ZoomSlowik

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 05:01 PM) Does anyone actually know when to expect Rose back? I remember when they were saying a January return. If we destroy the team and he comes back with 30-40 games remaining, the fans will revolt I don't think that's an answer we'll have until much later in the year. They said 8-12 months, so in theory it could be early February, but if he has a setback at some point it could be all season.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 04:50 PM) Anybody who compared him to LeBron should be shot. The hype he got wasn't any higher than any other #1 player in the country. Luol Deng was the consensus #2 player in the country coming out of high school behind LeBron. Basing your belief that he will be better than Deng on his high school hype is unbelievably stupid. Barnes wasn't even #1 on Rivals' final rankings, Josh Selby was.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 04:39 PM) BJ Mullens didnt even start in college...Barnes was the ACC Rookie of the year then averaged 17ppg last year....Big difference I could go on and on with stats that show he's a better prospect then (in a Stephen A Smith voice) B..J... Mullens. Lebron averaged 21-5.5-6 in the league right out of high school and would have gone #1 overall as a high school junior if he were eligible. We're talking about getting Harrison Barnes at #5 in a one-man draft after two years in college. Big difference.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 09:33 AM) Get ready J4L: the officiating sucked last night (again). That 4th foul on Durant was bulls*** and pretty much guaranteed a Heat victory. Thunder up 6-8, playing good defense, momentum changing and then BOOM. A no-call foul puts Durant on the bench for the remainder of the 3rd and the Thunder lost. I'm so tired of the NBA officiating. In one quarter if you breath on someone it's a foul, the next quarter you have to tackle someone to get a foul called. It's absolutely ludicrous. Which was highly exacerbated by Brooks resting Westbrook for like 5 minutes during the same stretch, and two incredibly stupid fouls on guys shooting 3's. The Thunder did it to themselves.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 07:57 AM) I agree that 2-2-1-1-1 would make more sense, but only twice has the home team swept all 3 games since it started in 1985. The road team has done it 3 times. That's why I hate it, unless you can win 3 straight games against a quality opponent (which doesn't happen often), the lower seed has to win two games on the road. And the higher seed gets the last two games at home, which is a huge edge. HATE the 2-3-2 format.

QUOTE (kev211 @ Jun 16, 2012 -> 09:48 PM) Fun little debate my friends and I had. What combination of 12 players today from the United States would have the best chance at knocking off the dream team? We all agreed that the chances would be slim but its still fun to put a team together. The only real debate is your bigs outside of Dwight. Lebron, Durant, Paul, Wade, Kobe, Rose if he's healthy and/or Westbrook are pretty much no-brainers. So that leaves... Love- Fairly safe bet. Good balance for Dwight with his shooting, a ton of rebounding. Aldridge- Another guy to stretch the floor a bit, good length. Bynum- Clearly the second best center when he wants to be, need some size. Chandler- I guess, need a defensive balance to a couple of those guys so he trumps people like Blake, Bosh and Hibbert. For the last spot it's personal preference if you want 3 PG's, another big or a designated shooter (probably Harden). They'd probably get murdered inside and whomever the PG tries to guard is going to dominate (Magic because of his size, MJ because he's MJ). That said, Stockton would have to have some serious tricks to stop those PG's and Bird/Mullin would struggle to guard Lebron/Durant (of course that's what Scottie's for). Early-2000's might actually have a better chance because they had better big men. PG- Kidd, AI SG- Kobe, Pierce, Allen SF- T-Mac, Marion PF- KG, Webber, Ben Wallace C- Shaq, Duncan Pretty thin at PG, but a MUCH better frontcourt and they still have some serious talent on the wings (I even left off Vince Carter because he went through a lull in effort in the 2002-2004 range).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 16, 2012 -> 09:14 PM) The problem there of course is that doing so does not make the Bulls better. It can't get them under the cap far enough to offer a real legit Free Agent deal, and losign him makes the team worse. Right now, yeah. But what about in another year or two when he loses another notch or two on his play or starts getting hurt constantly again? People are already annoyed with Boozer's play and want to see more of Gibson. Right now he still has value to the team, in the not to distant future the damage he does to the payroll is going to far out-pace his value on the court. Look at all of the teams that made it deep in the playoffs, you don't exactly need a deep and amazing frontcourt with a bunch of scoring options anymore.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 16, 2012 -> 01:53 PM) I'm a huge Barnes fan so I'd think about the trade, but Garcia for a year doesnt excite me whatsoever, we already have Kyle Korver to fill it up from downtown for a year. Where's the cap man...Does clearing Deng and Boozer while just taking on the #5 pick give them enough for one of those free agent SGs I keep mentioning?? 2013 would be somethin like... Rose Ellis Barnes Taj Noah Probably, though Harden or Martin are better fits than Ellis. You've already got one volume scorer with Rose, you want someone more efficient than Evans or Ellis to pair with him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 16, 2012 -> 10:31 AM) The obvious problem is that Rose is probably not going to be his old self next year, 2 seasons from now when Rose might be re-approaching his best form, Boozer might well be significantly worse, Deng I dunno...and the Bulls entire bench will be emptying. Hamilton, CJ, Korver, Brewer, and Taj all will hit FA (and that's after Asik hitting FA this year). The Bulls won't be able to rebuild that using the MLE, even if JR pays the luxury tax, unless Butler steps up huge, because he's about the only real "Kid" left on the roster who might get significantly better. If you tried to keep this team together until Rose recovered, you're $10 million+ into luxury tax territory from resigning people and you've got a lot of parts that have gotten older and less effective. Hence the amesty of Boozer part once he's outlived his usefulness. That takes a massive chunk out of the potential luxury tax bill.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 11:24 PM) Just saw a little tidbit on Evans that I liked. The middle of March he started working with the "highly touted" Keith "Shot Doc" Veney, his FG% for March and April was .499 compared to .421 before he started working with a guy called "the shot Doc". So that type of shooting could be for real. Has Pau ever played for a defensive minded coach?? I obviously know Phil was a great coach but he's not the D guru that Thibs is. I think Paus D improves under Thibs. I've seen a few Tmac in his prime, Deng, Alex English, and Glen Rice comparisons for Barnes...In other words hes gonna be good. As far as the bench goes, assuming Asik doesnt go in a Pau trade and Mirotic comes over when it matters, you got Asik, Mirotic, Butler, your MLE, and a rookie/vet minimum. LOL, and on that note, I'm definitely out. Thibs didn't invent defense, and I think Phil had some idea what he was doing the way those Bulls teams defended.

I'll just leave it at this since it's been a back and forth for way too long in this thread... The Bulls were on the short list of teams for the title before Rose got hurt. As long as he's his old self, that's not really going to change. They can keep as many parts of this team as they want with the only real issue being what JR's tolerance level is for the luxury tax. They have a star level PG, a very good frontcourt, a solid albiet not stellar SF, and one of the more productive benches in the league. Most importantly, they play championship level defense. If they break this up, it better be for an elite player that allows them to make a good 5-year run, not for an aging star that was the third best player this year on another contender that fell short. Their core is mostly pretty young and has a lot of basketball left in them. Any picks they get might help, but counting on them to start is highly risky if it costs you someone like Deng or Noah. Those guys aren't stars, but they're not super-easy to replace either. There's a distinct possibility that they'll get worse instead of better.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 10:25 PM) They lose Noahs D, thats about it. Taj starting over Boozer will make up for a lot of that. When Evans was moved to SF the final 2 months of the season he shot 50% from the field. He's a clear upgrade over Rip at SG. Barnes is going to be a future perennial all star IMO. Even in a few years I think Pau can still deliver the kind of numbers Booze has been putting up now. Their interior D gets a fair amount worse. Right now you have three good to great interior defenders with Noah, Gibson and Asik and one bad one that gets hidden fairly well with help D right now. With this roster you have one okay one that's getting older and another one that's very good but taking on a bigger role. The backups will be likely be a huge question mark instead of the very good Gibson/Asik combo. You lose the strong bench that is one of the major strengths of the team. You have a highly suspect shooting team with that lineup, though that's not exactly a strength of the Bulls right now. Rose and Evans is a terrible fit in the backcourt because both of them rely on driving. They're not exactly Lebron and Wade on that front either. And your #2 scorer is going to be 33 when you need him to be producing. Gasol is better than Boozer, but he doesn't produce much more than Boozer's 15-9 right now. You seem to have a very high opinion of Barnes, the consensus is that he's basically Luol Deng 2.0. He doesn't put the ball on the floor very well and relies heavily on his jumper for points, and he's not exactly a Durant-level shooter. So if he pans out as well as most people expect, you're at a push with what they have now. Unless he's Kobe Bryant, that's not a championship caliber team.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 09:46 PM) I think everyone will agree Taj can replace Boozer so theyre replacing all 3. With no room to add a piece they can keep Evans. Rose-Evans-Barnes-Taj-Gasol looks like a championship caliber team to me. Okay, on second thought, that's a little to short. So to summarize, you have... -A 2-guard that has to have the ball that can't shoot. -A SF that may or may not be good. -A PF that's a nice defensive player and a good role player but has a limited offensive game. -A "C" that has a high skill level but plays soft and has disappeared in the last several playoffs. Oh, and he's going to be 33 by the time Rose is healthy. -A non-existant bench because you have no cap room and you had to clear out the roster. How exactly does that add up to a team that can beat the Heat or Thunder?

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 09:42 PM) Reading these last couple of pages I've learned a couple of things...I have no idea what the hell the Bulls need to do to get to the next level and I really do f***ing miss Micheal Jordan/Scottie Pippen. PS, I'm drunk, a bit nostalgic, so f***ing sue me... I mean, they were like a 60-win type team the last two years with Rose healthy, so I'm not seeing a major reason for an overhaul now. Obviously Rose getting healthy is #1. The froncourt is a major strength, though you'll have to amnesty Boozer at some point once he starts sucking (well, worse than now). Basically they need to find the right guy/guys on the wing. Deng works for now, you can try to replace him once his contract expires (should have a little space assuming Boozer has been amnesty'd). Hopefully Mirotic helps, he sounds like a combo forward. Finding an Afflalo-type SG in the draft would go a long way.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 09:06 PM) If Barnes is a bust yes...I think Barnes will be a better scorer than Deng. I already assumed he's as good as Deng when I said that, which is already a fairly big assumption for a draft pick. Think about it, you're essentially replacing 3 of your starters with 2, one of which is a draft pick. 5 years ago Rose/Gasol might have been enough to carry you, but Pau seems to make more of an impact on the stat book than the game now. It's not exactly a Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka caliber top-4 and you don't have the cap space to make significant additions.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 08:42 PM) If Barnes pans out, I think a past his prime Pau, Rose, Barnes, and Taj core would still be pretty good. (If Rose comes back anywhere near his MVP level) Heres where I found the Rose salary numbers. Never heard of the websites but both have the same numbers so I'll assume theyre right. http://www.spotrac.com/nba/chicago-bulls/derrick-rose/ http://www.ultimatenba.com/playerfile/nba/...kRose-1618.html That's a good way to be a 4-seed. Also, those numbers don't remotely add up. He signed a 5 year extension for $94 mil. If you add those 4, you get $69 million. He's not making $25 million in the last year of that deal.

I found the info on Durant's deal, which seems to be basically the same as Rose's. Here's the yearly breakdown (rounded a bit)... year 1- $16.32 mil year 2- $17.55 mil year 3- $18.77 mil year 4- $20 mil year 5- $21.22 mil So for 2013/14, Rose probably counts for $17.55 mil against the cap.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 08:04 PM) The number I keep seeing is 15.5 At the very least the trade would allow some financial flexibility whereas as stated before they are effed money wise in the future That can't possibly be right, he'd be in the second year of a contract extension that averages 18.8 mil a year. Next year might conceivably be $15.5, but for 2013/2014 it'd be higher than that. And it doesn't really improve their flexibility at all. They still don't have any room to make major additions and the team is done as soon as Gasol isn't elite anymore (some would argue he isn't right now).

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 07:19 PM) I figured I was gonna be wrong again somehow....how the hell did Miami get Bosh and James??? They all signed new deals, so they had more flexibility. Pau and Rose are already signed. Pau is going to be making $19 mil in 2013/2014, I don't know the exact number for Rose but it should be at least $18 mil. The Knicks did the same thing, they screwed it up a bit by paying Melo and Amare too much money to fit a 3rd max contract.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 06:57 PM) Noah for Evans and #5 Deng for Pau CJ for 2nd RD DP Amnesty Boozer Draft Barnes at 5 Draft Plumlee in the 2nd When healthy: Rose/Hinrich Evans/Rip Barnes/Butler Taj/Plumlee Pau/Asik I know the Pau at center has been shot down here but I still think with the great help D Taj brings you can survive with Pau out there playing C. If we let Evans walk next year would we have enough cap to sign a guy like Harden, Ellis, Martin, or Curry? Could you imagine any of those in Evans spot in the lineup above??? If Barnes pans out that lineup would be effin scary. We've been through this. Rose+Pau+any other kind of salary (ie Taj and a top-5 pick)=no cap space for a legit free agent signing.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 05:06 PM) Badger what are your thoughts on Miles Plumlee, I know his scoring wasn't there at Duke but he reminds me of a Noahish type player. He's not even the best Plumlee.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 03:03 PM) I'll take some heat for it but in my book Noah is replaceable. With a defensive guru like Thibs as the head coach, if the Bulls get a high energy big man like Noah then Thibs can turn him into a good defender. Offensively Noah gets all his points from working the boards which a high energy big would be doing the same... That said I obviously wouldnt be against trading him. This deal though I'm not to sure about, Evans and Rose are too similar to me, Bulls don't need another slasher they need someone with a good mid-range/ 3 point shot...Like a Rip Hamilton only younger and less fragile. It's not that easy to find an athletic, high energy big that can play center, especially with no cap space or high picks. Noah isn't a complete stiff on offense either, he can catch and finish and is actually a good passer and ball-handler for his size. If it were that easy to find someone like him, the Heat wouldn't be giving major minutes to people like Joel Anthony.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 02:39 PM) I guess in that scenario the Bulls draft a big at 5? Seems kind of perplexing. Yeah, the writer suggested taking Drummond, and Barnes if he's not there. Finding a way to stash Drummond or Perry Jones on the bench and hoping they break out is somewhat intriguing, but without Noah that's a lot harder to do effectively.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 02:32 PM) Any ESPN insiders on the board?? NBA rumors has something about Tyreke Evans to the Bulls. (sorry for posting about the Bulls J4L) Some random writer posted a proposal of Evans and 5 for Noah and 29, no real basis for any rumor. Tyreke Evans would be an AWFUL fit with Rose, he's a horrendous shooter (something like a 29% conversion rate outside of 3 feet) and needs the ball in his hands.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 15, 2012 -> 02:06 PM) Unfortunately basketball is the one sport where I feel refs can really impact the game and it does make a difference. Compare it to football/baseball, where I probably never comment about the refs, although I probably was pissed with the last play of the Rose Bowl, but thats because the guy behind Wilson ran the clock before the whistle blew. The point is, I dont go out of my way to complain about refs, I comment on them when I think its warranted. It's a personal thing. For me to complain about the refs, it has to be pretty egregious. Not quite at the Lakers/Blazers, Lakers/Kings or Dallas/Miami (06) level, but several blatantly incorrect calls that favor one team or one or two late ones that everyone can see is wrong and has a serious impact on the game (the most recent one I can think of is Rondo getting hit in the head by Wade). Not too many games hit my standard of griping, I expect a few bad calls here and there because no ref is perfect and especially in basketball nearly every play involves some kind of subjective call.