CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Look the new rules are begging teams to add young fast LH players. The bigger bases, the shift rule changes, the pick off attempts and pitch clock rules. Yea Garrett isn't LH but he is fast and hits for power. Sure he got DFA'd but so what. Plenty of teams had turned less into more. JD Martinez, Muncy, Taylor, Justin Turner you can go on and on with guys who no one thought nothing of at one point who became something. Ok so he isn't as young as the other guys but did you see what he did in AAA and then with his 27 trial run with the Dbacks ? How can you totally dismiss his, speed , power and defense when fast young players are what made Cleveland so dynamic and the new rules are geared towards making them even more important ?

Who said anyone is trying to win a championship ? There is no winning a championship but you can turn it around quicker adding 3 young studs and finally getting some LH bats and defense in the OF to support the pitching. Every plan is a long shot at this point but why add pieces that are going to be gone in 2 years or less and cost you beacoup bucks to see if they can rebound after 3 off seasons ? It's bad enough the Sox have to do that with Moncada and wait for full healthy seasons from Eloy and Robert. Maybe those 3 young guys can stay healthy and produce too. The position player core has been a disaster. Time to start see if those 3 guys can be core pieces. Better defense, more power, faster, better balanced lineup, wayyyy cheaper OF depth. I could've sworn that's what we wanted.

Or they may not or think they can be competitive with a plan like mine 3 young OF all ready to play in the Majors. 2 of them being LH all with power and defense. Spend what little money you have on pitching and trade Hendriks in an Outman deal. Go to war with a young speedy powerful OF while adding 2 LHH lots of defense and lots of power. And best of all young bashers who can become core pieces quickly.

It wouldn't even be good money after bad. It'd be bad money after bad. I'd rather take my chances with the 3 AAA OF's. Colas, people here like Outman, and Garret should be given a shot. They will be flying around the OF ,bashing HR's ,flying around the bases and bringing energy to this team which is what Grifol wants. Defense, power, base running and best of all 6 years apiece for all 3 of them ! Outman and Garrett had great AAA seasons. Colas looks pretty ready to go himself. 2 lefty bashers and 1 RH basher who play good defense too. It's what we've been wanting for 2 years and now people want a $10M retread instead because he's a "name" player with an MVP in 2019? That's $2.16M for 3 guys who run and hit and defend right up there with Bellinger without the age or accumulated injuries or salary vs. $10M for 1 guy who's had 3 straight blah seasons since he blew out his shoulder. They also have a chance to out perform Bellinger with the bat too. I don't get it.

I thought the lane you picked was a rebuild ? If you're going to add question marks it may as well be cheap rookie question marks who can get better over time without costing the team $10M to add to the mess of Moncada, Grandal, Giolito and Eloy staying healthy and having much better seasons. If Outman plays as much as Bellinger he'll have as much WAR and so will Colas and possibly Garrett too and all 3 of those guys added together will be about 15% of what Bellinger will cost plus 18 years of them vs. 1 or 2 years of Bellinger and his crap shoulder ? You have to be as high as Bellinger to not start adding to the core with fleet defenders with good arms and powerful bats. Anyone wanting to add Bellinger must be in love with Moncada too. They have about then same chance of hitting like they once did. Aren't the Sox already wasting enough money on Grandal and Moncada to keep throwing that kind of money at someone the Dodgers couldn't fix ?

Which is mainly the reason why the Mets picked up the 2 DFA guys from the Marlins. . From MLBTR: Both Hernandez and Brigham have a minor league option year remaining — two, in Brigham’s case — and therefore shouldn’t be seen as locks to occupy a spot on next year’s Opening Day staff for the Mets. That said, Hernandez has four-plus year of MLB experience and Brigham has three, so they’re a bit more seasoned than the garden-variety DFA pickup. .Hahn still napping. BP needs guys with options. OF /team needs defense, power and depth and its out there with Garrett and Aquino. Wake up Ricky !

I'd trade Hendriks for Outman. No idea if that's fair or even if the Dodgers will consider trading Outman.

I'm operating on the assumption they won't spend squat and they'll be dumpster diving all season or making trades. They're already pinning their hopes on guys rebounding . To add another rebound candidate doesnt make any sense to for so much money. If the Dodgers couldn't get Bellinger fixed in 3 season I'm not going to count on the Sox to do it when they can't get there own guys fixed. Spend on starting pitching with the limited funds available. Hope the Dodgers will trade Outman for Hendriks and let Colas, Outman Robert and maybe Stone Garrett patrol the OF. Pretty good defense there and nice chance for some rookie production . Can't see any hope for much else. Aquino strictly a depth piece. As you noted he had 6 HRs in Sept/Oct. but who on the Sox hit 6 HR's in Sept/Oct. Did Eloy ? Of course my outfield hinges on prying Outman away from the Dodgers which may not be possible. Aquino would be AAA depth but if you can find a LHB with his kind of power and defense already on the scrap heap you are welcome to try since he is RH corner OF. He's definitely not a CF but Garrett and Colas can play CF in case of injury as can Cespedes I suppose if you had to.

And what do you do about the rest of the holes after you blown your wad on yet another guy you'd be expecting a comeback from ? You're spending $10M on Bellinger when the Sox might only spend $15M ?

Weren't you one of the guys telling me what a great year Kopech was going to have in 2022 as a replacement for Rodon and I told you to cool your jets because he's a 1st year starting pitcher and was going to have his ups and downs ?

They can get much better defensively in the OF with upside for offense if they just work out some deals with DFA' guys and find out if Outman is available. With better OF defense this team at least won't be losing so many games defensively and that works better in close games than terrible defense. If you go with Colas, see if you can trade for Outman and bring in the DFA guys Garrett and Aquino. That's adding a good amount of OF defense 2 LH bats and 2 right handed bat all with power, defense and depth. Colas, Outman and Garrett could all be ROY candidates for pretty cheap depending on if the Dodgers are willing to move him for perhaps Hendriks. Of course they could all bomb too but at least if they do bomb offensively, which I honestly doubt, at least you're going to get pretty good defense and occasional HR's. The reason all these guys are available is because they have some obvious holes in their games but defense and big time power are not among their holes. Eloy can then be a full time DH and hopefully stay healthy and then you also have more full time big time power in the lineup a lot more. Vaughn at 1st might also hit for more power. Hahn has to show a pulse soon though . Spend the little money you have on pitching. Trade Hendriks., If you want to take your chances with Adam Frazier at 2nd base thats ok if getting him doesn't interfere with most of your money spent on pitching. But otherwise its Romy or Sosa. Of course a few guys from the 40 might be removed in trading for the DFA guys but I like starting with upgrading the defense and power with younger guys for cheap and spending money on pitching while subtracting the money from the BP . That will hurt the BP some but Lopez to closer and work on the middle relief depth by trolling for cheap upgrades there also. Not exciting but it's what needs to be done. Plug defensive holes in the OF, get younger, hope the core gets larger with Colas and Outman and perhaps Garrett. Hit more HR's, allocate funds away from the pen and into starting pitching and pray for bounce backs, health and a Cease-like progression from Kopech.

There was general agreement here and yes among the Sox management but we see how that turned out. The real Vaughn as a fielder showed up which was what I was saying would happen all along. He never had the speed, experience or athleticism required to play a competent OF. He was only competent that year because he had a high number of chances that a lot of OF also wouldn't have gotten to but once the ball started finding him more his total lack of range and speed showed it's true colors. Sometimes you have to see beyond the numbers in a limited sample size of defensive chances. No one was ever hesitant to say what terrible fielders , Sheets or Burger are because they weren't the golden boys of hype like Vaughn was and continues to be with some. Now after a terrible year of defense and faltering at the end of the season again people are finally figuring out what was in front of their noses the whole time. I'm not anti- Vaughn by any stretch . I love that he became a much better hitter and I advocated the departure of our best , most consistent player to see how Vaughn does playing 1st base. But he had better start getting close to 30 or 35 HR's a year as an undersized 1st basement or he'll never be a "great hitter" because the great hitter hype is still rolling.

Crazy talk . He'd kill to get a contract like that. He'll be lucky to get a 2 year $20M contract. There's only so much money anyone wants to pay for guys who can field and run and hit a few HR's like Bellinger and Gallo while batting in the low .200s. Arestides Aquino can do that stuff and I don't see anyone clamoring for him. Hell if Aquino had had as many AB's as Bellinger he probably hits twice as many HR's as Bellinger. He might not be LHH, CF like Bellinger or run like Bellinger but has a hell of an arm and plays a nice corner OF and won't cost squat. His numbers are similar to Moncada. How do you feel about Moncada ? Bellinger had a higher fWar than Moncada basically due to more playing time in CF and a being a better base runner. I know we all want to discuss bigger possibilities than DFA guys but even a top nontender expecting a $10M contract is beyond the Sox grasp. They have too many holes to fill and they are going to have to find much cheaper options. Which is why I've been recommending DFA guys and trades for AAA guys like Outman. The new rebuild or hard retool, whatever you want to call, it should be starting but it isn't. Hahn is going to keep pretending they are competing to draw the casual fan into attending but it will result in ultimate failure. They could bounce back for a year if they stay healthy and our Bellinger (Moncada) can get his act together but they fucked around for 2 years skipping the finalization part of the rebuild with inept executives in charge. Now it's on life support.

You move along. How often do you have to be told that defensive stats are not stats that can do used in short sample sizes One year of stats is never enough. Your ignorance is astounding. Your baseball knowledge terrible.

You bore me .

Can't see it. But we'll learn today if he is non-tendered. If he is non tendered you think the Sox sign him and for how much. Not sure I'd even spend over $5M for the guy when the budget is so tight .

LOL so you decide to argue it figures. Remember all those times you were arguing that Vaughn was a perfectly capable LF and I was arguing with the whole board who were buying the hype like you . ANd I told you and everyone else Vaughn was not nor ever was he going to be a good OF . Unlike you I never said a bad defensive player was competent because I use my eyes without bias. I said he would work to improve because he's that kind of person unlike a few more talented guys the Sox have. I practically said Burger was DFA material by trading him for a DFA'd guy. I'm not sure what exactly expect here but you decided to argue so here we are.

I like it. You more or less worked within the budget. Garrett for Romy is plausible. I've recently been saying Burger or Yolbert so Romy fits right in among who it might take to get Garrett. I always applaud effort for the time it takes to do what you and Bmags did. I just hope Az. isn't looking for pitching for Garrett. Mets just picked up 2 pitchers who were DFA'd in a trade with Marlins. Sox need pitching too. Hahn still sucking his thumb in the fetal position when he could be building depth now for scraps. Scraps for scraps let's go get some more useful pieces.

Well there's the start of a team working out a trade with some DFA guys. Come on Sox do something. Stone Garrett for Burger or Yolbert Sanchez. Make it happen.

No sense arguing about it. Players get better or they don't which is why I'd be willing to part with him for a OF guy who got DFA'd

All at a minimal cost depending on how willing the Dodgers are to part with Outman and who they give up to AZ. to get 1st crack at Garrett. But that's a lot of mid 20's guys with little MLB experience but defensively they would be a huge improvement in the OF and on the bases with a lot of offensive upside. There'd be plenty of K's but also plenty of HR's. I'd also be checking into Arestides Aquino. He's had his moment in the sun but another big power hitter who can play defense with a great arm who was DFA'd by the Reds. He's been with them his whole career and maybe a change of scenery helps him. Even during the rebuild days the Sox came up with Palka who hit 27 HRs in 2018 . Problem was Palka couldn't field a lick. Outman, Colas and Garrett have the potential to be ROY type guys. Legit 4-5 WAR potential given their power and defensive abilities. You don't often have a shot at those type of guys. Usually it's the Palka lumbering types I remember the Sox always picking up during the rebuild. Speed with the new pickoff rules and pitch clock, defense, youth, running and gunning base runners down . Guys flying around instead of plodding. It would be an exciting OF defensively and offensively.

Well he'll either be traded or get better with the glove. The guy is a bulldog coming back from his injuries. He'll certainly work at getting better defensively. If the Sox are working out a trade now for Stone Garrett, I can see them offering Burger or Sanchez . One AAA guy for the other. Burger just a little younger.

You have to wait a year on both of them. Thomas shows promise just as Vaughn does. Thomas intrinsically more valuable by positional defense. I am curious how Vaughn will do once put where he belongs and 2 years of facing MLB pitching. I'll minimize any effect of a new manager and hitting coach . Besides it's doubtful AZ is entertaining trading their growing young core of LHH OF's unless it's for pitching.

I wouldn't make absolute statements like that. They could easily fall out of the top 10. What were they 7th? If their payroll is $10M less this year and other teams step up in free agency it's easy to see the Sox falling into the 10-12 range in payroll. JR didnt get playoff money. and the Sox look terrible. It's doubtful JR feels any remorse about fucking up the Sox by the constant employment of incompetents . JR is a bottom line guy. No playoffs, no payoff. No money at the trade deadline last year and less money towards payroll this year than last year. They aren't serious about contending now. Serious would mean firing Hahn and modernizing and creating jobs in growing behind the scenes departments. If that didn't happen when the rebuild started it's not happening now.

You don't run across guys like him often on the DFA list. He's got legit speed , defense and power. Would be tremendous depth piece for the Sox as a 4th OF defensive replacement and power PH off the bench with a chance to start if someone goes down and show off his skills .Still has rookie status , options and all his eligibility. Definitely a pull hitter type but he did have a couple of singles through the right side and a double down the RF line that almost got out. But for the most part he pulls the ball for doubles and HRs. 11 of his 1st 20 hits with the Dbacks were for extra bases which is why he had that .538 SLG and 131 wRC+ in his 27 games with the Dbacks. 83 percentile in Sprint speed. He'll be 27 in 5 days so maybe he can celebrate it as a White Sox !