ZoomSlowik

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 21, 2014 -> 12:17 PM) What house doesn't rape and pillage? They slipped over a lot of the wilding storyline but I hope they come back to it when well... That's another topic, pretty much everyone in the books is a vicious douchebag.

The show Thenns have definitely made them look more vicious. Then again, it was mentioned several times that the clans don't get along very well in both the book and the show and would fight amongst themselves. Mance uniting all of them towards one purpose was definitely a feat.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 21, 2014 -> 11:43 AM) Okafor is going to be absolutely dominate in college. He's so far ahead of most big men his age in terms of footwork and touch. He reminds me of Al Jefferson. I don't know how college teams are going to guard him. Really impressed with Mudiay too, and there are a ton of other interesting freshmen. Then again, this last class wasn't quite as good as the hype, so who knows.

I like Arizona personally. Good combination of size, athleticism and experience. Then again, I've also been impressed with what I've seen from Okafor and Jones (which is admittedly a small sample).

QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 19, 2014 -> 07:25 AM) Last night there were numerous tweets that the nba cap may go up 5 mill which people said made it even more likely memo to bulls. This was on Stein and KC J Twitter. It would still be a VERY tight squeeze to sign him outright since Melo/Rose/Noah would be somewhere in the low-50's. It's basically impossible (with the "basically" accounting for a Melo paycut/rules I missed) if Gibson or Mirotic are on the team and still really tough if you have several of Dunleavy/Butler/Snell/first rounders. The positive is that gives them a lot more breathing room under the luxury tax if they can pull off a sign-and-trade.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 03:49 PM) We arent even considering the Mirotic situation here Probably going to need the full MLE for him, which would be tough with Melo.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 03:04 PM) So just to make sure I understand: if they get Melo in a S&T, they can still use the mini-MLE? After double-checking the FAQ, I was mistaken. The tax-payer/mini MLE can no longer be used if a team acquires a player in a sign and trade in the same season. This changed after 2012/13.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) Question: if the Bulls do get Melo in a S&T, do they still get to use their MLE or are they just stuck trying to find guys for the minimum salary? They can only use the full MLE if they can stay below the tax line, and that includes the value of that contract. If they give someone the full MLE, they can't go over the tax line for any reason. Otherwise they only get the mini-MLE which is around $3 million. If they opt to try to use cap space to sign Melo out-right, they can't use the MLE. You can't use both cap space and the MLE. Your exceptions are actually used as cap holds until you give them up.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) So, how do you balance a S&T with the Knicks? It would seem to take a lot more than Taj and picks, as I have read to be suggested Pretty much need them to take Boozer as filler. It's really hard to get up around $20 mil without that. Ditching Taj is more of a pre-requisite to get team salary low enough to sign Melo outright.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) Meaning when trades are made in the NBA, the money has to be close, correct? Do draft picks hold an associated value(slotting, whatever) that will make the trade with the Knicks balance out? No.

QUOTE (Brian @ Mar 30, 2014 -> 08:47 PM) Wiggins going pro. Draft is going to be stacked. -Captain Obvious I think you'll end up with 2 or 3 franchise players and 5 All-Stars, but I wouldn't bet a significant sum of money on any individual player getting there.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 29, 2014 -> 04:55 PM) If we can get Aaron Gordon with that pick I would be so happy. I'm not sure why he's that low on draft boards but he is, at least for now. I'd gladly take that over a future lottery pick. Because he's extremely limited offensively and doesn't have ideal size for a 4. Still, I doubt he falls out of the top-10 with his athleticism.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 09:34 PM) Come on. That's a terrible comparison. Something better would be comparing a 19 year old lebron to a 21 year old Duncan. Or even a 19 year old to only a 20 year old Elton Brand. How about a 19 year old Dwight Howard vs a 22 year old Emeka Okafor (same draft class). Clearly some guys are more talented, but age and experience make a difference early on. GMs don't care overall if guys are more ready, but that doesn't change the fact that the older guys were more ready. These guys don't need to go to the NCAA. Maybe the two year rule helps the NBDL or Europe? I was clearly picking an awful comparison to make a point. At the moment, the NCAA is easily the best option for them. They get far more exposure there, which is good for their stock. Europe is a terrible idea for most guys. Not only do you have to adjust to a totally different style of basketball and team management, you have to move overseas with a limited support system and a completely different culture. I've read that most of the coaches don't deal with young guys well. Not all of them actually pay you either supposedly. The D-League is a possibility eventually. It's not really supported well enough at this point though and teams generally don't send legitimate talents down there. If they built that up so it was a viable alternative, I would have no problem with a setup similar to baseball (enter from high school or stay in college multiple years). Teams need to have the option to call guys up early if they're killing people down there though. That's really my main issue: they're assuming that guys under 20 "aren't ready" when we've seen a bunch of guys that have been already.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 05:32 PM) You can't honestly see the difference between drafting someone at an older age vs a younger age? Fine, you take a 23 year old Taj Gibson, I'll take a 19 year old Lebron. Deal? Plenty of GM's are perfectly fine taking guys after one year. A quick look at the top of the drafts this decade will show that. If they're SOOOO concerned about not taking raw guys that "aren't ready", then they don't have to. They take the best talent though, which in this day and age is generally going to be the younger guy. I posted a link to the study that pointed that out, and someone else posted the one about improvement being greater in the NBA. But I guess the NCAA needs and deserves that money more than the players...

QUOTE (Boogua @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 05:10 PM) If only he had to play one more year in college... Although last years draft was terrible. It was 2 years ago. Drummond or Beal would have turned out much better, and Barnes would have been better too (not counting Lillard because they weren't taking a point). Cleveland (Waiters) and Sacramento (Robinson) can't be any happier.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 04:58 PM) MKG was looked at as a consensus #2. Zeller, yeah, didn't like that one but it was also a s*** draft. I'm more intrigued with what the Bobcats do in this draft. "Consensus" is a bit strong. I will say it wasn't laughed at when it happened. As for this draft, they might only get Portland's pick. The Bulls are probably getting their pick, and Detroit's is top-8 protected.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 04:43 PM) Charlotte is actually turning it around due to the hirings MJ made. As a GM he was bad. Owner? He ain't that bad. Try again. They're still only on pace for 39 wins and used their last two first rounders on Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Cody Zeller. Not exactly setting the world on fire. That said, Cleveland, Detroit and Milwaukee would be better examples.

Actually, I forgot the biggest downside to this rule change: it has to be collectively bargained. The Player's Union is going to extract something it wants from the owners because of this.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 04:22 PM) So I'm confused. What's the downside of this again? That executives will still draft poorly? I can see the downside for the player wanting to be leave early, but for the NBA? You're waiting an extra year to get the next studs for no good reason. It lets no-talent bums take up a spot at the end of the bench instead of replacing them with someone with potential that excites the fans. It's going to kill the quality of the draft for a few years until the talent pool normalizes, and you're likely going to flood the market with even more of those dreaded guys that "aren't ready" the draft before it's announced. And it obviously punishes incoming players with fairly questionable value returned to the NBA.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:55 PM) I am not assuming anything. I said it will improve the process, not perfect it. Every year you get to observe a player is another year to give you a better picture of the player. You get another year of physical maturity, of mental maturity, of basketball IQ, etc. If you pushed it to three or four years, it would improve even more. It is the same thing in baseball where the high school draftees are way bigger questions than the college kids. It doesn't mean the college kids projections are perfect, it just means they are better, because you have more information to analyze. This argument is silly. Executives make terrible decisions even when they've seen guys play In the NBA. Kwame Brown was such a bust, yet he's still made over $80 million in the NBA. He's still collecting checks right now. If we wait until NBA executives get enough info to make the right decision more often than not, the players will be collecting retirement benefits before they enter the draft.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:37 PM) You push the Tyrus Thomas's and Kwame Brown's of the world down the draft board, and push the Jimmy Butler's and Taj Gibson's up it. It gets the guys who will be solid, but not spectacular NBA players into better positions, while exposing the players who while they might have potential, but are never going to realize it. Those are the differences that are being talked about here. Tyrus Thomas wasn't a one-and-done player, so the rule wouldn't have affected him. We also don't know what Brown would have done in college. Maybe he dominates and still goes high. Andre Drummond didn't even play that well and he was still a top-10 pick. And again, you're assuming that the right people will get picked early when the entirety of NBA history suggests they won't. I've thrown around probably a dozen upperclassmen that sucked in this list that went early in the draft. Teams are still going to pick the guys that they think have the highest potential whether there is an age limit or not. Doug McDermott is not going to go #1 with this rule change.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Do you really want to go through all the highly drafted high schoolers? Those guys you mentioned aren't all that common. Wade was in college for 3 years (played 2). Hinrich and Collison were both pegged fine. The history of the guys drafted out of high school aren't that bad. Here's a list of every player drafted out of high school. The vast majority of the drafted high schoolers stuck in the NBA. I only see 8 guys out of 42 that haven't stuck around longer than 4 years. That's a pretty damn good rate.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) Some of them are. Some are riding pine, getting limited minutes and once the NBA season starts, not getting much practice time in. Sticking around a couple years or more didn't hurt Hakeem or Jordan or Magic or Bird. I don't think they would have been much better had they turned pro after they were freshman. Obviously this increases the chances of an NBA team not making a mistake, and that is what is all about, but there are a ton of underclassmen who make themselves eligible for the draft that never get drafted. This could ultimately help the college game as well. It will cost some players some money, but if they can play, they will eventually get paid. That's basically my point, I don't think how long you stayed is anywhere near the top variable in determining a guy's effectiveness. I don't think those guys staying hurt them, and I don't think Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Melo, ect would have had better careers if they stayed. There will be some guys that aren't truly ready and will flame out. There are also some guys that will get hurt/get exposed/lose their eligibility if they have to stick around. I don't see this as some major thing the NBA should be pushing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:13 PM) But if you push back everyone a year, some of the guys get weeded out. It isn't perfect, but it is a hell of a lot easier to project a 22 year old, than an 18 year old. It is easier to project with every additional year of knowledge you have about a player. Period. Some guys come on late, some guys never reach potential, etc. You're not necessarily weeding out the right guys though. When you're comparing guys that haven't been picked over yet, sometimes you end up taking Adam Morrison or Wesley Johnson in the top-5. You're tying "readiness" to age, which isn't any more reliable. In fact, it's historically been better to take younger players in the draft. EVERY player needs to make improvements when you get to the league, even if you stay for 7 years. There's still a big difference between playing against college kids and against the pros. At some point, you're better off improving your competition. The guys that this rule affects are mostly the ones that should do that earlier.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:05 PM) Yeah, but aren't the one and done guys usually better players to begin with than the 2 year guys? The problem with the study is they can't study the same players doing different things. That's definitely a flaw. That said, the counterpoint would be how much better guys like Durant, Beasley, Oden, Melo ect. could get in their second year of college. It does make sense when you think about it. They're facing better competition, they're playing more games, there's no limits on how much you can practice, you can see coaches in the off-season without it being a violation, ect.