ZoomSlowik

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:40 PM) Sounds like Michael Beasley a bit. I would say he's more like Kevin Love.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:35 PM) If i'm the Cavs i try to cash in on picks for Williams and Jamison. Next years draft is deep enough that you can buld a decent mid-2000 Bulls-esque core and let that team grow together. It doesn't look like THAT good a draft. Granted it's hard to say how good all of the freshmen are, but pretty much everyone that could have left early this year left. Look at the early projections, the top-20 is almost entirely freshmen, foreigners, and guys that weren't that amazing last year like Henson and Plumlee.

QUOTE (RME JICO @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:30 PM) Winshares had the trio at 41.1 wins for last season. That means the remaining roster has to make up 30+ wins, no way. Since the regular season is a complete joke, they will get 60 wins, but 72, I doubt it. Wade and Bosh would have to stay healthy and play in at least 80 to do that, and I doubt that happens. They will definitely be a top 3 team in the East, but I don't see them ever achieving 70+ wins. Hollinger had them at 61 with ten replacement level players and the trio playing 36, 36 and 32 MPG. If they get ANYONE that can put up a PER above 10, that would suggest they might get close. However, it's far from a lock and the playoffs are another story.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:16 PM) You know...if this puts any sort of dent in NBA marketing/revenue next year, or in pre-2011 season ticket sales...this just may have made ending the lockout even harder. It could be a long one, especially since the owners aren't exactly helping the "we're poor" argument when they're giving out all of these obscene contracts.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:13 PM) Yep, i think this is the future of the NBA. This is going to keep happening until somebody puts a stop to it. It's going to be a while before you see a free agent class this good again, that was a HUGE factor in making it possible. Yao Ming, AKA Mr. Glass, is the second best free agent next year by a wide margin.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 09:37 PM) You are right Zoom, I think he's in the 30-35 range like this article states. http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/slamo...mar-odom-no-33/ But once you get past about 18-20 guys, a list becomes very tough to put together. Wow, that list is strange. Ahead of guys like Allen, Lewis and Aldridge? He's easily the 4th best player on his team and I have a very hard time seeing him be the second best player on a 50-win team like those other guys I just mentioned.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 09:36 PM) without having any clue what the other 9 members of that roster is going to look like a very good argument could be made that the Bulls and even the Nets were a better fit. They have to meld, none of them could get hurt for an extended period of time, if Wade doesn't change his style he doesn't have years and years left.... look, are they a very good team with those three? Obviously they are, but in no way are they some freight train that is going to run the east much less the West IMO, That Thunder team has a chance to be some bad ass mo-fos really soon The Bulls okay, but the Nets won 12 games last year. That roster is two deep and Devin Harris is injury prone. People also seem awfully quick to crown OKC as well considering 7 teams in the west had a better record than them and their starting center is Serge Ibaka right now...

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 09:30 PM) Well, one thing I was right about was that the Bulls should have done Noah in the S&T, as these 3 were playing together somewhere. They'd have had to dump Deng somewhere too, which we apparently haven't found a taker for.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 09:06 PM) Lamar Odom. Career 15, 9, and 4 guy that can defend, distribute, and score when needed. He's still not close to top-25. Hell, I can't think of a single team where he would be their best player (maybe the now craptastic Cavaliers), so that's at least 30.

QUOTE (beckham15 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 09:04 PM) whats people thought about working another trade with the wizards for gilbert arenas? Absolutely not, last thing they need is someone to fight Rose for the ball and play zero defense. That's also the worst contract in the league (yes, worse than Joe Johnson).

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:47 PM) This is not going to give Miami championships, it just makes them a strong contender. The Lakers still have two top 10 guys and arguably 4 top 25 guys in the NBA. The Bulls have a loaded roster, as do the Thunder etc. Nothing is given. Believing so is silly and foolish. 4? Who's the other one? Bynum is already a stretch for the top-25, I have no idea who the other one is. Artest? Odom?

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:45 PM) I actually really like Zoom's idea of trading for Rip Hamilton actually. No he's not the ideal 3 point sniper, but basically a 2 point version of Ray Allen who comes off screens and back screens and shoots at an efficient rate. Add defense to the equation and you got a good player to pair with Rose and sign a sniper for the bench that a team can't match his RFA rights (in other words.. overpay a bit) like Morrow or Redick. I think the Bulls should really look into this. Ha, that was yesterday I think. It was also on the assumption that Lebron would be playing SF, kind of moot to trade one mid-range shooter for another.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 07:06 PM) Im amazed people would hand the Heat the east before they see the final roster. Granted they dont have much time left but the Celtics are a very good team and they actually would match up with Miami very tightly. The Heat still dont have a big body and Bosh wont be able to handle KG at the 4. Boston plays great d also and have an emerging star in Rondo. It seems great on paper now but you are playing with fire banking on 3 players to win you games on their own for an entire season. It takes one injury to devastate that team. I agree with you to an extent, but I think the bigger issue is who guards Rondo. Perkins stinks on offense and Garnett might be on one leg by the end of next season. He's also been more of a jump-shooter for a while now.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 06:55 PM) And the key thing in your post there is blowouts. I don't see how this team can't win 65 games minimum with Lebron on their team, considering that's what he's done in Cleveland with a weak supporting cast. 65 might be A LITTLE much, especially before we know who is their starting center. They need SOMEONE with some size as Bosh at center is less than ideal.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 06:50 PM) Well consider the other guys on that team such as Kobe etc. Those 3, should average around 25PPG as a minimum (except for maybe Bosh) if they all ended up with Miami. I would guess their averages are going to be lower than we think because they'd probably rest a lot during blowouts. The most recent example is the Celtics, where their big three combined for 105 minutes and 56 points. The Celtics had a few competent backups, so if I had to guess, I would put it at 110 minutes combined and 65-70 points.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 05:25 PM) The raptors felt the same way you did, and end up finishing last in the league in defense. If you have a big who can't defend, you are forced have another good defensive big man, which the raptors didn't. If they had a better than defensive PF, and put bosh at SF instead of turk, they may fare a lot better on defense, while virtually still getting the same production from bosh. I agree Bosh is a better PF than Deng. He is more talented thus makes more money. And lastly, I am gladly you felt the same way I did that Bosh is not a traditional big man and is more of a traditional small forward than anything. Okay I lied. Bosh at PF isn't their main defensive problem, it's Andrea Bargnani at center. HE is a small forward. I don't know why you have this thought in your head that anyone would be better off by moving their best rebounder and interior scorer farther away from the basket.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 04:58 PM) there is a new breed of combo forwards nowadays, and bosh is one of them, he can play the big man, but he is really a small forward. you listing all those stats is nice, but he is putting up those big man stats i.e. good rebounding and close shots %, only because he plays the power forward. There is no denying that he also have the attributes of a small forward (ie midrange game, range out to 3, good slasher, no strength, not a good post defender), and his "little man skills" are better than his big man skills, which really makes him a combo forward playing the 4. Hell, if you throw luol deng at the 4, he could get your 18 and 9 easily, while shooting lot of close shots. He is a versatile player, i'll give you that, but he really fits the bill of a small forward more than a big man, just because he is playing PF and is putting up numbers like a big man, doesn't mean he is a traditional big man. Last post on this... Bosh is WAY better at the power forward spot than Deng. Vinny played Deng at the 4 a fair amount, and it didn't go so well. Bosh is not a great defender, but you can do a lot worse than 10 boards and a block from your PF spot, and it's not just because he plays at the 4. I don't really care if he's a "traditional power forward" since those barely exist anymore. He's plenty effective in that role.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 04:15 PM) dirk is a traditional European player, he is white, he doesn't have the athleticism, i have nothing to say to that. Garnett plays like a small forward on offense, but is an excellent defensive big man, while bosh does neither. there is no point of going further here. just make a list to yourself the attributes of a big man, and the attributes of a small forward, and ask yourself if bosh's attribute fits a small forward more than a big man. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the guy averaging 20-9 on his career while shooting 49% from the floor is a big man. How many small forwards that aren't named Larry Bird or Elgin Baylor have ever put up a line like that? Maybe a few other combo forwards like Marion or Wallace, but they both play/played inside a lot. He doesn't shoot 3's, he doesn't defend perimeter players (and probably shouldn't outside of a switch on a pick and roll), he starts his drives from the high post (not at the top of the arc or on the wings like a perimeter player), well over 40% of his attempts come in the basket area, which you can only say about like 4 perimeter players (all of which have no shooting ability), and he draws 8 FT's a game which is generally reserved for big men or really, really good penetrators (which he's not). About the only thing in the small forward column is that he's a decent ball-handler for his size and he can shoot mid-range jumpers, but you can say that about a lot of big men. Your team is in deep s*** if he's your starting SF, but he's one of the top-10 big men in the league at PF.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 04:00 PM) charles barkley and elton brand says hi. players will be less effective on the post IF they are shorter, but bosh has the size, but still isn't great at the post, and plays like a small forward. He is a oversized small forward. Just sayin... You are being quite ridiculous. No small forward gets 46% of their shots in the basket area, not even Lebron. If you want to argue that an elite power forward in recent years plays more like a SF, it's clearly Dirk or Garnett since neither of them have been over 30% in the basket area in recent years. You're basically trying to penalize him for being a more versatile offensive player.

QUOTE (Chi Town Sox @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 03:43 PM) What is Charles Barkley was 6'1 instead of 6'4? He'd have been worse than he was, which is what I said. Does that mean that Shaq would have been s***ty if he were 6'11"? No, but for those guys in the 6'8"-6'10" range it would be a pretty major blow.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 03:39 PM) Maybe because Paul Millisap is probably better, who knows. But hell, a stat like that is +/- in hockey. I don't know if that tells anywhere near the whole story. I don't think it's the be-all-and-end-all, just wanted to be a pain in the ass. I think it tells you that they don't lose much when Millsap is in instead of Boozer, though it's a bit mis-leading because he's going up against the other team's starters most of the game.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 03:35 PM) Is it really that hard to comprehend? If he wasn't 6'10, he is a pure small forward BECAUSE he doesn't have the skills sets of a traditional big man. If Shaq wasn't 7'1 and 300lb, he still is a great low post scorer, knows how to use his strength, and got a highly accurate hook shots. if bosh is 6'8 weighs 230, plays like the way he is, he would something similar to luol deng. Other players have the size and skillsets, bosh only has the height, not the weight nor skillsets. you sure do know your stats man, but if you watched his game, he is also a better slasher than most big man in the league. He got most of his 46% inside shots from layups, drives to baskets. He can play the post, but just isn't very good at it. It's stupid because NO big man would be as effective down low if you subtracted several inches from their height. So Bosh gets penalized because he can hit jumpers and handle the ball a bit? He's still WAY more dangerous down low than any small forward not named Lebron, and he rebounds just fine for the position. He's a power forward all the way.

Food for thought: the Jazz were 2.3 points per 100 possessions WORSE this year when Boozer was on the floor than when he was on the bench.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) I don't see how how that is any different. He doesn't try cause he doesn't want to do it. Now he's going back to D'Antoni's system and you know he won't be doing it for the rest of his career. Add in micro-fracture knee surgery and a busted eye on top of this not to mention has more mileage on his body. Admittedly they get roughly the same results, but I'd rather take the outside chance that someone lights a fire under his ass for 20 games or so in the playoffs than a guy I know is a bit limited athletically. Boozer has missed 138 games in his six years in Utah, he's not exactly durable either. Boozer's actually probably got a little more mileage on his legs, Amare has only played 6 more NBA games and didn't play any in college.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 03:11 PM) KG looks like a paper man, but he can defend, block shots, and rebound as well as anyone in the league in his haydays. Sheed is very good low post defender, block shots and good strength. Amare is stronger than bosh, more athletic, and got 20lbs on him. Bosh can't defend the post, can't block shots, doesn't have the strength, nor is he a gifted low post scorer. He is 6'10 and weight 230lbs, he plays on the perimeter and shoots a lot of midrange jumpers. Yes, he would be a small forward if he wasn't 6'10 LOL, that is one of the dumber things I've seen. Shaq wouldn't be a center if he weren't 7'1" 300 pounds either! KG and Sheed are definitely better defenders and rebounders, that doesn't mean that they still don't have a very thin build. Amare is bigger, but plays very soft up front and isn't a good rebounder. None of the power forwards in this class can defend the post or block shots. Lee, Boozer, Amare and Bosh are all below-average defenders. As for the comment that he doesn't play down low, that's just crap. 46% of his shots came in the basket area and he converted over 60% of them. He does just fine down low.