Kalapse

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 05:00 PM) Bottom line, the above scenario would be a f***ing joke and it better not happen. I don't expect that it will and I really hope all of this talk is the club playing coy. I am scared that Ozzie might actually think that it would be a good idea to use those guys as your DH. The annoything thing is that Ozzie has been stating his desire to go with a rotating DH since mid-september, this isn't something started by Williams in recent days as a negotiating tactic, this appears to be something that the manager truly desires.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 04:57 PM) Then compare him to other bench players, not regulars. If he's going to be getting significant time at DH and OF then he's not a bench player and in the 3 seasons he's been healthy enough to manage starter level PA he's put up s*** numbers.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 04:52 PM) Even if that were to happen, would you rather go out and sign Vlad or Matsui and not have the flexibility we have now with Jones/Pierre/Vizquel and Putz? Because signing one of the few players available would have meant none of these other moves. How about not wasting $8M on Pierre and instead finding someone off the scrapheap that can put up a ~.330 OBP for the minimum and play a little CF, they're out there. I'll gladly take a DH that can put up a decent OPS if it means no Kotsay or Andruw Jones, this is the AL you don't use your bench all that often and neither player has much flexibility anyway. I don't really give a s*** about either. And if Vizquel is going to be getting 250+ PA including time at DH I'm disappointed they signed him as well.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 04:50 PM) I don't think Kotsay is any answer, but he's also been coming off the bench and/or been struggling with injuries. And granted, that will be his role here, but I don't think it's fair to look at his production as if it's production that has been a result of everyday at bats. That kind of makes my point. I also refuse to use injuries as an excuse for poor production. And besides; he's gotten 430+ PA in 3 of the last 5 seasons.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 04:41 PM) They'll sign Thome before they go with Kotsay at DH. Jesus Christ. Kenny's the one that's floating the idea of a rotating DH which is sure to be Kotsay and Jones heavy.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 04:36 PM) What's Kotsay going to produce? Even if he overachieves, you're looking at probably .275 and 15 homers. Not exactly a lot of thump from your DH. Kotsay hasn't put up a wOBA north of .321 since 2004 and just as a frame of reference: AJ put up a .326 last season, Rowand a .323 and Mark Teahen a .323 so that's about what you're getting with a .325 and Kotsay couldn't even muster that level of production.

QUOTE (monomach @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 04:28 PM) Why have the Sox always been obsessed with leadoff hitters who can't get on base? I'm sure this is an Ozzie thing. He loves bad hitters with speed who make outs by getting caught stealing. ...and before someone brings up Pierre's .365 obp last year, you know it's just as much a fluke as Podsednik's 2009. Give me the leadoff hitter Boston was using for a while in 06/07: a Kevin Youkilis type. I want the underrated guy with doubles power and a super high walk total over a weak slap hitter who hits a bunch of ground balls and makes outs on the basepaths without drawing walks. What about his 2009 seems like a fluke to you? Is it his .374/.438/.496/.935 line in his first 147 PA and .273/.326/.337/.663 in his final 278?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 04:24 PM) It's the American League, since when is the bench really that important? I would have rather the 3.5 million we used on Kotsay/Jones/Vizquel gone towards getting a DH if the money is really that tight. When your manager has a National League mentality? (how many times have you heard Ozzie described in this manner?) When you don't plan on acquiring a 'true dh' and instead will play said bench players everyday in lieu of a 'true dh'?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 04:13 PM) Just because Ozzie is doesn't mean Kenny or anyone else is. The DH position is a mess at this point. The Juan Pierre acquisition feels like 90% Ozzie, he's been pining for him since he became a manager. Ozzie having a say in personnel decisions is f***ing frightening.

QUOTE (striker @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 04:06 PM) Not sure if this was posted yet: http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/archives/...erre_trade.html KW: Oh terrific, we're building a National League ballclub. It's been 5 years since the Sox got anything under an .800 OPS out of the DH position, we're sure to break the trend if Ozzie has his way .730, perhaps? People realize Omar Vizquel can't hit at all and aside from that tiny sample size with the Sox last season Mark Kotsay hasn't ht a lick since 2004, right?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 03:49 PM) Keyword. I would gladly pay him incentives and a vesting option that raised his salary to $8M over 2 years, it means he stayed healthy enough to reach those incentives.

One thing you'll notice watching Pierre play at home; our park is not suited for him one bit. The ball tends to hang up in the air due to the odd wind currents and there isn't a lot of room in the outfield unlike the 3 stadiums he's played in for the majority of his career so a lot of those shanks that would normally drop in front of an outfielder or the ball lofted into the gap that just gets down between the 2 defenders won't be happening nearly as often in the 81 games he'll play at the Cell. It's going to be hard for him to pick up many extra base hits or cheap singles at the Cell and since he's not really capable of driving the ball far enough to get it out of the normally easy-to-homer-in Cell he won't be able to take advantage of that either, our home ballpark really isn't built for his style of play.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 03:04 PM) Good deal then. That's about what you would have had to pay Crisp, except Pierre isn't much of a health risk. Yes and Hideki Matsui will get $10M a year. There's no way Crisp gets $8M guaranteed.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 12:03 PM) He had an awful June and a pretty horrendous September (as did a lot of the Dodgers). But he also had a strong April, a tremendous May, and a good August. And as a full time starter, he basically had one great month and one terrible month. All in all, it was a solid, but not great season. And while Pierre doesn't hit doubles, he can turn singles into doubles with his feet. He's not the stealer he once was, but he's still pretty good and will likely run a lot more in Chicago than he did in LA. I'd expect hope the Sox can get something similar to his 2007 season, with maybe a bit better OBP (but I'm being greedy and unrealistic there). Yes, they are mediocre numbers, but when you add in the stolen base numbers, it is acceptable at 4M a season. A single and a stolen base is not the same thing as a double, I hate it when people make them out to be equal. In '07 he put up a .331 OBP (that's 20 points below the league average for an AL leadoff man last season) and had 32 XBH, the stolen bases are fun and all but they're not making up for those tremendous shortcommings. I just can't wait to see that arm in LF and way too often in center, you can run on popup just over the thirdbaseman's head.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:48 AM) I don't really care what his ISO will be at the top of the order. I care about the things he can do. Is he perfect, absolutely not. Ideal, no, but for the amount the Sox are paying him this is a solid move. Last season he was much much better than he had been the last couple of years and he did make some minor changes to his swing mechanics and approach and they apparently paid off big. The stat outlook on these type of guys are always much much more negative than the reality. He isn't an all star, nor is he one of the 10 or 15 best leadoff hitters, but he's adequate, and will be one of the few guys on the squad capable of hitting for a high average, which is a nice change. There are a lot of things Juan can do that won't show up on the stat sheet. You should care about his ISO, just completely writing off extra base hits from the top is just ridiculous. A double from your leadoff man can go a long way. What happened in June? He put up a 1.000+ OPS in the first two months then fell off greatly in June, lost his starting job when Manny came back and put up his usual bad numbers as a part time player the rest of the way. I'm sure he will put up a decent average and because of that and his "intangibles" (like his league worst arm) he'll garner quite a bit of love from the fan base, driving me insane.

QUOTE (hogan873 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) So, I just looked up Pierre's career stats. After looking at them and pondering, scratching my head, and drinking some root beer, I can't really see why we would want Pods over him...especially for the money. A career .301 hitter (yeah, yeah, I know NL vs. AL), 450+ stolen bases, and decent fielding stats. I'll take him over Pods for sure. Prior to last season it had been 5 years since he had last come within 15 points of his career OBP, his career numbers are moot at this point. He's not even close to the same hitter he was in the middle part of the decade when he was putting up OBPs north of .360, making up for the terrible OBP and slugging numbers he's been putting up in the 2nd half of the decade. There are plent of early to mid 30 year old hitters with good to terrific career numbers that you would want no where near your team.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) this could be the end of the offseason for kw and if it is id like to see 1. Pierre LF 2. Becks 2b 25HR 3. Rios CF 25HR 4. CQ RF/DH 30HR 5. Kong 1B 30HR 6. AJP C 10HR 7. Jones RF/DH 25HR 8. Teahan 3B 20HR 9. Ramirez SS 20HR get 15 homers from the bench and you got your 200 homers to go along with a pretty good staff Those are the most generous projections I have ever seen. You're at minimum 35 HR too high.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:30 AM) I don't necessarily think he'll put up the numbers he did last year over a full season, but if he did, it would be an absolutely stellar move. I would hope we could get a .345-.350 OBP out of him, but that is probably me being greedy. We will get a great base-runner who will hit for an average (albeit with mainly singles), but that can be a nice thing. More importantly, the club can at least shield Beckham from the leadoff spot. Pierre might not be great, but plenty of teams have won with him at the top of the order. For the money and given the Sox options, I'm okay with this deal. .329 and a .688 OPS in the 4 seasons leading up to his 2 good months last year. There's really no reason for me to believe we'll get anything better than a .325-.330 OBP out of him which is especially dreadful since his ISO will be well under .100. It's a stupid f***ing trade and a tremendous waste of money. Plenty of teams have won with Juan Pierre at the top? Really? He's been on one team that made the playoffs with him as their leadoff hitter for a full season and that was '03 when he was 25. He has a grand total of 7 playoff PA since 2003.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 05:27 PM) Oh yeah?? With that line up? Here's your 2010 ALDS breakdown: Yes, with that lineup. Mediocre offenses win playoff games every year. Such a lineup would certainly not be ideal and I wouldn't be pleased with it but it's not like that offense doesn't have a good amount of upside.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 05:15 PM) This is what I've been saying all along. 88 wins and first round exit, here we come! If this team gets into the playoffs they have a damn good shot at winning it all, I don't give a s*** how man games we win, if the pitching holds up and we get into the playoffs I'll be pleased. This isn't the NBA we're talking about, if you're one of the 8 teams lucky enough to still be playing baseball in mid-October you have a shot at making a run especially if the top of your starting rotation is especially strong.

Brad Lidge is guaranteed $24.5M over the next 2 season and Bobby Jenks only $7.5M-$8M. How do you make that at all palatable? I'm taking my chances with Jenks.

QUOTE (chisox2334 @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 04:41 PM) vlad isnt coming to southside folks. ozzie wants dh that can play the field and he dosent fit the description. sorry Then they're going to have an awful DH.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 04:34 PM) I know you'd disagree with me, but if the Dodgers picked up most of his salary he wouldn't be that bad of a move. I realize you can't stand Pierre and that stats point him out as pretty worthless and I'd agree with a lot of it, but given the Sox needs they could do a lot worse than giving up nothing for Pierre (if they could get him like that) and pay him maybe 3-4M a season. He had a very good season last year, but the big thing that kills Juan is that he just doesn't get on base at a high enough clip, nor is he a good defensive player. He's a little bit better, more consistnet version of Pods, and if the Sox get a solid DH that would be enough, but again, I'd think you could make a case that Crisp would again be the better get. That said, Pierre isn't coming off a serious injury (see Crisp) nor does he have the injury riddled past of a Pods. But he is coming off 4 awful seasons in the NL -- .329 OBP and .688 OPS, fun -- and put up a .263/.317/.324/.641 over his final ~300 plate appearances last year. I'm not willing to give up a player and pay $6M-$8M over 2 years on a bad baseball player just because he's fast and hits singles.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 04:20 PM) He said something about the White Sox having interest in him and how he thinks that Pierre is BAD with no arm and a little speed. He was blabbering about how Pierre was bad before he came to the Cubs and how he had 2 good weeks last year when Man Ram was suspended. Bernsie is a tool. Well, aside from the whole '2 week' thing he's right.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 04:15 PM) Did you count the innings when Lee was in the minors in the middle of his career? 850 - 48 = 802 Doesn't make much of a dent.