Kalapse

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:35 PM) his stats from last yr werent that bad, i wonder why they want to dump him so bad, must be a money issue He's difficult in the clubhouse and is quite overpaid.

QUOTE (b-Rye @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:31 PM) I'm just saying he's a good leadoff man that will make things happen. He's outperformed the '05 Pods his whole career and we won a world series with pods that year. He will make things happen and that will help the 2,3,4,5 hitters... Scott Podsednik was on base 35% of the time in '05, the chances of Juan Pierre approaching that are very, very poor based on his performance over the past 4 seasons. What would help the middle of the lineup the most would be seeing Juan Pierre on base an awful lot next year, unfortunately that's not all that likely.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:24 PM) no,im saying that its not necessary for a leadoff guy to have a high walk total. ill take sizemore as my leadoff guy anyday and he walked 60 times only . even with his .248 avg 60 times in 436 AB, that's a 12.1% walk rate. League average is 9.1%. Grady Sizemore draws an incredible number of walks.

QUOTE (b-Rye @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:18 PM) Juan Pierre VS Jose Reyes (MLBS best leadoff man)... I'm going to use Pierres stats in 07 where he had his last full year and Reyes stats from 08 on his last full season. PIERRE REYES AVG .293 .297 Runs 96 113 RBI 41 68 2B 24 37 3B 8 19 SB 64/15 56/15 BB 33 66 SO 37 82 OBP .331 .358 SAC B 20 5 FLD % .987 .974 Reyes is clearly the better, but not by much. I'm tired of people whining about this... the Sox are paying 3mil for a legit leadoff hitter who can hit .300 and swipe 60 bases.... Wow, just wow. So the 25 points of OBP, .100 points of ISO, Reyes' 2 seasons with an OPS in the mid .800's (how many players have his speed and XBH combo?) and the fact that he's only 27 and still played to his full potential means next to nothing? The FLD% was a cute touch, Pierre's a good LF with the worst arm in the game and Reyes is an above average defensive SS, another huge plus in Reyes' corner. So in your world .283/.331/.353/.685 and a .317 wOBA is roughly the same as a .279/.358/.475/.833, .366 wOBA season? Holy crap. In 2008 Reyes was worth 26.1 runs above average. Pierre in 2007? -6.7

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:11 PM) im not trying to compare the 2, but ichiro walked only 32 times last yr. ur leadoff hitter doesnt have to walk. and he had a .386 obp without the walks. nice if he could but not necessary. You are absolutely right. If Juan Pierre hits .350 next year his lack of walks will not be an issue.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:47 PM) Well, I don't feel like reading 28 pages soooo... The Sox wanted Pierre for years. The Sox got Pierre. They got him for 2/8mil. Not bad at all. So, he doesn't walk a lot and he has a noodle for an arm. I'm sure there are numerous comparisons between Pierre and Pods. Here's the difference...Pierre knows how to run the bases correctly. He's not going to get picked off nearly as much. And he's better in the outfield, even if his arm is noodle-y. I think it's an above average deal. Not fantastic, but workable and great for the money. He's in the bottom 9% of all qualified hitters in BB% over the past 3 seasons. Isn't that kind of a big deal for the guy who will get the most PA on your team and hit in front of RBI men? When you're looking for a leadoff hitter the first thing you look for is a high walk rate and to go along with that; a guy who can take some pitches and work the count, not only does Pierre not do either well, he's very bad at each.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 08:46 PM) Well we finally have our leadoff hitter, albeit it is a player in Pierre who does have a lot of downside to his game and that noodle arm of his in CF. To my annoyance, we're now paying Rios $12M a season to play in a corner OF spot when he'll probably put up a .750 OPS. Sure he'll give you great defense there, but that's vastly overpaying, and we're stuck with him for a few seasons at least. If the Sox target a DH, maybe they'll go after someone who mashes lefties, and have Flowers take the vast majority of PA's against RHP's as the DH. Pierre is going to play left, Rios will remain in center.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 07:22 PM) You could be onto something, esp. as Hanley starts getting very expensive after this year. Now, would a deal for Hanley around Quentin and Alexei be considered by the Marlins? Would the sox? Um, no? If the Marlins made Hanely Ramirez available we wouldn't have a shot in hell. There are teams out there that would offer greater quantity and quality than we could even dream of.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 07:28 PM) I was just pointing out that your attempt to make the poster look stupid by using total outs was fairly irrelevant as well. What I was getting at, is that it does absolutely NOTHING to compare players we got for very little to players that are perennial all-stars. I wasn't comparing anyone, I was just naming the players that finished ahead of him in PA since you assumed Pierre was #1. And I wasn't trying to make anyone look stupid. I resent that accusation.

Given that he's probably not going to get a lot in terms of guaranteed money Orlando Hudson would have been an interesting option if he were willing to play the OF, I know he shot down the idea of playing CF full time last offseason but who knows what his mindset is a year later?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 06:55 PM) Well, put me down for acquiring Rollins, Suzuki, or Sizemore for 2 minor prospects and $8 million over two years then! I was just pointing out how irrelevant it is that he led the league in hits. I'm also not entirely sure what this you're getting at with this post.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 06:43 PM) This one actually wouldn't be all that surprising. Brian Giles is another one of Kenny's long-time favorites. Kenny would get a kick out of those two battling each other for his affections. I wish Brian Giles weren't toast, otherwise he might have been an interesting option for the leadoff spot.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 06:43 PM) I'm assuming he led the league in PA's too then. Odds are, if you do that, you're going to be pretty close to leading the league in outs no matter who you are... He was 4th in PA; Rollins, Suzuki and Sizemore all finished ahead of him. Rollins and Suzuki accounted for about 50 less outs that year, Rollins only 7 less but that's what happens when you put up a mediocre OBP.

QUOTE (SockMe @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 06:32 PM) love this deal. we get a leadoff man and a guy that led the league in hits a few years back. Very good on the base paths too. He also led the league in outs.

QUOTE (Sox72 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 06:09 PM) I mean, I guess I'd have to seriously consider it even though it leaves a GAPING hole on our bench (backup infielder). Well then you can just sign Orlando Hudson or Orlando Cabrera to be the backup infielder.

QUOTE (Sox72 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 06:05 PM) I dont think the Rays would do that. They already have their closer in Soriano. What if we threw in Linebrink and paid $250K of his salary in both '10 and '11? I'm willing to include Omar Vizquel or even Brent Lillibridge if it means getting a deal done.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 06:03 PM) They may not have signed him if his roster spot was taken by Matsui, however. Regardless of the money, you don't sign a guy unless he might actually get to play. And when you argue that they could have signed him anyways and invited him to ST, I'll say that he probably would not have signed here if it did not appear as though he would have any chance to get AB's. Anyone you would have signed for the DH spot would have been locked up after Jones, at which point he has no choice.

QUOTE (lakervin @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 05:57 PM) nice addition,a real center fielder good work kenney 1.) He's not a centerfielder and 2.) he's not going to play centerfield

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 05:53 PM) Well, you take Godzilla, and I'll take Jones/Pierre/Putz. Andruw Jones is guaranteed $100K over the minimum, his name shouldn't even be mentioned in these discussions. No potential trade or signing was going to keep them from signing Jones to a $500K contract, they were likely to pay Josh Fields close to that if they had brought him back as a bench player in 2010.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 03:25 PM) I wouldnt be upset. Quentin had one good year and was NEVER the same after the wrist injury. Remember, he was bad before he got hurt this past season. Quentin put up a .960 OPS in April, in no world is that 'bad'.

QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 02:33 PM) Adrian Gonzalez!!!! Please no Adam Dunn. Love the HRs, but I can't stand strikeouts. Is his K rate higher than Thome???? That's funny. Adrian Gonzalez struck out 142 times in 2008.

QUOTE (b-Rye @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 05:33 PM) You guys are freaking out about KWs comments on the rotating DH... he's not gonna go out and say "I'm about to trade some more prospects for a bat" or I'm trying to sign (JD, THOME, VLAD, ETC) to fill the DH. Trust me Vizquel will never start a game at DH, if he does Ozzie has officially went nuts or wants to lose and get fired. I'm sure he wants Jones and Kotsay getting ABs but CQ, PK, Pierre, Rios will get days off and I imagine (as history shows) one will get injured or a may have a major slump... also both are dangerous pinch hitters and give us a deep, veteran bench. Vizquel will be used as a late inning defensive replacement for Ramirez/Teahen and get a few starts here and there. If Ozzie hadn't been floating the idea since mid-September this would be a non-issue but the fact of the matter is; this isn't something new, this is something that the manager of the team, a man who's been in love with Juan Pierre for 7 years truly wants and who's to say Ozzie doesn't get what he wants in the end?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 05:24 PM) No? He's been injured 3 of the past 4 years. Thome has more 260 more PA's over the past 4 years than Matsui. They're both .850 OPS players at this stage in their careers. One has been here for the last four years and wants to remain here, for half the price of the other. I'll take him. 2 of the past 4. Tweaking his hamstring and being put on the DL for 13 games as a precautionary measure doesn't count as an injury.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 05:15 PM) I'm talking about the center field part. You're going to honestly tell me that Pierre can't put up the same numbers OCab did? I only brought up CF because Pierre really can't play the position, you can find players off the scrapheap who won't kill you out there that will also put up a mediocre OBP like Pierre, AKA Jerry Owens ala 2007. All I'm asking for is around 20 non-awful games in CF from the leadoffman starting in LF, I don't think Pierre can give you that. I didn't mean a damn thing by it, we have a starting CF in Rios but Ozzie's still going to put the speedy LF in center every now and then and I hate the idea of Pierre ever playing center. No, I don't think Pierre will put up a .340+ OBP. Why the hell should I?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 05:01 PM) Oh, because I thought we've been trying to do that for 4 years now, Kal. Last I checked, it hasn't worked out. In fact it hasn't worked out so much that we brought back Scott Podsednik and he was probably the mvp of the damn offense last year, unfortunately. I know you don't care for how this team is coming together, but I also think you're being a bit unrealistic. In 2007 when Podsednik went down the Sox plugged Darin Erstad and Jerry Owens into the leadoff spot. They both put up a .325 OBP, Erstad hit .284 and Jerry Owens stole 32 bases. In 2008 the Sox get creative and put Nick Swisher in the leadoff spot and he manages a .354 OBP, unfortunately his .210 AVG led to his dismissal from the position. So the Sox plug another un-prototypical leadoff man into the role and get a .293 AVG and .341 OBP from Orlando Cabrera. In 2009 the Sox stick an untalented old dude with a sub .300 career minor league OBP in the leadoff role and he f***ing blows (shocking) so they sign some dude with a little talent for the minimum and he puts up a .350+ OBP. You don't have to waste money on Pierre to get a s***ty OBP out of your leadoff spot.