the position, again, down to 5th if you count Marion, Smith and Jamison. Go back another year and he was 4th, depending on how you list those 4 guys and Boris Diaw (and he tied with Josh Smith). Small forwards that grossly out-rebound Deng are extremely rare.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 09:02 PM) You did not just compare Ricky Davis to Ben Gordon, did you? I won't take that seriously. And how do you explain Joe Smith and Andres Nocioni doing better scoring wise than Deng? It's because no one has faith in him in the 4th and he doesn't like that stage. Luol doesn't try to do it because his mentality isn't set to do so. Let's put it this way, how many times have you ever seen Deng demand the ball? How many times have you seen him post up a smaller player and call for the rock, just once? None. How many times have you seen him blow past a player? Never. And to say Gordon is a catch and shoot player is saying Deng is Richard Hamilton without the 3 point shot. http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHI9A.HTM Deng had 67% of his shots assisted last year. The year before, 69% of his shots were assisted. Gordon on the other hand, 52% this year, 45% of his shots assisted in 06-07. The reason why I included 06-07 was because that was both their best year. So there is no way you can tell me Gordon is a catch and shoot player and then not going to mention that Deng is more of an abuser of getting his shots set up by others. Subjectively Gordon is a better player, but you can't look at their production on paper and tell me with a straight face that Gordon blows away Ricky Davis. He's another guy that averages in the high-teens, shoots in the low-to-mid 40's from the field, and outside of 06/07 has a PER in the 15-16.5 range. Sure, Gordon is a much better shooter, but the overall package/contributions doesn't really look RADICALLY different. Nocioni and Smith also took more shots than Deng in those situations, that's going to happen when you miss like 20 games and/or play less in a few others due to injuries. Again, I'm not arguing that Deng is a monster in the clutch, but that's one of your MAJOR tenants of why Gordon is so great. I also never said that Deng wasn't a catch and shoot player, and comparing him to Hamilton doesn't exactly help your cause because he's been a better player than Gordon. Deng does actually SCORE when he gets the ball inside though, unlike Gordon and his horrendous 47.5% on inside shots that's in the bottom 10 in the league. Deng is a decent but not stellar scorer and that's only part of his game, the ONLY thing that Gordon does that's decent is score, so he should probably do some of those things if he's supposed to be this great offensive option that deserves to get paid over 12 mil a year.

Quoted from the Collective Bargaining Agreement: So assuming they signed him to the same 6-70 as Deng got his value would be just over 10 mil, making him a highly viable trade candidate.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 09:51 PM) Nope. Say we give Josh Smith the 13 million he wants. So okay, for us, we could send them Hughes since he equals 13 million. It works perfectly for us, so woohoo. Not so fast, because Josh Smith would automatically become BYC, and yes it is a factor because he's signing the contract with Atlanta. So therefore, the 13 million we are sending does not equal the 6.5 million they are sending out. Therefore, trade does not work. So basically, with BYC, the outgoing contract would equal 100% to the new team the player is going to, but the team he is leaving only could worry about half of the outgoing contract. If that were the case, how the heck would the rumored deal to Golden State happen? Harrington and Jackson have set contracts too, big ones. Sign and trades aren't subject to all of the normal rules.

I'm not trying to argue that Deng is a monster in the clutch, you are with Gordon. If you shoot enough you're going to score, that doesn't mean he's good/efficient at it as those stats show. He's among the worst in the league in clutch TO's and his clutch shooting percentage was sub-par too. Just because he's OUR #1 option late doesn't mean he's a good one. Maybe if Gordon would actually let Deng shoot the ball he'd have more impressive numbers in those situations, Ben had twice as many attempts. The PG argument is BS too, the majority of the people that are up there aren't PG's either and most are well under Gordon on that percentage. He's at his best as a catch and shoot player so other people have to force the action, Ben doesn't fair well when he tries to do it. Also, statistically the Bulls' best unit was Hinrich/Hughes/Deng/Gooden/Noah by a fairly wide margin (though none were particularly good), so I don't see how Gordon "clearly" makes their PG's better. For all of his amazing offensive prowess he scored a whopping 1.8 more points per game than Deng in his "s***" year. Neither player is a true difference maker, but Deng brings a lot more to the table. Luol has led the team in PER each of the last three years and hasn't exactly been blown away in scoring. It's not THAT hard to find guys that can score and do nothing else (especially for the kind of money he wants), just look at guys like Ricky Davis or half of the Knicks' roster.

Gotta love that 37.7% field goal percentage and 4.1 TO in the clutch too. And the fact that 61% of them were assisted so it's not like he's the one creating the shots. If you're on a team that plays a lot of close games like the Bulls did of course the #1 option is going to score a few times nearly by default.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 04:49 PM) Your post doesn't deserve a response, but I'll respond anyway. Josh Smith is 99.9% unattainable for the Bulls. Not even worth looking into because if a S&T is done, he has BYC status. Read the CBA, find out salaries and tell me one way in which a Josh Smith is available for the Bulls. This is the only thing I'm going to bother responding to. If he's traded immediately the base year compensation isn't a factor, only after we acquire him. That's the whole point of a sign-and-trade, it wouldn't ever be an option if the base year compensation rules applied immediately. A trade would very easily be feasible financially with any number of players, however there isn't a particularly good match on the Bulls in terms of talent.

Haha, that whole rant was funny. A few problems with it: 1) You're ripping Deng for "only being able to do one thing" when the only thing Gordon can do is shoot. Nevermind that Deng is a good mid-range shooter and is light-years better as a finisher (allowing him to shoot for a higher percentage), and contributes at worst average rebounding and defense at the position. 2) You made it sound like Deng dropping the 3's from his arsenal was a bad thing. He hit .5 a game at a 26.5% clip, that's horrendous. He gradually became a much more efficient scorer by eliminating a shot he can't make from his repetoire. Would you really rather have him jacking up shots that he can't make at a respectable rate? 3) You make it sound like the fact that he can "guard" point guards is a good thing. It grossly limits the Bulls' choices with the lineups because he's nothing close to a true PG and can't effectively guard 2-guards. So instead Hinrich gets in foul trouble guarding at a spot he really can't or they have to play him with Hughes or Thabo and drastically hurt the ball-handling. That sounds like a good way to start Rose off too, make him defend at a spot where his size and strength are no longer huge assets. 4) Unless his jumpers are dropping Gordon is totally useless. He can't finish on the drive, he can't defend and he can't handle the ball. He usually can't even score when we really need it because people have figured out that if they trap him he's going to screw up. His game is extremely limited, though he is very good at that one aspect. I wouldn't GIVE Gordon away because they do need his scoring, but giving him that kind of money long-term is asanine and would seriously bite the Bulls in the ass. They have enough pieces to trade that they can bring in another reasonably capable scorer and still deal with it. It's not like this team is terribly likely to go anywhere as currently constructed anyways.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 07:53 AM) Too bad Houston's major stars (TMac and Yao) can't ever stay healthy, or else they'd be favorites in the West this year. You can throw Artest in there too, through injury/suspension he's failed to crack 70 games in 5 of his 9 seasons, and another was 70 on the nose.

Lou's is a pretty solid pizza, though I've always been partial to Pizzeria Uno/Due (originals only, both on Wabash, the chains are AWFUL). They're pretty similar though considering that Lou Malnati was a manager at Pizzeria Due before starting the chain. Giordano's is decent, but not quite on the same level. I wouldn't have anything to do with Gino's personally.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 11:03 AM) I guess I just don't see the love for Barry Sanders. I'm not saying he wasn't a great back, but people put him up there in the all-time lists. He played a shorter career and often competed against Emmit Smith for best back of the year (and lost). If you're going to have Emmit be overrated, then Barry is there too. And even if he had a better line, that's a slippery slope. You define a persons career based on what they do, not what they do with what they have. I think most of it is because that Sanders averaged a whopping 5 yards per carry for his career while Emmitt was at 4.2 with a much better offensive line to run behind. For a runningback the offensive line can have a HUGE impact. They both had 4 rushing titles, not quite sure how he regularly "lost" to Smith unless you want to factor in touchdowns for a much better offense outside of one great year from Scott Mitchell. As for the career thing, Sanders still played 10 seasons and had almost 1500 yards in his last season and was only one year removed from the best season of his career. The general consensus was that he retired early, much like Jim Brown. Smith just happened to play 5 more seasons at well below his peak form.

Since it's sort of going there, I'll say Marvin Harrison. Don't get me wrong, he's a very good receiver that runs great routes and has good hands, but he's not the physical freak that some of these other wide receivers are and has always had a true franchise quarterback throwing to him in a bit more of a pass-happy system. On a different team I could very easily see him being similar to Hines Ward: a solid player but only occasionally elite. Peyton and Marvin complement each other very well, Peyton needs a WR he can count on to consistently get some seperation (realistically every QB does to be highly productive) while Marvin really needs a QB that'll put the ball in the right spot at the right time to be elite.

I'm not exactly a Brady supporter, but to be fair his receivers were pretty pedestrian before this past season. Deion Branch, Reche Caldwell and David Patten aren't exactly on the same tier as some of the guys other great quarterbacks have had to work with. Granted the defense was very good and the line has been solid, but you saw what he did this past year with a legit set of pass-catchers. I suppose if he's rated #1 or #2 all-time among quarterbacks then yeah, he's overrated, but his resume is pretty damn impressive.