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Why wouldn't he be happy with the Chicago media ? Apparently some grown men want to manage and coach White Sox players now and in the future. Not everyone cares about how bad they are right now or judge everything White Sox negatively .There are people that have positive dispositions that they use to approach what most see as a bad situation. That's why there are social workers and volunteers during crisises. Help us out brother Sasaki we're a disaster and join the cult of Getz. "Ask not what the White Sox can do for you but what you can do for the White Sox". Chris Getz Balta Style quotes

All Getz has to do is reach out to Iguchi ( Sasaki's former manager) and ask him for help and promise him he'll hire him as a coach if Sasaki signs with the Sox. Iguchis been quoted a few years back as wanting to be in a Sox uniform again. What better way to celebrate the 2005 team than to have Iguchi back in uniform and bringing along the pitcher to lead the Sox to their next championship . I'm sure Sasaki must remember Iguchi fondly for trying to set up a program along with the pitching coach to both protect and strengthen him.Certainly Getz could point out how much Garrett Crochet benefitted from how the Sox handled and strengthened him as a selling point to Iguchi who would then convey it to Sasaki. Hey it's more of a connection than a lot of teams have.

Oh it's easily better than anything they would have got at the TDL. A lot of people were pissed at Crochet around here for saying he'd need an extension to pitch in the post season and that he wanted to stick to his SP routine. Thought teams would hold a grudge because he was acting like a Prima Donna. He was just being a smart businessman looking out for his health and career. AJ Pierzynski called Crochet the biggest loser of the trade deadline because he had to remain on the Sox and not on a contender. When Crochet struggled in August plenty also wanted him shut down. If that had happened despite not being hurt it's bad optics . Basically it all worked out for the best even if Getz felt blindsided at the TDL. By continuing to pitch and finishing strong he increased his value. Pitching 146 innings after pitching only 12.2 in 2023 and none in 2022 screamed healthy arm .

Just wondering how you came up with the consenus on the Cease trade. Do you have a list of people who graded it ?

Sure it's not perfect .But in the position player prospects hugging environment we've witnessed lately and starting from rock bottom I'll still like a package that is both quality and quantity.

Yep anyone not happy with this trade is picking nits. They needed this kind of return and they got it. Now let's see how these new coaches they brought in can do along with Bannister to develop the players and ge pipeline of talent incoming.

Yeah it sucks but if somehow Getz can turn the Sox into the Tampa Bay of their division they'll be a lot more competitive on a year to year basis. That's a huge ask though. Most teams with no money don't have the type of succcess TB has had and the Sox are the last team I'd expect to actually build high level scouting and development systems both domestically and internationally especially while Reinsdorf is still the owner. Welcome to the new reality.

Great point. I basically got my wish that Boston would view him as the next sale and that Crochet had to be the haul we all wanted. This is a haul. 3 position prospects, one a highly talented switch hitting OF with a great arm high upside .All 3 position players are good OBP guys. The pitcher is high risk high reward arm who seemed to strive in 2023 once he was told to concentrate on his between starts work rather than how he did when pitching. Definitely a guy getting in his own head about his future but also talented. Unfortunately he regressed in 2024 but that's probably why he was available as the 4th piece. He'll need to show something this year under Banister's tutelage.

Why do you have to be so cock sure that your opinion is the end all be all ? It's not all or nothing. Yes the player has the talent. But when a player has a breakout it's the player and when they suck it's the Sox cant develop ? Clearly they've had a lot of success with pitching since they hired Bannister . A lot of the minor league arms show promise. There was a plan created for him , they changed his pitch mix and his grip on certain pitches and at the end of the year he was learning a sinker to limit HRs against him. This plan was the result of many people including Bannister ,Katz and the medical staff to keep him on a strict schedule that he didn't want to deviant from if he was traded at the TDL. Yes the talent was there but talent alone does not get you to the top especially in baseball.

Plus you're going for the best position player package possible because you just need the talent so bad . Teel and Montgomery are both 50 FV and Teel is close to ready.

Ventura was pretty damn good .Had 6 years with the Sox wit an average bWar over 5. But never slugged very high. Good OBP cause he took walks. Nothing wrong with walks especially when you don't slug but I tend to think WAR is inflated for very good fielding and walks . I'd certainly put him in the Hall of very good with Konerko and Abreu but Robin didn't really ever have monster hitting stats. He did have a 6.7 bWAr his 1st year with the Mets. Great career just nto a great hitter which is sort of where I draw the superstar line even if it's just 1 year like Dye had with that 1.000 OPS . I ding Abreu for his 60 game MVP.

That's pretty much it especially if we see Robert moved before he has a chance to show he's not the guy he was at year. Get that $15M off the books Chris .

I tried to get creative with a Crochet trade to maxmize the return .You said nobody does that. I thought creativity is doing things that very few do. I didn't see anyone structuring a contract like what the Dodgers did with Ohtani. Dodgers trade for Glasnow was contigent on extending him. How often is that done in baseball ? I know they didn't buy out arb years but all it takes is finding the right team that values the opportunity to have Crochet longer than 2 years even if it's just one more year if Crochet wants to give a little discount for those 2 years that he's at his greatest risk of losing large amounts of future money. I know it's not likely to happen but I'd certainly float the idea to teams as GM with Crochet's agents involvement of course. Dodgers may not have thought of signing Ohtani the way they did until Ohtani suggested it. I just keep thinking any Crochet trade is going to take a while when position player top prospects hugging is at levels we've never seen before. Many are speculating Robert is getting moved and I'm afraid to even imagine the poor return Getz might broker now. Crochet might be the only shot to get a really good return.

Glad to see he was elected. Really the 1st true superstar the Sox had in my lifetime , then Albert Bell and Frank Thomas . That's been it as far as position players go arguably. There's been other HOF guys like Baines but he never put up a monster type season maybe 1984 but career high 29 HRs & 13th in MVP voting. Jermaine Dye in 2006 was pretty elite and had a really good career with the Sox.

Thread title change anyone to say Allen is now a Hall of Famer please ?

I dont understand your point. My point was prospects get extended all the time, not just Sox prospects ,so how it turned out for the examples I used doesn't even matter. Crochet is the most valuable tradable pitcher on the market .His peripherals are off the charts. He has 2 yrs left where a bad injury could be extremely costly to him. He may want to signn an extension right away to minimize that risk same as he did at the trade deadline. That feasible isn't it ? Even if you don't like the idea of giving a team a 48 hr window to sign him to an extension, how much surplus value is it worth to be the team that has 1st shot at resigning him ? He a proven major League pitcher at the top of his game and you have him for 2 years. What's that worth now $30M-$40M per year ? I'll guess his surplus value is close to $100M Just for the 2 years and the chance to extend him .Exclusive negotiation rights. How do they calculate surplus or future value for prospects with full service time ranked anywhere from 1 to 100 and beyond ? What is proven value of a star pitcher worth per year over an unproven position prospect ? In the past they've calculated based on the prospects' grade like 45, 50 FV . I'm just trying to establish everyone's value to justify saying we deserve a haul even with these teams position player top prospects hugging. It makes it so much harder to evaluate trades given the huge disparity among fans on the Cease trade . The most vocal are always the ones who are unhappiest with it and yell "Getz better get a haul this time , he didn't get enough for Cease." Everyone wants a haul but when I say damn right he's worth a haul people want to argue that the chance to extend him, be it right away or a year from now , isnt worth as much as I think it is. Of course if you wait a year he may decide " f*** you , you didn't want to extend me right away and I just pitched great for you so I'll just bet on myself now that I successfully completed another year and made myself possibly $100M more valuable by knocking off 50% of the time before I become a free agent. If I stay healthy 1 more year and pitch great again I might get $500M but hey you couldve had me an extra year but you blew it" . There's still plenty of doubt out there about Crochet because of his health history and how he'll do the year after pitching the most innings he ever had. These teams always find a reason to say you don't deserve more. Cease was healthy but oh no he had a down year which effectively lowered his value. Crochet was as close as you can get to a stud for a guy who pitched way more innings than he ever had before and he had no health problems whatsoever. Everyone was screaming about shutting him down once he got knocked around a bit in August. But he came back very strong in September. I'd be surprised if he's traded at the Winter Meetings. Getz is asking for a haul like our fans want but these other teams all scream it's too much , we aren't giving up our top prospects. If everything goes right for Crochet he could be the 1st $500M starting pitcher .If a lot goes wrong he could be like Rodon was when he signed for $3M .

Interesting way to say you aren't blaming Getz because of the position prospect hugging without saying it.

TB signed Glasnow to a $25M 1 yr contract then traded him and the trade was contigent on being extended by the Dodgers. Glasnow hadn't ever put up more than 120 inning. Crochet pitched 146 in his 1st year of starting. Dodgers extended Glasnow 5 more years. Why would a team give up more when they don't have to ? Because he could be at the top of your rotation leading you to multiple World Series wins. Its the same reason why you sign free agents only Crochet would still be a relative bargain. All it takes is 1 team. The Orioles aren't any better off having had Burns for a year. The longer you have elite talent the longer your window. Teams extend and buy out arbitration years all the time .The Sox did it with Moncada , Eloy and Robert didn't they ?

I think I explained all already in detail in previous posts. Do you think he can do 2 years of elite quality starting pitching and stay healthy standing on his head ? There's a huge downside risk that could be the difference between making $10M for 2 years and $200M or more. God forbid he bets on himself and he gets so injured that's he's never the same.Common sense would say sign an extension asap while youre at the top of your game but leave an out for you to make more. if everything goes right for 3 years youre into huge money. If everything goes wrong you're talking out of baseball or always injured and chasing money. You just can't slough off 2 years of pitching as if there's no risk involved. All he has to do is sign a 1 year extension and do whatever with opt outs if he wants more years. He could probably get the 2 remaining arb years bought out and the extra year and get $60M easy. It's just a difference of 1 year. Why gamble with the 1st 2 years when you can get paid for them plus another year. Even if you do blow your arm out at least you get $60M instead of $10M. These are all just hypothetical dollar guesses. He would still be a FA at 28 with $60M already banked with a huge contract waiting. All you're doing is mitigating the risk and banking an extra $50M for 1 more year of servitude. I have no idea why he wouldn't want to do this. He's not hurting his big money chances at all. Seems like a no brainier to me. Explain to me how it costs him money ?

Who's to say it can't happen though ? Crochet continuing to stay healthy and reaching his full potential would be like having prime Sale. You could risk losing that or have the choice of keeping him . Even if you get him for just an extra year isn't it worth it to take a risk ? There's a number of different ways an extension could work. Why should Getz just give that opportunity to a team for nothing ? If the team that gets Crochet wants to wait a year to see how he pitches in 2025 they're then risking Crochet pitching very well and becoming even more expensive. It's much easier then for Crochet to say I'll take my chances and bet on myself for 1 year rather than 2 years. It cuts his risk in half .

If you were trading for Crochet wouldn't you want him for more than 2 years if he was willing to sign a reasonably priced extension if only for another year guaranteed then another couple years but with opt outs. While many players take the stance of betting on themselves Crochet and his agent have to know you weigh the risk of pitching for 2 more years for maybe $10M and ending up with less future $ if you get hurt or underperform vs signing for close to $100M to get 10 x as much while getting opt outs to possibly make $200M+ best case scenario. Worst case scenario is saying I'll take the risk I'm a healthy great pitcher for 2 more years and then youre not and you end up getting a bare minimum pension. Why not get paid $20-25M per year for the next 3 years if you can get it then opt out if you live up to the hype and then get a $200M contract. It's a lot better than getting $10M for 2 years of service time while risking all your future paychecks. If he does this right and becomes elite he could amass over $300M.

I just wrote a post a couple days ago saying give anyone with good prospcts they're willing to part with 48 Hrs to work out an extension which would then net the Sox a better trade package in return. Just have to have a trade almost finished with a prospect to be added if they can extent him. If not then onto the next team.

Exactly. I think I said you could trade Davis Martin next because of his age if he can stay healthy and put up some good peripherals. He'd be right in a good age for starting pitching peak years .

Funny how everyone wants JR to die while he's like the black plague spreading disease and death to his franchise and it's fanbase. There's a reason why the Sox wear black.

I don't think there's any one way of thinking ,when u start from rock bottom, to get players for a window. We don't know when there will be a window.What kind of window ? Don't you need enough talent to get to 75 wins before you get to 85 or 95 ? Right now the Sox are 34 wins away from even 75 wins. They are not going to be able to amass enough prospect talent or even current young MLB talent to have any shot at the playoffs any time soon at the rate JR is clutching the purse strings. This going to be a patch work quilt. Get enough talent to keep the fans going to see them play so JR spends a little more while you pray that Getz can do what no other GM has done for a long time ands develop prospects in our system while signing some successful international players and drafting well and slowly build up the depth in the system . Best case scenario is the pitching becomes very good , a couple of prospects work out. Scout, develop, trade,draft, sign rinse and repeat and see if u can become Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay didn't even start this barren and we got people talking about a window as if you know when it's going to be and who will be a part of it. Window ?? I feel like Jim Mora ranting "don't talk to me about playoffs" when his team sucked so bad in a game he had more concern just about winning the next game than the playoffs. This is where we are .We're barely crawling .We haven't even got close to baby steps yet. And that baby will stumble and fall many times. Just amass as much talent as possible at SS . If they are fast and powerful and athletic they can be moved. The next window is climbing out of this pit with the owner of the pit still here laughing at us for still caring about it to have opinions about the most direct path to just being average instead of putrid.