ZoomSlowik

QUOTE (lord chas @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 04:01 PM) I may be wrong, but thought I have heard that using the amnesty on Boozer this year would provide minimal cap room. They don't gain much from releasing guys, which is why I semi-sarcastically made that post. The only way they can get any kind of cap space is after this season if they let Deng walk and amnesty Boozer. At that point, they might have about $10 million in space. However, as I said, you have to drop two of your top-6 for basically nothing. You'd be looking at Rose/$10 million FA SG or SF/Butler/Gibson/Noah with rookie contract/vet minimum guys as your bench. Oh, and you wouldn't have any exceptions to use because you can't use both cap space and the exceptions. If you want to sign Mirotic, any money you spend on him comes out of your space to find a starting wing. That's why any talk of "improving their cap situation" is silly to me. It's not like they're in a position to go out and get Lebron if he decides to leave Miami. The only "flexibility" they need is to be far enough under the apron to eventually bring over Mirotic, and even that is really only necessary for one year (I believe they'd have to be at $69 million with the current cap figures). Other than that, they need to be focused on the talent, not the contracts (within reason of course).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 03:51 PM) So the Bulls lose both their pick this year, the Bobcats pick, and Deng, and don't wind up with any improvement in their cap situation out of it? Step 1- amnesty Boozer Wow, your cap situation improved!

Just to add to this a bit... 1) They'd likely have to do something with Taj in this situation. They'd have something like $13 million for Mirotic and Taj off the bench, which is a lot. Ideally, he'd get dealt for a wing. Or I suppose he could go in the trade. 2) As I said, it's moot anyways because it'd take some kind of miraculous 3-team trade to get Aldridge to Chicago.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 03:24 PM) If they Amnesty Boozer and Deng isn't immediately resigned next offseason, the Bulls will be at $47 million counting this year and next year's draft picks and assuming they don't sign anyone. That room to play with would be fairly useful Yes, IF they amnesty Boozer, which is what I said. Without that decision, they're back in the mid-60's with several roster spots still left to fill. If you acquire Aldridge and amnesty Boozer, you're still in the low-60's, only now you have a 20-9 type big on the roster while still having enough room to add Mirotic. Or to word it a different way, acquiring Aldridge wouldn't be what prevents them from adding Mirotic, it will be keeping Boozer's bloated contract figure on the roster.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 03:18 PM) Isn't that exactly what happened when they played the Bulls in 2011? The 2 teams beat the living daylights out of each other, nobody could score, and the Heat closed better. It's a little different shutting down the Heat in the "we're starting Joel Anthony and Mike Bibby's corpse" era and the more recent versions of the Heat.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 03:11 PM) Because the Bulls cannot take Aldridge's salary on without giving up an equal amount of salary. Worse, since Deng's contract ends next year but Aldridge's doesn't, they could put themselves in a position where they can't find the money to bring over Mirotic either. Yeah, that's a bit of a stretch since they're at that point anyways unless they amnesty Boozer. Unless you think they'd really just let Deng walk with no significant replacements...

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 02:50 PM) Is it Aldridge, Batum or both that you have a mancrush on? I can't remember. Anyway, yeah, I agree with all of this. Aldridge >> Boozer without any hesitation. I loved Aldridge out of the draft and early career. Now he's just a garden-variety fringe-star. Batum's just an interesting player, never really a guy I was enthralled with.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 02:53 PM) I'm of the opposite opinion...I think the way the new CBA has shaped up, late lottery picks have even grown in value from the time the Bulls got that pick traded to them. A guy who contributes somewhat under a rookie contract has never been more valuable in the NBA, and that's what late lottery picks can do. I wouldn't say they've gone up in value, guys contributing on rookie contracts have always been valuable. The problem is two fold 1) Finding a guy that can be a starter-caliber player in the late lottery, 2) We're not talking about a 2013 or 2014 pick even, we're likely looking at 2015 or 2016. That means it can easily be 4 or 5 years before they get a guy that "contributes somewhat" out of that pick. How much of Rose's prime are we going to waste treading water?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 02:09 PM) Would not come anywhere close to giving up the Charlotte pick for Aldrige unless the Bulls were clearing a ton of cap space. I think we should stop thinking that the Charlotte pick is going to be a major piece. Remember, they have to be terrible for THREE more seasons before it's unprotected. If they hit any picks at all over the next 3 drafts (and they are owed two more potential lottery picks), it's going to be a late lottery pick. Then factor in that most rookies need 2 or 3 years to be really effective and it could be a totally different roster by the time it pays off at all. Noah will be in his mid-30's by then.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 26, 2013 -> 01:47 PM) http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2013062...orts/706259711/ Aldridge wants out of Portland and wants in on the Bulls. I don't see how we can pull it off. We'd have to trade Deng + Boozer. The thing is, why would Portland want Deng and maybe a 20 in this year's pick for Aldridge if they're rebuilding. You'd think they'd rather get a much higher pick and a good young player that isn't expiring. I really like Aldridge, but is he THAT big of an upgrade over Boozer? I don't like Boozer much, but let's be realistic here. Booz was putting up .550 TS% and plays a similar type of game to Aldridge before this year. The only reason we hated Boozer was for his defense and his playoff disappearances. The problem is that Aldridge isn't much more efficient than Boozer on offense, probably won't play much better defense, and doesn't have a great playoff resume himself. He is 4 years younger, so there's that. But I don't know if I'd empty the bank for Aldridge with Mirotic on the way. And we sure as hell shouldn't be even thinking of giving up Joakim for him. Aldridge isn't a tier-one star, but he's definitely better than Boozer. You have to remember that Boozer's plus/minus numbers in Chicago are just horrendous. They were -8.7/100 possessions with him on the floor this year, -8.6 in 11/12 and a more respectable but still bad -3.1 in 10/11. Now admittedly part of that is the freakishness of Taj's D off the bench (Noah was a minus on D before this year too), but it makes sense when you watch the Bulls and that doesn't explain why he was a -4 offensively this year. His help defense is brutal and he frequently disappears offensively, especially against quality athletes. There are several reasons to think Aldridge would be more effective. 1) He's much more mobile defensively and has been solidly positive on that end for Portland (3.4, 7.8 and 6 points better the last 3 years). 2) He's much longer than Boozer, which means he can get his shot off against anyone. 3) He's a more dangerous mid-range shooter, which would improve the Bulls' spacing (admittedly he shoots a few too many, which is why his TS% isn't higher even though he's a good finisher). 4) Most importantly, he's young and still in his peak while Boozer is on the decline. However, it's moot because it's not happening. Portland reportly rejected #1 and #19 from Cleveland rather quickly, which doesn't bode well for the Bulls. They don't really have any reason to take on Deng or Boozer and wouldn't be offering any young pieces as interesting as #1. In theory, they might be able to do it for Noah or Butler and the Cats' pick, but neither one really makes sense.

I guess my main issue is I'm not in love with any of the wings they might get at that pick. I'd have much rather had Beal or Barnes. Oladipo, I'm sure they love him for his defense and he'd be a great fit on a team like OKC that has two other guys to do the heavy lifting offensively. However, I'm not sure he'll ever be the answer on that end for the Bulls, and unless they pull a stud out of their ass, they can't put more than one limited offensive player on the floor regularly (and I'm counting Noah and Gibson in that category). Porter, he's a pretty safe prospect that should be able to start, but he doesn't have great upside. MAYBE he can be a Danny Granger type, but I wouldn't bet on him being better than Deng. That means the main benefit with him is financial, and as I said, the Bulls would have a hard time getting max space. McLemore, I just don't know. He has the 3-point shot and the athleticism you look for, but it's hard to say if he'll be a real difference maker. He very rarely put the ball on the floor and created his own shot at Kansas, so I'm somewhat dubious that he's going to be a potential All-Star wing. A lot of the experts have compared him to Brandon Rush, that should terrify you if your team drafts him. That's a little harsh since he'd be my pick for the Bulls, but I'm not sold that he'll be more than a low-teens scorer in the NBA. Basically, my opinion is that in order to break up a likely 60-win team, you had better be pretty confident the move will eventually pay off down the road. I don't see that in this draft.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) Is there any hope of Teague making a Butler like jump? Wasn't the plan when signing Kirk to play him a bit at SG? Could we see a Rose/Teague PG duo with a ?/Hinrich SG duo? I don't really see how Teague makes a meaningful difference in the standings unless Rose gets hurt. Rose is probably going to play 35 a night if not more, leaving only 13 for the backup (some of which would go to Kirk). Teague isn't really an option at the 2. We'll probably see Kirk at the 2, but we should all be very afraid if their plan is to give him significant minutes there.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 02:19 PM) Hinrich, Teague, Rose, #3/#1 pick is a moderately deep backcourt assuming whoever they draft can come in and at least start out of the gates. Yes, they would need to use the MLE (or mini-MLE) to sign someone to provide additional depth in there. The trick winds up being what they'd take back for Deng. If they have to take back Okafor...they have their backup C for the year, but they lose that financial flexibility. If they can move Deng's salary off completely, that clears money for this year (and also gets them under the tax line so they're not repeat-offending). Not really because those first three are all point guards. Teague isn't going to add meaningful minutes at either the 2 or the 3 and Hinrich isn't going to add any at the 3. You would absolutely need to add a SG/SF that can handle major minutes with the MLE, especially since a rookie from this class isn't likely to give you 35 quality minutes at the 2. With your current situation, you have two wing players that can/will play huge minutes, so you can afford to just add a designated shooter off the bench for that position.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 02:09 PM) The Bulls are sitting at $73 million right now. If you clear Boozer and Deng while taking no salary back, that drops them to $43 million. But, a high draft pick is somewhat pricey; third pick is guaranteed $3.5 million, 1st pick $5 million. The cap has hung at around $58 million the last couple years and probably stays close to that. If the Bulls could move both of them while taking no money back, they're close to $48 million and could sign an $8-$10 million player under the cap this year. It's not even that high because of cap holds. That $43 million is for only 7 players (with only 5 of them being actual rotation players since it includes Teague and Thomas), which means they need to fill 6 more roster spots. When you factor in the high pick that they're talking about getting, you're not going to end up with any more room than with the full MLE.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 02:03 PM) If they could amnesty Boozer, trade Deng, sign a SG then what about this Alex Len cat? Wouldn't Noah and Len give the Heat fits down low? They both seem athletic enough to play the 4 or the 5. Does trading Deng and using the amnesty on Boozer free up enough money to get a Mayo/Ellis/Evans/Derozan? Are any of those guys even a good pair with Rose? Edit- I guess doing all this before they see who is actually available via FA could be a bad move. You should really just stop thinking about the Bulls having any cap space. They have way too many big contracts to add another one via free agency. Also, Alex Len is a project that should end up being a pure center.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) Trading Deng for a 2014 draft pick would not be "White Flagging it" for this year given what the roster looks like right now. Butler can slide into Deng's starting role, they still have players in the backcourt, and they would have the MLE to fill in the gaps without doing long-term damage to their financial flexibility. That said, Steve continues to be right; the front office just isn't that aggressive. They do? Other than the rookie they'd likely draft with the pick that will be a downgrade, who are their other 2-guard/wing players? Hinrich? They'd still have the tax payer MLE as is, the only difference it would make is allowing them to pay about $5 million instead of 3. That's not exactly going to be the difference between Keith Bogans and Kobe Bryant. Moving Deng also doesn't "improve their financial flexibility" at all since he's an expiring contract. It's not a complete "white flag", but it clearly hurts their current team.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) I'm fine dumping Gibson. He's basically Noel right now, right? Plus defender and average (at best) offensively. For every highlight dunk Gibson gets he bricks 10 wide open 12 foot jumpers. I seriously hope last year was just a bad year for him. And if the Bulls are trading Deng for a prospect they're already raising the white flag on competing until 2014 (or more likely 2015). So you can be patient with Noel. But I agree, they have bigger needs. If they can get the #3 pick and get some frontcourt depth, that's the better move. I think you're missing the point on my "dump" comment. How many teams are going to give you major assets for a backup making $8 mil a year? You'd likely struggle to get similar value back for him. That's important because they're trying to build their roster, not take away from it like they have the last couple of years. I'm not remotely a fan of the "white flag" trade given they're a likely 60-win team with decent health. That's basically my point, the return on a trade like that in this draft is at least as likely to result in a step back if not moreso. Who is your starting SF if you draft Noel? You're taking apart your team that should be on the short list of contenders for a guy that most think would be about as good as your current starting center if he pans out.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 01:34 PM) Well I was thinking about that - why not draft Noel and have him play alongside Noah as your PF? That'd be a pretty awesome defensive tandem. It'd be equally pitiful offensively. It would also likely result in dumping Gibson somewhere since you'd have roughly $30 million tied up in Noah, Noel, Gibson and Mirotic for the near future. It also sets you back for 2013/14 since he's going to miss a large chunk of the season and probably take him at least two years to be an above-average starter. It's just not a big need for the Bulls. If he were some 20-10 threat, okay, but they already have two athletic bigs with questionable offensive abilities.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) I just don't see how they get past the Heat with Boozer. Meh, everyone has a hole here or there, even the Heat. Besides, it's not like that trade would change anything up front unless they took Noel (which seems unlikely).

I can't believe I'm saying this given my pessimism last year, but I think I'd rather take my chances with the Bulls' current core this year. Rose/Butler/Deng/Boozer/Noah is a very solid starting 5 even though it doesn't feature a second star. Hinrich also looks far better as a backup PG and they still have Taj. My only real concern would be questionable outside shooting, which could be addressed by adding a wing off the bench or two. Of course if we were talking about a top-5 pick in the 2014 pick instead of the 2013 draft, my answer would be very different. I just don't see the value that the phrase "#1 pick" would normally deliver. Noel is really a luxury for the Bulls unless they do something drastic with their frontcourt. Long-term, you're likely looking at Noah/Mirotic/Gibson, which is a capable 3-man rotation. A wing would make more sense, but your top three options (McLemore, Oladipo and Porter) aren't exactly can't-miss options. I don't think you can say with any kind of confidence that any of those three will be better than Butler or Deng in the next 3 years. There is certainly a financial benefit, but that affects JR's checking account more than your roster flexibility. Rose+Noah+Taj is almost $40 million already and the #1 pick and Mirotic is about $10 million more. That leaves MAYBE $10 million for the other 8 roster spots. If they had a shot at Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker it'd be a no-brainer, but then Cleveland wouldn't even consider trading the pick.

"Mutual interest" between Oden and Heat That would certainly be interesting. I'd be shocked if he can stay healthy, but they could use his size.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 11:37 AM) Bosh is still a great player, he is just an awful fit for what Spol and the Heat have on the floor and run on offense. Using him like Brad Sellers is bad. Honestly the Heat would be better served by making room for guys that compliment LeBron and Wade better, because Bosh isn't it. Someone like Noah would be perfect there3. Not really. What they try to do with Bosh is pull the big man away from the rim with his shooting ability. Roughly half of his shots were outside of 16 feet this year. That fits his skillset, but he's not using his ability to drive past slower bigs much. They need as much shooting as possible on the floor when they use Lebron and Wade, otherwise the paint becomes a clogged mess. Bosh is also very useful for them defensively because he's mobile enough to hedge aggresssively on the pick and roll and still recover or briefly switch onto the perimeter player. Noah would help their defense since he has similar mobility, rebounds better and seems to hold up better in the post defensively. However, he'd be an issue offensively because his offensive impact outside of 5 feet is a little-used jumper and some high-post passing. He's also nowhere near as effective as Bosh at the rim (62% conversion rate compared to 75.5% from Bosh this year. If you prefer career, Noah has usually been 57-59% with a 61.7 in 10/11 and Bosh is usually north of 63% with several other seasons above 66%). I don't think there's a "perfect fit" in the NBA right now for their frontcourt. Pretty much everyone is going to have substantial pluses and minuses if you switch them for Bosh. Even guys like Dwight (shooting), Love (defense) and Griffin (shooting and defense) have some issues. The only guys I can think of that might fit all of their needs better than Bosh are Marc Gasol (sacrifice a little offense for a lot of D), Al Horford (similar to Bosh offensively, probably a little more durable in the post) and possibly Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins in a year or two.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 10:36 AM) I really think moving Bosh would be a mistake. He was terrible offensively in the series but he made up for it and more with his defense and rebounding down low. If they could get him onto the elbow and down low more often, he'd be a really dangerous player. Instead, he's shooting from the top of the key and from 3, and he's just terrible at both of those. I think it'd be hard to get a deal that makes them better. A couple of early rumors were DeMarcus Cousins (god, I hope not) and something built around Varejao (which doesn't really help unless they get #1 too), but I don't know how likely they are to get something like that. Basically they just need him to get back to being aggressive offensively. He used to get like 6 shots a game at the rim and get to the line 8 times, he was down to 4 and 4 this year. He's a really good #2 option if he gets back to those numbers. Playing center definitely doesn't help him on D, but he should be able to get around them fairly easily on offense.

If it were me, I'd start giving Wade the Manu/Spurs treatment. Bring him off the bench, limit his minutes in the regular season (more like 30 MPG) and give him a few "DNP-old" games when the schedule/minor injuries dictate it. We've seen what Lebron can do with improved spacing. Of course there are a few issues with that... 1) Wade probably isn't going to take it very well. 2) You need two of Allen, Miller and Battier to stay productive, preferrably all three. 3) It would also help if Bosh stayed aggressive offensively instead of turning into Antawn Jamison. Okay, coming off the bench might be asking a bit much. However, they should definitely be more careful with him and should start shifting to Bosh as their #2 option (assuming he's still there, but that's another discussion).

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 12:19 AM) I think Leonard and Jimmy Butler are extremely similar players. Leonard is a bit ahead of Butler in terms of his development, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind if Butler turns out to be what Leonard is now. Meh, at least so far, give me Leonard by a decent margin. When Butler was playing basically the entire game, he was about as productive as Kawhi is in 30-35 minutes. Butler should be a solid 2, but Leonard looks like a fringe All-Star in the near future.