ZoomSlowik

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Aug 13, 2012 -> 12:47 PM) If they give Davis a ton of minutes even 12 points a game isnt unreasonable. But 12 points isnt a #1 scoring option. Well, I did say "reasonable expectation". I don't think you would be laughed at if you said he was going to average 12-10, though I think that's far from a lock. We won't really know until he starts playing some games, any guesses now are based on his skillset. He definitely gets points more from transition/lobs/putbacks than post moves/drives/jumpshots at this point, though I do think playing with so many monsters at Kentucky cut back on his opportunities a bit. Also, very few big men come in and dominate from day 1, even most of the elite ones needed a couple of years to hit their peak. I also think there's a difference between "#1 option" and "best player", we had people using it in different ways in this discussion. Davis would probably make a bigger impact than Gordon if he's averaging something like 16-10, but Gordon would still be their top scorer and probably their main shot-creator unless they get a really solid PG. Like most big men nowadays, Davis isn't really a low-post threat, which makes it hard to run offense through him. I do think they could have a pretty good team with those two as the main building blocks, but they could use a sizeable upgrade at the PG spot (at least someone like Mike Conley) and get someone a little more dangerous at the 3.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Aug 13, 2012 -> 12:12 PM) Davis is extremely raw, I cant imagine any team will get very far with him as their #1 option. Right now he is likely going to be an above average defender and below average on offense. He's definitely not a scorer yet. A reasonable expectation would be something like 8-8 with a bunch of blocks, possibly a bit better. NOLA is at least a year away I would think, maybe more. They really only have one decent perimeter player right now (Vasquez is alright at best, and Rivers will probably have adjustment issues early on in the NBA). We'll also have to see how good Ryan Anderson is without Dwight drawing double-teams and covering for him defensively.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 13, 2012 -> 11:33 AM) But he isn't healthy. He has a history of injuries and on top of it is a defensive liability at the 2 spot. The guy is a tweener that is a great scorer. I continue with my statement, you do not win a title with him as your 2nd best player. You're really missing the point. No one ever said Gordon was the second coming of Kobe. The point is he's a much better player/building block than Arron Afflalo, a guy that struggles to get his own shot.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 12, 2012 -> 11:29 PM) Gordon is pretty overrated though. He's not a true max player and you aren't going to win a title with him as your 2nd best player. The Hornets didn't do all that good for Paul either. It was better then the Lakers offer, but still. The reality is when you deal a super star, you typically are going to be the big loser, unless of course you get lots of cheap young players and draft picks and then just a couple expirings. However, rarely does that happen. And in the Magic case, they got some solid players, and a bunch of picks that will be relatively worthless (nothing that will be a high lottery pick). Gordon is a hell of a player when he's actually healthy, which admittedly isn't often. There are maybe 10 "true max players" in the league, so that's beside the point. He's one of the few shooting guards in the league that's capable of scoring 20 points without taking 20 shots. He can get to the rim and hit jumpers, which makes him pretty valuable. They also got an unprotected 2012 lottery pick out of the deal, which is a lot better than any of the picks the Magic got (and it might have been more valuable, but the T-Wolves did a bit better than people expected). I believe I said you're going to lose when you trade a superstar, but there are degrees of losing. Getting zero lottery picks and Arron Afflalo as the best young player in the deal is a pretty major loss. Afflalo is a decent role player, but is miscast as a leading scorer. The main benefit from this will come from the several high lottery picks they're going to get while they're awful.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Aug 11, 2012 -> 10:08 PM) It ultimately depends, if the Magic can get a top 3 pick in the next 2 seasons, that's going to be pretty attractive for a free agent IMO. Even if they can say end up with the 5th - 6th pick, they should be able to trade up into the top 3 if they want to considering the multiple 1st rounders they have now. New Orleans for instance is a decent enough model to follow for what they've done this off-season. They're a team I think could definitely make the playoffs in the West if all goes well for them this season. The Hornets got Eric Gordon in a trade, who's a lot better than Afflalo, and lucked into the #1 pick. The playoffs are also still a bit of a stretch for them, they'lre pretty thin on proven talent and play in a much stronger west.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 09:09 PM) Exactly, so to me, you acquire more future assets and re-load. Especially considering Bynum's knees. Affalo will probably become a 20PPG a game scorer for us as the #1 option. If SVG was still coaching us, I'd say potentially we could be a 35 win team still with that lineup you've posted, I'm thinking probably more around the 25 wins mark for the upcoming season instead. Hennigan now needs to look at trading Harrington and Davis for future picks to free up more playing time for Harkless and Nicholson. I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. Afflalo was like the 4th best player on the Nuggets. Harrington had his best year in a while and still wasn't exactly good. Nelson might be the worst starting PG in the league (is he even still there? I don't totally know, haven't looked at the salary dumps). Davis is a below average starter and you're probably not going to get much from Vucevic or Harkless. Even if Ayon does as well as their past backup centers, that's pretty awful. On paper, they're worse than the Cavs were post-Lebron. They don't have any scorers, and as you said, their defense is going to take a huge step back. Oh, and the top-3 free agents for 2014 already made it obvious that they're not interested in Orlando. Basically they're going to be praying to the lottery gods for 3 or 4 years.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 08:59 PM) I was referring to if the Magic just got Bynum in a deal for Howard. To me, that'd be a 6th-7th placed team in the East with the talent he'd have around him. People are going to see how valuable Howard is now (which is ironic considering all the Rose vs. Howard MVP talk a year and a half ago) as Orlando will probably go from the 5th best defensive team in the NBA to the 5th worst team. Meh, the rest of that lineup would be pretty awful, as I posted in my edit. Bynum isn't an instant 50 wins like Dwight was.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 08:51 PM) I think Orlando is still a pretty attractive place for a free agent, mainly because of Florida having no state income tax and the good weather as you've said, but obviously it's not a Big Market team. But the Magic haven't had the cap room to sign max FA players since the Rashard Lewis signing, and that just shows the ineptiude of Otis Smith as a GM, who loved forking out the MLE to the likes of Mickael Pietrus every off-season. I would rather blow it up and rebuild from the ground up than be stuck in 6th - 7th place mediocrity for the next 5 years, and Magic fans pretty much agree with this scenario. They want to do exactly what OKC and San Antonio do, build through the draft, and Orlando has been horrible at that for a long - time. The only good 1st round picks they've had in the last 10 years are Howard, Nelson and Redick. They wouldn't be anywhere close to 6th or 7th place with Dwight gone. They might have been worse than the Bobcats regardless. Seriously, what's your best-case lineup this scenario? Nelson/Afflalo/Richardson/Davis/Ayon with Hedo on the bench? That's pretty awful.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 08:03 PM) What you have to remember as well, if Howard opted-out of his player option back in March, he walks away, and the Magic would be stuck with the likes of J-Rich and Duhon still. Would have set them back another 2-3 years. At least now, the Magic can reload for 2014. It's going to be A LOT longer than 2014 before they're back. They pretty much burned this team to the ground. Cap space probably won't be that useful in the next couple of years since it's going to be a tough sell to get guys to join that roster. They're going to need to pull a Thunder and hit homers on more than one lottery pick. I suppose one could argue Florida is an attractive FA destination due to the weather, but they haven't signed a real stud (don't tell me Rashard, that was all money) since Hill and McGrady and lost every star they did have.

Westbrook limped off the floor, went right to the locker room.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 03:18 PM) Looking at the return Orlando got, they f***ed up by waiting so long. Meh, I think it's just bad pieces on the interested teams (the Nets giving away the #6 pick certainly didn't help). The Nuggets got way more for Melo in the same situation, the Hornets got more for Paul (who didn't opt-in for this year until after the trade). Hell, the Jazz got more for Williams, and they didn't trade him that much earlier.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 03:14 PM) http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/05/ano...nba-super-trio/ Don't know how that'd work with 2 6'3" PGs but they have all talked. Love has already started rumbling about wanting out of Minnesota, Deng may still be around. And Dwight was already pouting 2 seasons ago about "needing more help". There's no reason for Minnesota to trade him until the 2014 off-season.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) I think they're just too damn old, even with Dwight. Kobe - 34, Gasol -32, Nash - 38, MWP - 33, Jamison - 36. Their bench is still below average. They'll be good, of course. But give me the Thunder's young legs and another year's experience over LA. I agree, they have no hope of guarding Westbrook/Durant/Harden outside with the way their roster is constructed. Also, while they're not scoring threats, Ibaka and Perkins have the size to slow the Lakers down inside. At best, I think the Lakers are a push, and I'd favor OKC until LA plays together for a while.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 02:55 PM) Unless we can hold onto Taj in the trade, I'd rather have Love/Noah over Dwight/? A Love/Noah/Rose core would be phenomenal. I don't care if Kirk and Butler are the starting 2/3 with them that combo would be really really good. Once again, it's at least 90% certain that Noah would be involved in the trade, higher in Love's case. You have to be able to match salaries, and by the time Minnesota is forced to trade Love, Deng's deal will have expired and Boozer will probably be amnesty'd already. Unless they grossly overpay Taj, Noah would be their only option. Given that Love is a bad defender (while Dwight is a DPOY), that's pretty important.

Kind of funny watching the US Basketball pre-game for a couple of reasons... 1) They're spending most of the time talking about the Howard trade. Even when they talk about the actual games, they'll say stuff like "Kobe is smiling, probably because he's going to play with Dwight", or "Here's Pau Gasol, who will be joined by Dwight Howard this year." 2) Their color guy just happens to be Doug Collins, the coach of one of the teams involved in the trade.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 02:05 PM) I would trade everything not named Rose to get Love on the Bulls, he's such a great fit for the pick and roll with Rose. He'd be a great fit offensively, but Dwight is a better player and was just traded. The Bulls might be chasing 5 teams by the time Love is actually available.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) Loves good friends with Rose, if he comes he's likely to stay IMO. Boozer makes more mid range shots than he does at the rim. Dwight would be nice, there's no denying that, but if it means getting rid of Noah+ and Dwight doesn't come back then I'd just rather have Noah+ and not deal with Dwights drama he's sure to have at the end of the season. Love may or may not stay, and he's not available right now so it's moot. If you keep waiting for your chances to get studs, you end up losing out while other teams actually do something. Boozer averaged 3 shots made outside of 9 feet last year, and that was the most he had in a while. He's just not a good enough shooter to create significant space for Rose.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 01:21 PM) Do Howard or Bynum have a mid range game like Boozer? (no I'm not saying Boozers better than either of them before someone thinks im that stupid) What happens if we trade Noah and Howard/Bynum don't resign? Boozer isn't exactly Dirk Nowitzki. Anything you lose from the ability to hit maybe 2 mid-range jumpers a game is easily made up on their dunking prowess on pick and rolls, actually finishing if the big slides over to help on Derrick, or their improved finishing in transition. Plus they're guys that actually draw double teams, which would create cutting lanes for Derrick on the kickout. Boozer doesn't create space by drawing multiple defenders, he's just kinda there. You're kinda screwed if they don't re-sign, but how is that any different if you get Love in a year or two? That's a risk you have to take and the Lakers clearly aren't worried about it. They know he has to give up an extra year and more money if he wants to walk.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 12:59 PM) I sure would love to see Noah and Howard/Bynum clogging the lane so our superstar D Rose can drive into all that traffic. I'd rather have a Kevin Love next to Noah to stretch the floor. I'll sit back while your heads explode. Noah would be gone in either trade. Even if he somehow stayed, they wouldn't clog the lane anymore than Noah and Boozer do now.

I can't believe Steve didn't post this here yet. Dwight to LA: Lockout Totally Fixed Everything

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 10:39 AM) Bynum is the 2nd best center in the league. That aspect was fine, it is more the fact that Orlando at the end of the day got a bunch of hot garbage for Dwight. He was the 2nd best center in the league LAST YEAR, there's a difference. He actually stayed healthy all year and those were career highs in every category. He may or may not be able to replicate that in future seasons. There's also a HUGE gap between Dwight and Bynum. That's why the Magic keep winning at a 50+ win pace even with a s***ty roster around Dwight and the Lakers have struggled to advance in the post-season the last couple of years even with Kobe and Gasol as well.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 10, 2012 -> 09:43 AM) Wasn't what Bynum said that he was going to test free agency no matter what? If so, you still have that 5th year nobody else can offer. That's one of the stupid things I don't get with the new CBA: financially, it makes sense to test free agency. For whatever reason, he can only sign like 4-50 as an extension but he can get whatever the traditional monster deal is that Deron just signed if he hits the free agent market and then re-signs with his team. It's totally backwards, if you gave players an incentive to sign extensions maybe we'd avoid some of this bulls*** (or I guess they'd just try to get traded before free agency, but I digress).

Gotta love how the Lakers can turn a decent but inferior center to Dwight and a late first into the undisputed best big man in the league and a top-5 player. Philly and Denver did pretty well too, not that it's going to matter since it's at best a 3-team race this year barring catestrophic injuries. There are only two things keeping me sane right now: 1) If not for David Stern, the Lakers might have Dwight AND Chris Paul right now. 2) As much of an edge the Lakers will have inside with Dwight/Gasol, they'll be at just as huge of a disadvantage defensively on the perimeter against the other two contenders. Nash, Kobe, and whatever other trash they use have no hope of stopping Westbrook/Durant or Lebron/Wade.

LA seems to be trying to figure out how awful your other 9 players can be and still contend.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Aug 9, 2012 -> 12:31 PM) With scorers like KD, Russell, and Harden as long as he utilizes his great athleticism to play great D he'll make an impact. Lined up next to Iblocka SHOULD be an intimidating force, esp going up against Miami who loves to drive. He played with stellar athletes at Baylor too, didn't matter. He's not a good defender, that's a major part of his problem. He's a shooting guard trapped in a center's body, he doesn't play with any aggression and avoids contact. Unless they suddenly decide to amnesty Perkins, he's not going to start and probably won't get major minutes. You take Jones because of what he might be in 3 years, not because of what he's going to do this year. Edit- I'm just commenting on those two points, not saying Miami is completely unbeatable. I'd say they're a prohibitive favorite, but you never know what weird thing will happen between now and June (injury, one of the Thunder's young guys taking the next step, Dwight getting traded somewhere for another superteam, ect).