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Or if 3 teams are bidding on him and all making what Hahn considers to be inadequate offers what makes you confident that if JR is really looking to cut payroll that he just won't tell Hahn , "Which offer is the best as far as talent and cost savings go ?'' ANd Hahn says this one and JR says "fine take that one". The 1st round of talks should be Hahn and JR saying no to everyone. It shouldn't be done quickly and if @Chicago White Sox thinks he's going to be traded soon it doesn't match up.

Much like poker you play the GM and owner as much as you play your hand. It's a balancing act and the fact the Hahn has sucked at his job for a long time doesn't particularly sway me that other teams aren't playing him.

We will see. You think he'll be moved soon , I don't. Now if you get McNeil and Alvarez that's another story ! lol

I thought I explained that part. It is not always simple supply and demand making trades is like playing poker. If you think you opponent has a weak hand for whatever his tells are then you have a different strategy. Jerry's tell is that he is cheap. If the other GM's know Jerry has a weak hand because he wants to cut salary the offers may not be as good because all the Sox want to do is cut salary. If JR says sorry he's unavailable right now and picks up some guys before trading Hendriks it makes his hand look stronger.

I think the Sox are still a little light in the HR department if we don't get power from Grandal or Moncada. So even though I think 2nd base should be the last thing on the shopping list I'd understand getting Escobar but not in a Hendriks trade. I'd prefer the Sox make other moves 1st to fill 4th OF and pick up a relief pitcher or 2 before a Kelly or Hendricks move.

Good question but right now as fans we are in limbo. We all suspect cost cutting is coming but why spend so much on Benintendi then ? Also in the Sox favor is that they've rectified past mistakes and are making an attempt to improve OF defense, put Eloy and Vaughn where they belong. Also they got Clevinger. They have spent but the limbo I speak of is not knowing what's next. Will it be cost cutting or will more past mistakes be rectified. Maybe Escobar is a past mistake and they know they still need more HR and more LH. Plus we heard thge reason the didnt keep Rodon was medicals too. We never know if what we hear is the actual truth. For a guy whose meds were supposed to be bad he is playing an awful lot of baseball including killing it in the Venezuelan Winter League now.

I don't know if the Sox can actually fill all their holes. It may be just me but I think 2nd base is the last thing on their list. Still need a 4th OF badly and if relief pitching is moved then we need more relief pitching. And lets face it despite the concentration on improving the roster in 2023 we do need some upper level pitching prospects badly. That should not be ignored nor put off till next year. To me trading Hendriks 1st is putting the cart before the horse. Too many teams will low ball the Sox unless they are convinced JR is going for it in 2023 and only willing to trade Hendriks for prospects if he fills the other needs 1st. Convince the other teams you are going for it in 2023 but still have an eye on future needs.

Sox have to convince teams that trading Hendriks isn't a cost cutting move. In order to do that and preserve that leverage the Sox would have to make another move 1st. So the Sox must make a move. Either sign someone like Duvall or go after some FA relief pitcher. That way it may open up better offers for Hendriks that still may end up saving money or getting a better prospect if someone like Duvall or a relief pitcher is already in the fold. Not a good idea to trade Hendriks unless you get the other pieces 1st. Then a Kelly for Escobar trade is more likely and you wouldn't have to move Hendriks. If Hendriks is moved soon then that will signal to me that it'll be a cost cutting move where they get prospects. If they get some need pieces 1st you can pay for them with Hendriks savings afterwards and still have prospects.

Eduaro's still is higher and I doubt the Sox want to take on any money especially from the Mets. Mets need to throw in $2-3M. They can afford it.

I thought that also. But I think even with guaranteed money he can still play in the minors. He's got options left I think. But it is feasible they still want to shed his salary, maybe not to the extent they paid for McCaans salary with the O's or at all if they still want Hendrik and are willing to give up Baty too. But if they part with Escobar I imagine they'd want to keep Baty. Maybe Mauricio and Dominic Hamel. But I thought any chance of a trade with the Mets went out the window after they resigned Ottavino but the discussions continued. If they wanted Kelly straight up for Escobar I'd do that if the Mets threw in a little money.

It never had any legs to me. Never thought they were a match unless Hahn was simply going to get better prospects and maybe Escobar but i didnt want Escobar or McCann especially McCaan. AT least Escobar can hit 20 bombs while he played a mediocre 2nd base.

You do know Escbar played only 2 innings at 2b in 2022.

Their Minor League pitcher of the Year was a 3rd round draft pick in his 1st full season Dominic Hamel. Sox do need pitching but he isn't close yet. Pitched better in A+ than he did in A but probably a year or 2 away. He's 23. If we're dead set on helping the Sox in 2023 , not sure how that works. Pick your poison from Escobar and McCaan and get 2 prospects ?

I really like baseball talk and how using different analytic means to enhance the strength of your argument.

Yes mistyped. Thank you.

Eww that's just disgustingly bad. Hahn trade for old veterans on the decline if I ever saw one and we take on money along with it.

I don't understand the fixation but maybe it has something to do with pitchers not thinking Grandal calls a good game and his health combined ? Zavala overachieved also ?

If they got Jansen I don't see a need for Grandal then at all do you ? Backup catcher ? Dump/Trade Zavala since he's out of options.

Maybe not but they are preparing for Perez being used more than they might like since they have signed Xavier Hernandez and Sebastian Rivero as minor league depth pieces. I just don't think it's a need now since I think it isn't a spot that needs a lot of offensive production. But Grifol is an ex catcher, Rivero was in the KC system. . Just reminds me of Collins all over again and all the faith they put in him. I think the most pressing need for this season and next is Starting pitching in the upper minors. That means prospects, they need prospects . Not sexy to talk about when the 2023 season is upcoming and still holes to fill on the 26 but it's how I feel.

I think it's pretty difficult to have great framing stats while also have great blocking ball stats and great throwing out runner stats .So probably should just accept that throwing out runners stats will decline for all catchers with the new rules .

Which is why I didn't want McCann and his 2 years even if the Mets ate significant money. The fit with the Mets was sketchy to begin with and even more so now that they've resigned Ottavino. Yes we know that the mighty Guardians will just coast to the Central title while the Sox need every break in the book to occur. But like it or not they are running with our core so I'm trying to make the best of it without contemplating the reality that the odds do not favor JR, Hahn or the players doing enough to overcome all the damage they have done.

From what I understand so far he's been withstand the rigors that Goodman from the Black Hawks is putting him through. He's been at it for a while. I know that's not much compared to catching and hitting but I'll just have to trust thatZavala and Perez will be useful. The Sox have loaded up on minor league piece for C and OF so far. Maybe that's an indication the we aren't going to try so hard to find depth though I still think a 4th OF is a definite need . Not trusting Leury for that nor any of Payton, Reyes or Hamilton.

If he ends up not being able to stay healthy, so be it, but there are plenty of other areas of need. I guess we are saying even if the Sox are going after catching we don't like it.

Certain factions believe Grandal is finished. But you have to go with Grandal. He taking up too much salary to keep adding to the position monetarily for what could end up terrible production. Just have to hope whatever he's doing in the off season works and then be free of him.

Probably nothing happening now with the Mets anyway since they just resigned Adam Ottavino for 2 year. $14.5 M.