ZoomSlowik

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 01:48 PM) I don't consider Lawson a true PG, he's a scoring Pg if I've ever seen one. He's also efficient and a great shooter, so I think he'd work well with Derrick. Both players would have to adjust their game, no doubt. But so what? I've seen Rose play off the ball before too, it looked mighty effective. I'd like to give Rose a break every now and then too, it confuses the other team and switches things up a bit, makes us more effective I'd argue. Nobody we get is going to be perfect, there will be drawbacks to any player we get. This guy is good at this, but bad at that. This guy is a good shooter but he can't defend. This guy is a good penetrator but he can't shoot. This guy is efficient as hell but he can't take over games by himself. Name me one 2 guard we can get that can do it ALL He's a true point guard in that he can't defend the 2-guard position and everything on offense runs through him. You're basically begging other teams to post up your guards and your perimeter closeouts are going to be less effective due to a high lack of length. It hurts offensively too because neither guy is nearly as big a threat standing there on the perimeter waiting for the pass, especially Rose. They have to learn to generate shots in a totally different manner, which takes a lot of adjustment. There are a bunch of 2-guards that are good enough as an all-around player. A bunch of the vets like Kobe, Pierce, Manu and Joe Johnson, though some of them are fading. Harden, Martin (he blows defensively, but at least he's 6'7"), Gordon if he ever stays healthy, Marcus Thornton (though I'm not a huge fan of his), Paul George and Gordon Heyward are probably there in the next year or so. Klay Thompson looks like he's going to be very good. Arron Afflalo is a solid role player. Wes Matthews had a bad year but was very good the previous two. That's a lot more than one that all fit their needs reasonably well. There are also a handful more if you can replace Deng at SF with a better fit.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 01:25 PM) Well, who do you want to play alongside Rose? We need another guy who basically can do the same things Rose does, isn't that the whole point? To get another guy who can be option 1a? We don't need a one trick pony at the 2, we need someone who has similar skill sets to Derrick imo. No, you don't want another Rose because then you have two guys with decent but not great efficiency taking a ton of shots and trying to drive constantly. Both guys would see a drop in production because they're trying to do the exact same thing. Look what heppened to Monta when he went to Milwaukee. His production took a big hit, and Jennings isn't nearly as good and doesn't use nearly as many possessions as Rose. Lebron and Wade both take fewer shots than they used to as well, though they were both able to improve their conversion rates. What you need is a high efficiency player at the 2 or 3 (not a 5'11" true PG like Lawson) that doesn't need to spend half the shot clock dribbling in order to get his shot. Someone that can hit outside shots and spread the floor a bit but still generate shots when the opportunity presents itself. OKC has two wings that complement Westbrook (a very similar player to Rose) perfectly. Durant and Harden both move away from the ball and get plenty of catch-and-shoot looks but can still attack when the lane is open.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 01:19 PM) Its actually not, Thibs was frustrated with the amount of easy points we were leaving on the board because we couldn't reliably finish fast break opportunities. Too many times our fastbreaks turned into contested jumpers. and you'd be crazy not to want Monta or Ty if the price was reasonable. They're two guys who can legit take over games, isn't that exactly what we want next to Derrick? No, it's not. Neither of those guys are going to defend the 2-guard position reliably, and both need the ball to be good. Monta especially would be a disaster, he's a horribly inefficient player that takes contested jumpers in bulk. Lebron and Wade get away with it because they are probably the two best drivers in the league, neither of those guys are anywhere near that tier.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 01:00 PM) I'd love a Monta Ellis or a Ty Lawson or someone who actually is athletic like that to play offguard with Derrick. Not Ronnie freakin' Brewer, who can't dribble, can't pass and blows more dunks than he makes. That makes perfect sense, stick two guys that play almost exclusively with the ball in their hands to play "off guard". Having guys that can run and dunk is so far down the list of concerns for the Bulls.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 07:20 PM) He's another fast guard, he can pass and he can handle the ball. What else do you need to be good on a fast break? Nate is gonna help our running game fo sho Being able to finish things besides wide open dunks is what makes you good on the fast break. Watch the Heat or Thunder (That last thing I posted was raw fastbreak points. I have no idea on conversion percentage, but Lebron and Wade are both way better in the basket area than any Bulls, including Rose. It's also possible that some of their finishes don't count as "fastbreak" points.), the reason they're so dangerous in transition is their studs can consistently score even if there is someone back. Good decision making and passing help too. None of those things are exactly strengths for Robinson.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 07:19 PM) Thank god for zoom. Zoom can "hate" and nobody says anything to him. The Bulls are terrible and going nowhere at the moment. They will not get away with what they got away with last year in a normal season. No rose, an injury-prone starting lineup and a considerably weaker bench equals 30 wins. I don't know if I'd go that far. The Bulls have some problems, but they're still not as awful as a lot of the bottom feeders. They probably have the worst PG's in the league until Rose gets back (I actually had to analyze that for This article ranking the starting PG's that I wrote), and their SG's are serviceable at best even with healthy. But Deng is above average at SF and they still have a good frontcourt. Obviously injuries are the wildcard. They need basically perfect health to be over .500 with Rose out. If Noah or Deng misses extended time, things can get ugly.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 07:13 PM) I think Deng and Brewer are actually pretty durn bad on fastbreaks. Their conversion percentages in the basket area would argue otherwise. Regardless of what you think of them, Nate freakin' Robinson isn't any better.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 07:01 PM) This is the part you come in and start making unrealistic suggestions for what we should have done? Before Rip Hamilton came here, we had nobody who could even run the floor with Derrick. I was happy we just stopped looking lost on fast break opportunities I'll try to survive The Bulls were solidly in the middle of the pack last year in fast break points, tied for 13th with Miami. Any NBA player should be able to finish a fastbreak dunk. Noah, Deng and Brewer could all do that when the opportunity presented itself. The guys they picked up aren't going to improve that significantly, if at all.

Dude, I can post highlights of John Shurna that are more impressive than those dunks.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) If you want to move deng though, it's a lot easier next year when he has an expiring contract. At that point, Noah and Rose are your only bigger contracts, and then you have the option with Taj on what you want to do. Well, yeah, moving Deng would be important, though he'd be far more useful in taking someone on in a trade than as a pure salary dump.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 01:23 PM) I think it's perfectly logical to assume the offer to Taj will be stupid-high next offseason. By "stupid-high", I mean significantly more than $8 mil a year. Unless I'm missing something, Rose+Noah+$8 mil for Taj+4 rookie contracts (Butler, Teague, next two 1sts)= roughly $44 million. Obviously there would be some cap holds as well, but that's around $10 mil in space. The big variable there is what happens with Taj.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 01:09 PM) Fair enough. I'd prefer Mayo over Hinrich. Especially after we saw Watson get the vet min. I have a hard time believing we couldn't find a PG of Watson quality to cover our asses this season without putting any resources into it. But, next year we have a bunch of expiring contracts plus the amnesty. I'm not really convinced we should follow the model of "bulls failed in 00 and 10 therefore can never land anyone big", I think if we get flexibilty there will be people who will come to Chicago to play with Rose and in Chicago. The problem is they wouldn't really have any space unless they dumped multiple players. Even with Boozer gone, Rose/Deng/Noah is already $42 million. Then you add Kirk's deal (

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 01:00 PM) No, I was responding to J4L acting like it was ridiculous anyone could have defeated the heat this year, when they were very vulnerable up until game 6 of the ECF. People shouldn't make claims like "Bulls weren't title contenders" and then when challeneged say "It doesn't matter about what they WERE". If it didn't matter than it shouldn't constantly be stated. That's JFL. I've been saying for several pages that what happened in the past doesn't really matter.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 10:54 AM) This thread does a great job of making a silly argument, then arguing that we shouldn't be talking about the argument.This thread does a great job of making a silly argument, then arguing that we shouldn't be talking about the argument. The point remains that there were two hypothetical places the bulls could go this offseason: stand pat firesale Even though you can't run your org based on the feelings of your players, I can't imagine how Rose would react to them trading away all of his good teammates after he signed a contract. Now he has a legitimate reason to bust his ass to come back better and stronger: one last run with his teammates. Even with all of his competitiveness, I cant imagine what it would feel like to bust your ass year round to get back, after busting your ass for 3 years for the org, only to have it be for a lottery team. The only truly best of both worlds argument would be a Howard trade, where if he leaves you have salary cap relief, if he stays you have the best C int he game. But I just can't imagine the Magic wanting a package of above average, well-paid players in exchange for Howard. They clearly want flexibility, something the Bulls can't really provide. I'd love to hear a legit alternative. But it really just seems like the issue is the bulls didn't sign mayo. But oh well. He doesn't really change the trajectory of the bulls path, anyway. Says the guy that brought up the silly argument about what would have happened if Rose didn't get hurt and Bosh still did. None of us can say with any certainty what deals were really on the table, so it's impossible to know how feasibly some of the plans of attack were. If someone says we should have dealt Deng for a lottery pick, the easy response is "was that trade there?" We can only go on what actually happened, which is virtually nothing. One thing that did seem feasible though would have been getting Mayo, someone that actually could have made a difference when Rose is healthy, instead of splurging on a fading veteran stop-gap at the PG spot. Mayo at least has a chance of making a difference in their championship chase once Rose is healthy, Hinrich won't. You weren't exactly going to get another Kobe with their money, but a young, talented player would have been a much better choice. There may have been other options to add a potential long-term answer (maybe Gerald Green, he went for about $3 mil, is talented, and was good in NJ), I don't totally know what was on the table. Hinrich was pretty clearly a move made to try to tread water when Rose is out though, which shouldn't have been their top priority.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 29, 2012 -> 10:19 PM) Luckily, when we reach the playoffs we'll be a 60 win caliber team. IF they're healthy. That's a pretty big asumption given their best player is out until at least March and their other four starters have all had injury issues in the past.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 28, 2012 -> 12:58 PM) I guess the plan was to jettison Rip by the trade deadline to get under the cap Under the luxury tax. Big difference.

Going off the Alex Morgan talk... A 5-minute You Tube video of smoking hot Olympic athletes. Linked because some of it is NSFW-ish.

Who gives a flying f*** about hypotheticals? Rose really did tear his ACL and won't be his old self for a while, and the Heat still won with Bosh, their only good big man, playing 30 minutes across 11 games and at less than 100% for the rest of the playoffs. Oh, and the Heat have every important player back and added Ray Allen to hit wide open 3's all year. Seriously, the last two years don't matter. They didn't win, now it's time to move on from that and prepare for when Rose is healthy again.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 12:18 PM) Do people here just hold the Bulls to some impossible standard or what? We stayed under the tax and still managed to get to round 3. But somehow that shows how horrible we are and how we aren't committed to winning. Meanwhile, the Lakers spend 90 million and go out in 2 rounds, and somehow that shows how dedicated they are to winning and how we should emulate them. They made round 3 two years ago, their star player tore his ACL, and several other teams are getting better. That awesome playoff run that you keep referring to has about as much meaning to the future of the Bulls as the Magic's run to the finals a few years ago for Orlando.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 12:15 PM) The mighty okc thunder that lost in 5 to the Heat, but are still awesome, as opposed to the Bulls who are worthless and can never win. The Heat were a lot better this year than they were last year, and they keep adding pieces.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 12:10 PM) Here is the problem I have with Stevie's and Ky's argument, the heart of their argument goes like this: We didn't win in the past, so that means we can't win in the future. Isn't that a logical fallacy? imo, the fact that we win the regular season every year shows that we are a disciplined, stable and finely tuned machine. It shows that we ARE contenders. To them, it means nothing. The fact that we made it to round 3 shows that we are very close to winning it all. To them, it means nothing. We didn't win the title so everything we accompli8shed is meaningless. I just don't agree with that all or nothing mentality. So the regular season results and what they did in the playoffs two seasons ago somehow means more than the current state of the team and the league? How is that not a "logical fallacy?"

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 11:59 AM) Wow, they made it to the 2nd round? We made it to the 3rd round the year before last. But when we do it, its meaningless to you. When the Lakers do it, it's justification for spending like a drunken sailor. Big difference between getting OKC in round 2 and getting the Atlanta Hawks.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 11:21 AM) The new Northwestern Unis are pretty tight http://www.nusports.com/sports/m-footbl/sp.../072612aaa.html I'm not a fan personally. They're pretty boring outside of the stripe and they don't have a logo on the actual jerseys. Then again, the recruits are what matters and they all supposedly love anything Under Armour does.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 12:09 PM) Bulls went 18-9 without Rose last year, here's my opinion on what they replaced in the Roseless lineup. Butlers going to be better than Brewer. IMO Bellinelli will be a more complete player than Korver thus making him at the very least equals with KK. I was a CJ fan, I think Hinrich is a SLIGHT drop off. I think Teague will be an upgrade over JL3 Nazr is a drop off defensively but may be an upgrade offensively Rose is going to be back Jan-Mar so he'll have a month or 2 to knock the rust off. Bulls still have the opportunity to make a ton of noise with what they have. There's a big difference between playing 27 games spread out across a shortened season and playing something like 60 straight games without Rose. Everyone has to carry a much bigger load for a much longer stretch, and if someone gets hurt you can't fall back on Rose coming back. It'd take a herculean effort from the other guys to be much better than .500 with Rose out. Then when he's back, you have a 0% chance of beating a quality team in the playoffs if he's not his MVP-caliber self and even if he is they'd still be a toss-up at best against teams like the Heat, Thunder, probably the Lakers (we'll see exactly how that works out) and the Nets if they land Dwight.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 01:15 PM) It depends on whether the Magic want him at that contract. He can be traded in January. The speculation was that the Lopez/Humphries contracts would help them out because Orlando could dump a bunch of their bad contracts in the trade with those two (Richardson, Davis, maybe Nelson or Turkoglu). Kris Kardashian is only on a 2-year deal, so he basically gives them two years of surprisingly solid production while they tank then he's off the payroll.