southsideirish71

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) Gotta remember some positives with the Count though like these; AWAY - .194/.289/.339 .BAA - .225 One bad month, shouldn't take away the 2 great months he had to start the season. If we need a SP in a playoff series away from the Cell, he'd be ideal if Buerhle, Garland or Garcia couldn't take the hill. It depends a lot on which one we get. The one who falls in love with his forkball will get murdered in the playoffs. The one who works faster and doesnt shake off AJ will be ok in the playoffs. He still has to prove that he wont s*** the bed when he faces Boston.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 02:30 PM) Reed was expendable last year because we had 2 guys named Anderson and Sweeney coming in behind him. Show me who's coming in behind those 2 and I'll start saying a trade is fine. Ditto McCarthy. you are not trading both Sweeney and Anderson.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 02:18 PM) No one could guarantee that any trade will win a team a W.S., and that's the real problem here isn't it. You could trade for the best player and pitcher in the game and still lose to the Red Sox in game 7 after going up 3-0. My point is this; if you want to build a team that can really make a multi-year run, be good for a while, and give your team several shots to get over the hump and actually win a W.S., the solution is not found in making the 1 big trade for that 1 guy, it's found in developing your own talent and finding the right pieces around hit. The real key here is cost - we're a middle market team, so every player we have on our roster who makes less than $3 million per year is a player who opens up room under our salary limits. This means young guys are a necessity. If we want to be able to resign Buehrle, Garland, and Garcia, we need a couple guys like Gonzalez and McCarthy who are young and who haven't yet hit arbitration/free agency. Otherwise, we'll be looking at needing $50-60 million to hold together the rotation alone, and for this team, that's just not practical. The same thing goes for guys like Anderson and Sweeney - if we trade them away now, then during the years that they're good an inexpensive, we'll be left with either a hole in the order or a really inexpensive sub. And that's just not a good place to be. If we trade away guys like McCarthy, Anderson, etc., we're dooming ourselves to mediocrity in the hope that nothing will go wrong in that 1 year that we really shoot for the stars. We're hoping there won't be an Aaron Boone who makes some magical hit to beat us, or there won't be a Josh Beckett for another team who just gets on a roll and can't be stopped. Personally, I think we're far better off holding pat and building, unless something comes along really cheap. And for the people we're talking about here, the cost will be very high indeed. I heard this same banter last year. Oh no we cant trade our future away. We will be trading a future phenom catcher and the best prospect in the majors, Reed. Prospects are Prospects. Until they perform at the major league level they are nothing but fodder. Felix Diaz lit up the minors last year with his pitching. He got up here and wet the bed. Arnie Munoz, Danny Wright, Lorenzo Barcelo, Rauch, etc, etc. We have sat here for years watching highly touted prospect after another wet the bed when they come up. Some of them never to be heard from again. If you are so worried about next year and beyond. Do you really thing we are going to resign the Count for his current salary if he sits status quo? Do you think we are going to pick up the 10 million dollar option for Thomas next year? The money will be there. I would rather have a few years of being average, than to sit on our laurels and not make a trade because A.) We have the best record in baseball and dont need to(See the 116 Win Seattle Mariners) or B.) We will mess up our long line of divisional championships. The timing of having the Yanks on a down year, and the other teams are beatable only comes once in a while. The possibility of winning it this year is a very good possibility. I say go for it all this year. We havent been to a WS since 1959( I wasnt alive for that one) and we havent won it since 1917(see 1959).

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 01:56 PM) He also outdueled Grienke twice in close games (think one of them was 2-1, the other was 1-0). I'd like to see a couple more starts before we condemn him. He was pitching great before his last two starts. I don't see how everyone can be so concerned about two bad starts from Contreras and so excited about two good starts from Schmidt when both go against their norms for the season. Hanging our hats on the Count beating a bad Royals team twice or a bad Rockies team isnt looking into history. The count for years would look dominating against bad teams, and then would choke against good ones. The ironic thing is that the minute someone would hit his fastball hard at all, he would completely abandon it and go into the forkball mode. The count is tipping his pitches again, he is working real slow again. We have one of the best game calling catchers that he shakes off over and over. Watch AJ during the game, he and widger both look at wits end when they watch over and over the shake off on the fastball. No one is denying the count has filthy stuff. I am confused why he doesnt feature the 95-96 mph fastball more and use the fork as the out pitch. But he doesnt. The minute someone puts good wood on the ball, he is the forkball machine.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 12:48 PM) I never said he was a fluke. I said he isn't the same pitcher that he used to be. There's a difference. Why don't we go get Chan Ho Park too, he used to be pretty good. Take a look at his stats for this season and tell me that he is an ace that is going to get us to the series. I'll believe it when I see him put up a few more good starts. Well according to people on the SF board he was hitting 94 and 95 on the gun last night. Granted its not the 97 he was throwing last year, but I would take him throwing 94 over El Duque and his 84mph any day of the week and twice on sunday.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 11:55 AM) You know what pisses me off about that is that Contreras cannot understand that calling his own game and doing things his own way are the reasons that he hasnt had the career that he has expected. Put 2 and 2 together, Jose, it aint hard. Cooper should make a deal with him: Let AJ call the entire game, no questions asked. If you get lit up, we do it your way. If you dont, then you do it our way. They should just have Conteras watch Bull Durham. Have them edit all the susan sarandon crap out, and just focus on the catcher and meat dialogue. DONT THINK MEAT, IT HURTS THE TEAM.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 11:43 AM) Hell, as good as our catcher's have been at calling games, the less people shake them off the better. Go ask Buehrle. When's the last time he shook off a catcher? 2002? Conteras only shakes off pitches if you put anything but the forkball down. If you use the forkball sign like 90% of the time. He wont shake off any pitch.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 11:32 AM) My sig is not tongue-in-cheek. Crede has a great swing. If you are the opposing pitcher, its a perfect swing. Its also perfect for missing fastballs low and away. Also sliders low and away. Fastballs over the middle, fastballs in.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 10:48 AM) Boston Gammons flips and flops all year long. Last night he proclaimed that the Angels are the best team in the AL. This was because their pitching and defense is the best in baseball. Give him two weeks and he will proclaim someone else the best.

I wouldnt throw Dingo out as the closer just yet. Cliffy has been as tough as nails this year. That changeup that he developed has made him a new pitcher. That and of course getting strike one on every batter. He has the best stuff to fill in this role. My prayers are to you Dustin and your family in this difficult time.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 09:23 AM) According to the SF Chronicle, there were White Sox scouts watching Schmidt last night. Oriole scouts also. Looks like KW is aiming high. This is from a Giants board.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 05:26 AM) Contreras will earn $8 million next season. I'm sure the Giants would rather just keep Schmidt for $10 million than pay Contreras $8 million. Actually its 6 mill. The yanks gave us money to offset his deal. We could float that back to SF.

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 02:03 AM) I'm still pretty sure that unless KW finds a 3rd baseman that is above and beyond Crede in all areas, we don't make a deal. Credes defense is vastly overlooked by the masses. Every player in a lineup isn't going to hit .300....just simple fact. You have those players that hit .250-.260 but give you so many other things that you live with it. Credes defense allows him to hit .250ish IMO. When our 1-3 in the order aren't getting on base, thats when we lose...not when Crede pops up (again) Crede had a hot streak that brought him up to .240. Now his 2 week hot streak is over and he is back on a down streak. Cruddy Joe by Month April .304 Everyone jumps on the bandwagon. Joe figured it out. The cage worked. May .155 Some people like myself, look Crede is back to normal. He sucks. Others well he had a great May. June .254 2 good weeks followed by more ineptness. Well we are ok with Joe hitting .250 ish because he plays good dfense. .250 would be good, .260 would be great. But he is hitting .235 and he is on his way down. If his current crap streak keeps up he will be below .230 in a week or so. Do you really think that if Joe is sub .230 in Valentin territory that KW is going to watch this guy pull the human fan routine waving at everything popping crap up is going to sit well. And before everyone jumps on the well we have the best record in baseball, lets not make any changes. How did Seattle do after they won 116 games. Did they lift that WS trophy high, they didnt do anything and came up short in the playoffs.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 01:49 AM) Jason Johnson is a good, solid pitcher, hopefully Brandon is on his game and can get win numero uno. So I wonder if the whitesox offense struggles tonight to get a few hits are we going to say. No offense would of hit them. Or did you see him pitch, he really lived on the corners. The cure for our offense is our hitters not taking home run cuts. Shortening the swings up, swinging at strikes, laying off balls. Jason Johnson is not that good.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 11:53 PM) He was really, really good tonight. When you hit corners like he did today no offense is going to hit you. I have heard this before. Everytime a pitcher shuts us down, everyone starts talking about how, did you see that pitcher, did you see his curveball, he hit the corners, he changed speeds. I watched the replay, if our hitters actually shortened their swings up on 2 strikes they would of had a chance. But taking home run cuts when the count has 2 strikes in it doesnt help. Our offense ranks at the bottom of the MLB in singles, doubles, and triples. We make good pitchers look great. And great pitchers look HOF worthy. The minute that these guys shorten up their swings on 2 strikes or stop taking home run swings everytime they are up in the box, the better they will hit. They really need to work on being more consistant.

QUOTE(Soxnbears01 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 09:25 PM) a bit, it's only been a couple games. Find me 1 team that doesn't go through this. Give it a few more days, they'll find it again. They've already done it at least once this year. That once before was called April and May. We clicked for a few weeks when we started playing the NL West. But as the temperature heats up, we start looking long ball. Our pitching is killer. No doubt. Mark Buerhle needs to start the Allstar game. He is a stud. Thank you whitesox pitching for this win.

9 strikeouts from Nate Roberston. Wow thank God I was working and not watching this game. Well its nice to see that it was just facing a 300 game winner and facing Prior that was keeping our offense down. So what was the story tonight, swinging for the fences, not working the count, pulling the baseball like madmen. Thank God Buerhle is a stud. This offense needs to start to click a bit more when they dont face the rockies or royals. These guys have got to string a few hits together. Credes awsome June lasted 2 weeks.

Lineups are in. Starting Lineups No. Chicago White Sox Detroit 1 Scott Podsednik, LF Brandon Inge, 3B 2 Tadahito Iguchi, 2B Placido Polanco, 2B 3 Frank Thomas, DH Carlos Guillen, SS 4 Paul Konerko, 1B Rondell White, LF 5 Aaron Rowand, CF Ivan Rodriguez, C 6 Jermaine Dye, RF Dmitri Young, DH 7 Joe Crede, 3B Craig Monroe, RF 8 Chris Widger, C Chris Shelton, 1B 9 Juan Uribe, SS Nook Logan, CF

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:54 PM) We don't need to trade for Jason Schmidt or Roger Clemens. You're basically going to use 3 guys through most of the playoffs, with one, maybe two starts for the 4th guy. For a 4th starter, Contreras works. Considering he would probably be facing the other team's 4th starter like Miller/Wakefield, Wang, or whatever scrub Baltimore or Texas throw out there, I wouldn't worrry that much. LA is the only team with a credible 4th starter, but it'd probably be Bird (doing better than he should right now) unless Escobar gets his s*** together, which doesn't seem likely. Oontreras against the Redsox? Good lord. He s***s himself everytime you mention Fenway.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:36 PM) With the way the playoff is scheduled, you won't have to depend on them to start. It would go Buehrle, Garcia, Garland then Buehrle again. The only time El Duque or Contreras were to start is if we're about to win the series and we are up 3-1 at one point. Teams dont go with a 3 man rotation outside of the first round that much. We will need 4 starters.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:08 PM) And you do realize that 4th ace will only start 2 max games in the playoffs? Another ace isn't needed. It's a luxury. Well we have a possible 4th starter in Conteras who s***s himself everytime he sniffs Fenway. or We have another guy who had a 5.40 ERA in the playoffs last year. He was hitting 88-90 on the gun. This year he is hitting 84-85 and has been on the DL now twice. I keep forgetting where starts in the playoffs are throw aways because they only happen a few times.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:22 PM) Do we not trust our scouting? All this drop in velocity talk w/ some people saying it has been up in his past 2 starts. I trust our scouts to make the correct evaluation. This is from Rotoworld.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:07 PM) I'm going to make an assumption here: the Sox will win the division and make the playoffs. This is a valid assumption because no team has had a 10 game lead on its league/division prior to the all-star break or July and not won its respective league/division. For lots and lots of years, lots and lots of baseball has been played and for that to not have occurred yet is remarkable and suggests it is highly unlikely to occur in the future. Yes I know Minnesota and Cleveland and Detroit are teams that can all make a run, but barring two major injuries (i.e. a starting pitcher and an everyday player going down for the rest of the season), but the Sox have done well against them the entire season thus far. I digress, this is not what I am arguing about. Hopefully I'm not making a rush to a conclusion here, but you're telling me that we should get Schmidt if it cost us some mixture of McCarthy, Anderson, Marte, and Sweeney (definitely 2 out of those 4 and maybe 3 out of those 4). Because we have already assumed the play-offs, we will not be needing Schmidt to reach this point. Rather, you're stating that essentially we only need him for one game: game 3 or game 4. The question you need to ask yourself is this: "does Jason Schmidt give this team a significantly better shot to win a game 3 or game 4 in the playoffs (either by pitching it himself or moving down Garcia/Garland in the rotation to that game) to the point where it is worth it to concede several prospects that many foresee helping the White Sox to future division championships?" Schmidt's health thus far this season, coupled with his fairly weak vs. AL stats make me question if he will be able to upgrade our chances this season to a point where it is worth giving up the crown jewel prospect of the Sox, a good reliever, and maybe two good OF prospects. I still think the road to the WS will go through Fenway. We will have the home field advantage. But game 3.4.5 would be at Fenway. The thought of having Conteras or El Duque pitch in Fenway scares the hell out of me. Schmidt or AJ would give us a better chance to win in those games. And in the playoffs there are no throwaway games. All of them count. The first one to 4 wins moves on.

Boston most likely will be in the playoffs. And do you really want the count going up against a team that he has s*** the bed pretty much every time he has faced them.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 12:44 PM) Sorry for asking this dumb question, but why do we need Schmidt or Burnett again? Do you want to throw this years El Duque or Conteras out in game 4 with the pressure on. El Duque is hitting 84-85 and Conteras is a mixed bag. He may throw a great game, then again he may s*** himself silly. Its too much of a risk.