Kalapse

One of the earliest big time offseason trades you're ever going to see: November 25, 2005: Jim Thome traded by the Philadelphia Phillies with cash to the Chicago White Sox for a player to be named later, Daniel Haigwood (minors) and Aaron Rowand. The Chicago White Sox sent Gio Gonzalez (December 8, 2005) to the Philadelphia Phillies to complete the trade. Today's date: November 23rd. December 1st is the arbitration deadline, Dec. 7-10th is the Winter Meetings, Dec. 12th is the non-tender deadline (this is when you'll start to see some deals get done). I mean, at least give it a few weeks.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 01:26 PM) I would think if people were honest with themselves, they're upset about this less b/c it's Vizquel but more because our initial free agent splash isnt a big one. Were this an additional move announced in conjunction with a trade for Adrian Gonzalez for spects, i'm sure everyone would be loving it. Like Orlando Pace being a great signing right after the Cutler trade. Had Pace been the only move of the offseason...i wonder what the response wouldve been. Which is a ridiculous way of looking at things and exactly why I said earlier in the thread that KW will catch s*** for this move. It's hard to improve your bench or add depth to your bullpen early in the offseason because fans are largely impatient and prone to knee jerk reactions. If this is the only move he makes between now and Spring Training then yeah, you can get pissed but free agency started like 3 days ago -- we haven't even gotten to the winter meetings -- at this point in the '05/'06 offseason we hadn't even acquired Thome yet and that's about the earliest you're going to see a big trade made.

QUOTE (ozzfest @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 01:24 PM) Everyone is giving me a hard time about this thread..But I realized you guys are all being just as irrational as you say that I am. This White Sox team is mediocre. And we lost Dye and Thome. Two integral pieces to our offense. Look at the phillies. Look at the yankees. Look at the Red Sox. The cardinals. the angels. the dodgers..we wouldn't be able to compete with any of these teams..the list goes on and on....you guys are forgetting what city we live in.....it's not like we live in milwaukee....we live in a major city with fans who will come to the games if you put a great team on the field. The White Sox only fill up the ballpark when they're good, or when the cubs, yanks or red sox come to town. I think it's sad to see all of you accept mediocrity. Kenny Williams is a win now guy....but he is getting way to fancy....if the world series was really the goal...would reinsdorf have said that jake peavy is our FA signing? So who exactly is accepting mediocrity? Have you even read your own thread? If the team looks like this come Spring Training the majority of fans will likely be upset. It's just a little hard to get the anger juices going when it's not even Thanksgiving.

All is right in the universe. Jeter actually finished 3rd. That's surprising. Zobrist came in at 8th which is higher than I'd expect given his total lack of name recognition.

QUOTE (LosMediasBlancas @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 01:18 PM) 43 years old. This is a buddy pity deal from Oz. Or the signing of an elite defender to backup 3 infield positions. Doesn't really matter how old you are when you're still fully capable of doing what a team asks of you.

QUOTE (ozzfest @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 12:52 PM) http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/...ophomore-slump/ Yeah, I've seen that. Regression to the mean for largely over hyped and soon to be injured rookie of the year winners (interesting sample size), that's not much of a case against Beckham and not exactly Gleeman's finest work. There's a reason Beckham didn't win the award; he didn't play over his head, this is where most rookie of the year winners have trouble, it's hard to improve upon a season that no few thought you were capable of having in the first place. If you think Gordon Beckham will regress to the mean or get hurt then just say that.

QUOTE (SI1020 @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 12:52 PM) I don't think it's lazy, but it sure as hell is going to be unpopular. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say Beckham won't have the proverbial sophomore slump, but outside of a strong rotation, this team as it currently stands should scare no one. Except perhaps Sox fans who look for a return to the playoffs. A few small negatives about a couple players and "who cares" next to Alex Rios's name isn't lazy? It's the definition of lazy. It's hard to disagree that this lineup is completely made up of question marks and if they don't add at least 1 big bat they're going to struggle to contend but you have to break it down significantly more than this if you don't want to come off as alarmist.

How is a sophmore slump for Beckham "likely". It's certainly possible but what reason is there to believe that it's likely to happen? If you're going to state your concerns about the roster at least be thorough, this is some really lazy analysis.

Why would someone publish to the internet the last few paragraphs of a report their kid wrote for their 4th grade class?

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 06:56 PM) Jenks won't make " a lot " of money. Maybe 6 or 7 mil. The Sox might pay part if they can get Upton. Around $7.5M and yes, that's a lot of money.

His knees are toast, at this point in his career he's a full time DH.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Nov 21, 2009 -> 07:54 PM) isnt it time to move on with that though? Not if you can't find another big bat to fill that spot. Slappy McSlappington isn't going to work for me as a designated hitter, if we're not going to greatly improve the offense in other areas then I have no problem turning to Thome, Vlad or the like.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Nov 21, 2009 -> 06:42 PM) i think hes perfect for a team that isnt going to do anything like the mariners,royals,o's etc. but when ur trying to win a w.s., he'll hurt you more than he'll help you,playing everday. you need more production than that The Mariners did win 85 games last year, they're not cellar dwellers. They just gave up on trying to score runs last season and instead won games with kickass pitching and some of the best team defense you're ever going to see.

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 21, 2009 -> 06:07 PM) Griffey could have fit in with the Sox again as a lefty DH if that's the case. You really think that he's "done" as a player? Yeah, he's not going to give you much at this point, even if he could hit his body isn't going to hold up over more than a half a season's worth of games and he's not a good option in a platton. Thome's not going to make significantly more than Griffey but he does have significantly more left in the tank, so if the Sox do go the ~40 year old, lefty DH route it should be Big Jim.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 21, 2009 -> 05:31 PM) After already signing Jr. to do the exact same thing except while not being Japanese? That Griffey deal was a goodwill contract. He's not being counted on give them much in 2010 and will only make $1M-$1.5M to sell a few tickets and keep their relationship with Griffey strong. Jack Zduriencik has already mentioned acquiring another, more full-time designated hitter and with contract negotiations with Russell Branyan (one of the few guys who did anything for them last year) not going anywhere and their need to improve upon an absolutely terrible 2009 offense they're not going to rule out Hideki Matsui. I also think there's a good chance he returns to the Yankees. The Angels, Rangers, Rays (if Burrell is dealt) and even the Orioles are all options.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 21, 2009 -> 04:21 PM) Kal, I know you're just guessing like the rest of us, but what kind of deal do you see Matsui looking for? My guess is his agent will use Abreu's contract as a starting point (2/$19) and would reasonable accept 2/$15m... You hit it on the head IMO. He'll get a 2 year deal from someone worth $7M+ per. He'd be looking at more if anyone in baseball thought he was capable of playing the field even on an occasional basis.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 21, 2009 -> 12:30 PM) We're counting on a lot of guys to improve drastically next year. Many assume Rios and Pena and Liney and Dotel will automatically be better. Yet a lot on the board believe Pods, who had an excellent season, cannot duplicate next year and that no way Dye can bounce back. Why do some guys get a break where people assume they will suddenly excel and others can't get the same support? It's something about human nature. People are sick of Dye and Pods I guess and hope for the best for others like Rios and Pena. Personally I thought Pena sucked with the exception of 1-2 outings where he showed some nastiness. It's real simple, just look at the 2 things you constantly ignore: age and track record. In Pena's case ability and chance weighs in heavily. Ability is also working against Dye IMO since he doesn't do some of the things other old sluggers tend to do in order to stick around longer (ie: draw walks). Dotel wouldn't have to be better, just be the same guy he's been since arriving in Chicago and he has great value to a club. In one hand you have a 29 year old OF who you will almost undoubtedly get outstanding defense from and a 28 year old reliever with a terrific arm and modest success in his big league career. In the other hand is a couple of OF in their mid 30's, one of whom is now a full time DH candidate and the other played over his head in 2009. Not hard to figure out.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 21, 2009 -> 10:01 AM) I'd like him fora 2-year deal. Guy is an RBI machine, hits lefthanded and would fit in well in our park. Do it. Well, when you're a good hitter and spend 7 years hitting in the middle of the Yankees lineup you better put up big RBI numbers (especially when you don't miss a single game for 3 straight seasons.) Take 2003 for example; he hit 5th and 6th that year behind such players as Jason Giambi (.412 OBP), Derek Jeter (.393), Nick Johnson (.422) and Bernie Williams (.367) or 2009 behind Damon (.365), Teixeira (.383) and Rodriguez (.402).

Omar Vizquel is nowhere near a starting caliber baseball player at this point in his career, everybody just get that out of your heads now. He should still be an elite defender at SS and play very well at both 2B and 3B but he has a 43 year old body that can't hold up to more than a start or 2 a week and most importantly he's an awful offensive player, he'll do all that little bulls*** that people small-ball lovers crave but he'll give you nothing else at the plate. This isn't a National League team and it's not 1988.

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 06:14 PM) I don't know... Teahen and Beckham's D% at 3B last year was nearly identical. (.956 Teahen, .952 Beckham.) Seems to be very close for two guys who either had never played 3B before last season or who hadn't played a significant amount at 3B for abou 3 years. If you're going to look at a fielding metric just take a look at UZR which has Teahen rated well below average for his career and Beckham at just about average in 2009 at 3B. Beckham greatly improved his D as the season went on by the end of the year he was looking pretty damn good over there and the numbers bear that out as it was an uphill climb for him just to reach average.

QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 04:34 PM) Teahen in right field. Teahen's already been named the 3B and we don't even know who will be the othe corner OF or DH so it's a little eary to star discussing lineup juggling. I don't see how even the most cynical among us could believe that Vizquel is being brought in to start or split playing time with one of the infielders.

QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 04:29 PM) With Ozzie making the lineup I'm sure he's going to be starting a lot more games than people would like. Over Beckham, Alexei and Teahen? This isn't Darin Erstad, we actually have legit big league players at the positions Vizquel plays.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 03:55 PM) I'm in the camp saying that I'd lke to know what else that $1M could have gone towards. Nonetheless, we dont know for sure that JR is unwilling to spend. So just like Rios, you cant knock it til you see the final product they have for us. And, much like that move, you cant argue with a move aimed at shaving some brutality off our 2010 late inning defense. It would have gone towards a backup infielder who can give you good defense at short, since there is no in house option. The $1M to $1.5M given to Vizquel will not keep the Sox from acquiring a player they like. They're not going to walk away from a failed negotiation wishing they had that $1M back.

Kenny Williams is going to catch some s*** for this signing from fans prone to knee jerk reactions but this would be a very good move, as would Henry Blanco (hopefully he gets that done as well) regardless of their age or a lack of sexiness in such a move.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:51 PM) Gamestop is gonna have black friday deals. Hardware Xbox 360 Elite Holiday Bundle – Includes games Pure, Lego Batman, and the choice of Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare or Spider-Man: Web of Shadows for $299. PlayStation 3 120GB Holiday Bundle – Includes LittleBigPlanet (Game of the Year Edition) and the God of War Collection for $299. Pre-Owned PSPs for $79.99. 4GB PSP Memory Stick Pro Duo for $19.99. Energizer Xbox 360, PS3, or 2X Wii Controller Chargers for $19.99. Pre-Owned DS Lites for $59.99. Games Halo 3: ODST (Xbox 360) for $39.99. Left 4 Dead 2 (Xbox 360) for $39.99. Forza 3 (Xbox 360) for $39.99. God of War Collection (PS3) for $39.99. Gran Turismo 5: Prologue (PS3) for $29.99. Wii Sports Resort with an extra Wii MotionPlus for $49.99. Am I missing something? Aren't these the standard prices? I believe they're sold for less everyday at Amazon with free shipping.