CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:57 AM) He could be Brooks Robinson defensively. His offensive production has to dramatically improve to justify him playing every day. Does he have to be Longoria, Wright or Zimmerman? Of course not. Does he have to be Adrian Beltre? No. But Ty Wiggington/Adam Kennedy-like production will not suffice. I just updated his post ASB numbers .279/.319/.434 OPS .753 .

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:33 AM) Brent Morel hasn't "earned" anything. He's been well below average offensively (though he's produced well the last week or so) even in a year in which 3B production is down all over baseball. He'll get another shot next year. Not because he deserves it. But because there's nobody that's a threat to him. Certainly nothing in our minor league system. And the only two free agents worth a damn are Ramirez, and we're certainly not going to make a play for him, and Edwin Encarnacion, who's had a very solid year as a cheap FA signing in Toronto. The Blue Jays have a club option on EE. I imagine they'll bring him back. My points exactly except I think he has earned it if you consider defense which you did not. A few weeks ago when he had 1 HR I predicted in a post he would finish with 5. He now has 5 .His post ASB numbers are decent so I would give him more than the last week or so.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:00 AM) Good Lord this is scary. I'm surprised the Sox are above .500. I don't if the Sox can afford to have Morel in the line up with the rest of these guys. Since you used the word "afford" Morel makes $400,000 the 1st 2 guys on the list make a combined $24 million this year and $81 million left on their contracts through 2014. The bigger question is can the Sox not afford to keep him in the lineup ?

I like Brent Morel. I make no bones about that. I have a soft spot for good defensive players and think defense is underrated especially when your team has some of the worst offensive regulars in all of MLB. With the budgetary constraints of the Sox I think he has earned another shot next year. To be fair I'll give the good and bad facts. Among AL hitters with at least 350 plate appearances, Morel has the fifth-worst total of batting runs above average. That's bad enough, but look who's there with him. 1. Alex Rios: -26.4 2. Adam Dunn: -19.4 3. Alcides Escobar: -19.4 4. Aaron Hill: -17.4 5. Brent Morel: -16.5 6. Gordon Beckham: -16.5 Out of the 4 Sox on that list Morel is a lot closer to his projected numbers than any of the other 3. The other 3 have been huge disappointments whereas Morel is a slight disappointment. Tallest midget yea I know but he certainly is not one of the Sox main problems. 3rd base is not the power position it once was considered to be. In the most recent four seasons, third basemen have only out-slugged second basemen by .15. That’s less than half what it was a decade ago. In 2011, second basemen are out-slugging third basemen by a couple points. If you sort by wOBA CF hitting has been much better across the board than 3B or 2B, which have been roughly equal this year. So both CF and 2nd base ( not traditional power positions ) are better than the current crop of 3rd basemen, speaking of which, if you want the Sox to upgrade at 3rd here is a list of 3rd base free agents. Wilson Betemit KC Casey Blake LAD Eric Chavez NYY Mark DeRosa SF Greg Dobbs PHI Edwin Encarnacion TOR Wes Helms FLA Melvin Mora ARI Aramis Ramirez CHC Miguel Tejada SF Omar Vizquel CWS Not a good list at all . Ramirez is the only one truly much better than Morel but will cost a fortune so not very likely for a team like the Sox who already have a lot of money committed to too many guys. Morel post ASB is .279/.319/.434 OPS .753 or pretty much right in line or better than what most have expected from him since the beginning of the year. IF Morel can even make a slight improvement on those numbers it should put him in the middle of the pack of ML 3rd basemen offensively . Throw in his D and he's now a very solid middle of the pack guy. Morel has shown a tendency to improve at each level of pro ball that he has been. I expect that to continue. Who really knows what the Sox told him at the beginning of the year. Maybe just "play good D concentrate on hitting the ball up the middle and the opposite way, move the runners over , do the little things and let the big guys do their thing." Since the big guys haven't done their thing Morel's power struggles and OBP have been magnified in many of our eyes. Given the dearth of quality 3rd basemen in MLB and the Sox budgetary problems I think Morel has easily earned another shot next year. I got much of this information via the article and comments section here http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/9/7/24096...-of-brent-morel

QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 09:06 PM) Congrats to juan. I wonder how many players have achieved that mark. Juan became the 268th player to reach that milestone. Konerko tied Ventura's Sox record for career grannies at 10.

I'll count this as "And that's White Sox winner" thread. Paulie with the grannie, Morel 2 Hr's 4 RBI, Floyd struggled but got outs when it counted. Thornton 1st win of the year. Congrats to Juan on a fine achievement and I echo the sentiments of Milkman . Was nice knowing you Juan.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 09:13 PM) Again, I see nothing wrong with complaining about the approach a hitter had that was so blatantly awful. He's one of those guys you want to understand that it's ok to strike out as long as you're dangerous at the plate. I guess if you like to complain you can find something to complain about on every player . Myself I like to look at the positive , I see the good because finding fault in others is never a good thing unless it makes you feel better about yourself.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) Disagree with this big time. He was an absolute joke offensively for the first 135 games or so. Just because Dunn, Rios and Beckham have been so bad, it doesn't mean Morel should get a free pass for one of the most ineffective offensive seasons for a third baseman in a long time. Have you looked at the WAR of some of the 3rd basemen just this year alone ? McGeehee, Valencia, Reynolds, Dobbs, Moustskas, Inge and Don Kelly for the Tigers, Adam Kennedy and Chone Figgins all the Pirates 3rd basemen, Ty Wigginton . Yea I know you said just offense but baseball plays defense too which WAR accounts for. Even some of those guys I mentioned have been just as bad if not worse than Morel offensively too. Why undervalue his defensive contributions so much?

QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 08:54 PM) I agree with you. I was just adding that the stats they used to compare the two were based on . . . I'm not sure what? I didn't think anyone here thought he would be mike schmidt. The point we are both trying to make, I think, is that with some time, its quite possible that he improves. He has shown some potential. I think it's very likely he improves. As Balta is so fond of pointing out. He has made adjustments to improve at every level. His adjustment to the majors has been a bit slower but it's highest level a pro ball player can reach so maybe his adjustment period is taking a little bit longer.

QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 08:39 PM) Since you are making arbitrary stats that have little to no meaning in actual production. - here is another: Walks + HR - Ks = better career Schmidt: -56 Morel: -29 Brent wins! HOF first ballot. Best 3B all time. I'm kidding of course, but why not look at something like OPS which is more agreed upon. Brent is obviously lagging there, (.697 v .634) but not by a huge amount. Schmidt ended up with a career OPS .200 points higher than that. If brent can improve his ops by even half that, .100, while providing the plus defense he is quite capable of, he will have a very solid career. I think its more likely than it is unlikely. Yea maybe we can have a whole teams of .196 hitters who make a ton of errors and K a bunch of times. I'm sure that would be very productive. Can't believe you guys take every thing so literally as if I was saying Morel will have a Schmidt-like career. As I pointed out later, I just want to see people be a little more patient considering he's a rookie. The complaints about him should be way down on the list of complaints.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 08:37 PM) What happened to your shortchanging post when you shortchanged Mike Schmidt? That was hilarious. Yea it was . Got the RBI mixed up with the walks but the fact remains he still shortchanged Morel. I double checked and saw I was wrong. More than some of you can do.

If you made a list of the top 25 Sox problems this year Morel would be about 20th.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 08:21 PM) I personally have faith in Morel going forward. I think the power will be there in his sophomore year. I've held off on attacking him this year because of that. At least you get it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) So Morel should be a more disciplined Mike Schmidt. Awesome. Just pointing out rookies don't always set the world on fire. Leave it to some of you guys to whine about a guy still learning.

In Mike Schmidt 1st year as a full time 3rd baseman He had 443 plate appearances 62 walks 18 HR , 17 errors .196 BA . 56 RBI , 136 K's. Maybe Morel could have hit 18 HR if all he did was swing for the fences.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 07:50 PM) You got word he'll be back? Regarding Morel, I've hated his approach all year, but it's nice to see him finally swing at the ball like a man. I've been waiting for him to turn and burn all year and it appears he is finally doing it (just in time as the season is over). It still doesn't exonerate him from being guilty of being a sally at the plate most of the year, however. If it's not lift and pull which we hear so much about on here and not in a good way it's hitting like a pansy ? As a rookie maybe he was just getting a feel on how to approach certain pitchers or pitchers in general. Both HR's tonight on 1st pitch fastballs. He seems to be a smart player and I think next year we see a batter average and power to go with that stellar glove.

Grannie !

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 07:46 PM) And in fairness, Morel hasn't done much until the games became meaningless. Except field his position very well.

QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 07:42 PM) You rag on him way too much considering he is a rookie. In all fairness he is far from the only one.

No. 5 !!!! Next years 3rd baseman !

QUOTE (hawksox13 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 06:33 PM) Football over pointless White Sox baseball shouldn't puzzle you. And nobody cares about Juan Pierre's 2,000th hit. Let's be honest, he didn't do much of his "damage" in a Sox uniform and he isn't well liked by the fan base. Guess there isn't as many die-hards as I thought here.

QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 06:14 PM) It doesn't puzzle me when the sox are out of it. If it was the Bears I'd understand.

Wow 9 users in the game thread 7 guests. Juan Pierre 2000 hits . Congrats Juan ! Football over White Sox baseball puzzles me.

2 or 3 weeks ago when Morel had 1 HR i predicted he'd finish with 5.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 07:10 PM) Morel has a bunch of walls lately. 7 in the last 2 weeks. This is of course what I've been saying the whole time... Development takes time Me and you are some of the few who like Morel. For a rookie who plays great defense he gets way too much hate around here. Also one of the few Sox who can go to right when the situation calls for it. Too many around here want instant superstars. I want progress from a rookie and he's showed me that.