CaliSoxFanViaSWside

I just posted in another thread about going after some of the better arms left on the relief market to perhaps trade from excess in order to resolve, 2nd base and 4th OF. The names I came up with were Michael, Fulmer Matt Moore or Andrew Chafin. The I discovered that MLBTR has an article covering the remaining relief pitchers on the market. I originally took my info from a November article I read on the 10 best remaining relief pitcher and those 3 were the only ones left on the list. So there are others listed in the MLBTR headine story. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

I'd like to see the Sox go after 1 of these 3 guys who are left. Michael Fulmer, Andrew Chafin and Matt Moore. Maybe even 2 of them. Then you have the depth needed to trade Hendriks taking 1 or 2 of the 3 decent remaining relief pitchers off the market. Or you can hold onto Hendriks and trade Kelly/Diekman/Ruiz. I would hope that the money to sign them is less than the Hendriks money but even if it's a little more you have more pieces to trade and alter your payroll any way you want . Snatch up more relievers and let see the offers come pouring in for our excess. Might be able to resolve 4th OF and 2nd base that way while holding onto our prospects.

Shouldn't you have said Bah Humbug ? Happy Holidays !

No I did say offensive highlights in my intro. There's only one defensive highlight I can find and that was when he played CF in the Futures game and came in quickly on a sinking liner from Dusty Bakers son. That was right around the time he got promoted from A+ to Birmingham. I'm just reminding people they shouldn't worry about Colas' bat so much. Quick bat, hits hangers well . Seems to like the ball down. I would expect a large amount of sinkers, sliders and fastballs up to him.

Here's some Colas offensive highlights from the minors starting at AAA then progressing through AA and A+. https://www.milb.com/video/colas-posts-1st-aaa-four-hit-game?t=playerid-693049

I don't think they are available but I wouldn't count number of balls fielded divided by number of innings times 9 as anything meaningful or even moderately useful. Even statcast info wasn't very useful Vaughn's 1st season in the OF since everyone here was saying he was adequate while I screamed until i was blue in the fingers that he was terrible .

You should also look at " jump" along with range. This will show how instinctual an OFer is. Vaughn's was very low. But I would offer that getting those baseball savant type stats won't mean much for a while since he has to play a good amount before those stats can be compiled. cola's arm will definitely be better than Eloy's Vaughn, Sheets and probably Benintendi's too eventually. I don't think defensive positioning has much to do with range. I think it's based a starting point and a finishing point when tracking down a catch. Jump may be the same thing although it seems like something based in micro seconds and how fast a player reacts from the crack of the bat or the ability to read a flyball's end point quickly. The more you know about how a ball spins from a RHH or LHH is all prep work and keeping that in your head in the OF.

Probably why they signed Hamilton if they knew that Payton to Seibu was a thing.

Ha I like the cut of your jib ! Happy Holidays Trev !

I probably would too but that might be even harder to figure out but not for the reasons you gave. I wouldn't consider a move for prospects to be a sign of cost cutting. The Sox need quality prospects preferable a couple that have already advanced to AA or AAA that can be used as trade fodder for 2023 now or at the trade deadline or held onto for use in the 2nd half of the season on the 26. I hope that if the Sox sign Duvall or a decent reliever or both before they trade Hendriks that it will be a sign to you that they are a bit more serious than you think they are. Right now I'm holding out hope that the Benintendi trade and then an immediate trade of Hendriks would send a terrible message to fans, like Ha we gave you hope and now we are going to smash it because we are a sadistic group of MF's !! So yeah I'm looking for a sign like Duvall to show me they aren't that sadistic.

Ha ok can we make it 22 HR's for Vaughn ? I'd feel better betting on a higher number just so we can both say we expect Vaughn to hit at least 5 more HR's than last year. You win if he hits 23. Gentleman's bet unless we can figure out any terms at a later date.

I didnt say Hendriks needed to be traded with Crochet. I said that's what was suggested by and ex GM and it may be more even now or that the Yankees could throw in an arm. I have no idea what would be involved actually so if anything I am saying Hendricks is worth a guy who had 4.1 bWAR last year which would've been barely behind ABreu's team leading 4.2 bWar. Fangraphs gave Abreu a 3.9 and Torres a 2.7 so big difference in the War numbers between Fangraphs and Baseball Reference on Torres WAR total but even at 2.7 he still would've been 2nd on the Sox.

I'm not predicting who hits how many HR's I'm just saying we need more power from the whole lineup. The more the merrier but I'm not going to count on Anderson, Benintendi , Moncada and Grandal to all hit 15 each. I'd like to count on Eloy for 30+ and 25 each from Robert and Vaughn but 2 of those 3 are injured often. Another 20 from Torres would be very helpful to offset any lack of power from any of those guys in my 15 Hr group. Also Tim hit 20 HR's once so I made a mistake to say Tim had never hit 20.

I said this much earlier however. The ex GM who suggested the trade seemed to think Liam and Crochet was fair. Since that time we've seen the price of relievers go higher which in turn makes Liam worth more . I don't know if the Yankees would throw in another arm along with Torres but Gleybar Torres is a fine player and more production is needed from the everyday lineup to remove high leverage innings from the pen and give them a cushion to work with. The addition of Benintendi and Torres put 2 more solid bats in the lineup and we've would've been better last year with more consistent and healthy bats. I'm good waiting to see how things shake out with the Yankees and Dodgers and our own "will he or won't he spend more mystery". A difference maker at 2nd base isn't cheap. It's funny people remember how good Liam was on a .500 team but never seem to bring up that the Sox scored 3 runs or less in around half their games and lost Abreu. This team needs more power and there are plenty of people here who think it's not likely to come from Grandal, Moncada or Benintendi and have their doubts about Colas too. It also leaves Anderson and Vaughn who aren't yet 20 HR guys. That leaves the 2 most often injured guys on our team to produce power Eloy and Robert.

I am aware of the possibilities. I can't take a stance one way or another. It's a guessing game. Just seems odd that an uplifting move like Benintendi would be immediately followed by a cost cutting move. Plus even if Hendriks is traded and the Sox save some money I'm not certain that it would signal they aren't going to spend any more. But it would help to sign someone 1st before a Hendriks trade . Teams like the Yankees and Dodgers have to solve their own position player issues before I'd commit to dealing with them about Hendriks.

Yes it may but at least it would give us an indication that they do intend to do a little more than last year to get things right.

A Liam trade to the Yankees involving Gleybar didnt get a lot of play in this thread so far. O dowd made the intial suggestion and it included Crochet. Yankees do need a closer and have a nice amount of depth in the middle infield. They would also be selling the highly inconsistent Torres on a high note. The Yankess obviously have pieces they rather move 1st and a hole in LF. I doubt they still want Donaldson or Aaron Hicks, But they've also had recent good news involving LeMahieu's toe so that would solve some issues at 3rd base. Maybe the Yankees move Gleybar in a deal for someone like Reynolds. Or they move some of the prospects like Volpe, Peraza or Cabrera. SS is also a trouble spot for the Yankees so when you look at 2nd and SS for them it's tough to predict what they do. I think it's an interesting trade idea,Hendriks for Torres . Not sure of any other pieces but they both have 2 years left and Sox might save some money if it's straight up . I could handle Torres being RH since his D has improved and he hits for power . At least we then know all of our starting position players. Any trades from that point to fill BP and 4th OF could be minor trades or combo of trade with FA signing.

I basically don't believe anything about what's going to happen with the team no matter who writes it. No one thought the Sox would sign Benintendi but it happened. Now Hendriks name pops up and most of the speculation is that it's for cost cutting. It could be that or something else. It could be trading for prospects which could then lead to more trades to fill holes or it could be to fill holes immediately. There are holes to fill and after the off season finishes and the season starts I'm sure we will still have a hole or 2 depending on our own thoughts about which holes need filling more than others. I can't see them not wanting to add more power either in the form of a 4th OF or 2nd baseman or both. It's wise not to count on a bunch of rebound candidates for power when they didn't have a guy last year who hit 20 HR's and among the rebounds candidates are guys who are oft injured or whose chances of rebounding look slimmer every year.The payroll final numbers will determine many things. Right now that's a mystery.

I'm not understanding the recent lament over paying a premium for the amount of years involved. Isn't that the way trades usually work ? Maybe give me an example of a "straight talent" trade. If you get a guy who was worth 4.5 War last year and is Super 2 status and coming off a career year, the cost is going to be high. Maybe it wasn't even high enough. AZ. paid for Moreno's upside/control and the 2 years of Gurriel. I have no idea who got the better deal. Time will tell. If I was going to lament anything it's that Varsho would've been cheaper last year if he was available but Hahn and Co. couldn't figure out a LH good fielding OF/backup catcher with power was needed and that AZ. had plenty of good OFers in their system.

Mancini can't play CF and is basically a DH.

So what about minor invasive surgery like the kind done now for herniated discs. Not sure of the difference between a bulging disc and a herniated disc and not asking for a a full report but are these micro surgeries the kind you are talking about that people regret later ? Are you recommending epidurals in the case of herniated discs over mico-surgery ? I understand each person is different and backs are so complicated and nerve damage can severely mess with your legs . I never understood how rest or rehab helps a herniated disc. That can't un-herniate it but many have jobs and job functions that led to the problem in the 1st place and they just end up repeating that abusive cycle .

How do you know they need to cut costs ? Silly question I know but everything they've done up to this point was to fix the problems they created in 2021 and 2022. I'm not saying I believe there's a lot more room for added payroll. but there's still a lot of off season left so why be aggressive filling holes with Clevinger and Benintendi only to tear it down a week or 2 later ? They could field offers for Hendriks and keep all that info for the trade deadline if those teams still are interested and the Sox are out of it.

Right just a depth piece. Pretty sure it doesn't mean a relief pitcher is outgoing soon. Now if the Sox had spent a couple of mill on a relief pitcher then that might convince me or if they had signed Duvall just to show me any Hendriks move won't be merely the best cost cutting move you can. Make a bold statement. If you want Hendriks then bring your A game. We aren't cost cutting. ( thats the Sox stance in trade negotiating not me making a statement). Drag it out with Hendriks. No hurry. we don't need the money .

HA ! Santos isn't exactly who I had in mind. Money must be spent. But it is a step in the right direction.

Or if 3 teams are bidding on him and all making what Hahn considers to be inadequate offers what makes you confident that if JR is really looking to cut payroll that he just won't tell Hahn , "Which offer is the best as far as talent and cost savings go ?'' ANd Hahn says this one and JR says "fine take that one". The 1st round of talks should be Hahn and JR saying no to everyone. It shouldn't be done quickly and if @Chicago White Sox thinks he's going to be traded soon it doesn't match up.