CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Some people only know what they don't like and can't tell you what they like until they see what direction the wind is blowing. They only know your plan won't work but are too afraid to submit a plan of their own . That's why we keep seeing buy that or that FA but when told there's no money they tell us Grifol is the key or I don't believe they wont spend more . The Sox have to deconstruct somewhere because they fucked up the construction and if you deconstruct fully welcome to hoping Jerry dies and things get better ? That's just pitiful.

Sorry if I am among those who don't want to enter Jerry's Inferno just yet. So you don't believe Kopech, Lynn, and Giolito can all be better in 2023 ? You don't think Clevinger can be good ? Same question of Eloy, Moncada, Grandal, Anderson, Robert, Vaughn . You don't believer Colas will be worth morein 2022 than the combined -.3 WAR that Vaughn and Sheets put up as OF's in 2021 ? Of those 11 guys I just mentioned how many would it take rebounding or playing significantly enough for the Sox to make the playoffs ?

Do I think the Sox have a legit shot at the playoffs ? Maybe. Would I like to get young players ? Yes DO I think the core can rebound enough to get excited about the Sox again and give us a shot at the playoffs. Yes. DO I think money and players from a Hendriks trade can help the Sox too ? Yes Whats your plan? Should we just say rebuild now and end all discussion for those who want to think there's a road where things go well for 2023 ?

Wow you left out a lot of stuff I've bragged about . And I wasn't referencing you at all in regards to switching teams, just the general stuff I've been reading. I told Sacamano to trust my baseball acumen and he asked me why so I told him. My arguments are always about baseball. I rarely use the words stupid or ridiculous to demean anothers' position. We'll find out later if we are right or wrong. I am very humble when I write my opinions and do my best to back it up with facts or I don't use catch phrases like "its really just that simple to make it seem like my opinion is just so simple and obvious it has to be right." Lets take Vaughn for instance . Do you understand how hard it is around here to go against the grain of popular opinion and continually bash Vaughn for his defense and his hitting during his 1st year playing when the Vaughn hype train was full steam ahead ? He's had a minus WAR in his career . I know full well he's been playing out of position and that's never been his fault but he hasn't helped the team win. Most people just back down and figure why take the abuse ? Now that he'll be at 1st he can help the team win and I expect him to now. If i put myself out there with unpopular opinions which I often do and take the criticism for those opinions am I supposed to be humble and let those same bashers off the hook when they are wrong ? They didn't cut me any slack and I'll return it right back. I'm not a turn the other cheek guy. I'm actually thrilled that I see other people using James Outman in trade ideas with the Dodgers. I feel I am slightly responsible for that. I don't know if he'll ever be any good. All I'm doing is making recommendations based on the what I think is happening with the Sox. I don't waste my typing on speculating on FA's unless I think there's a chance that's a direction the Sox will go and I didn't think that (Thanks to Feagan) except for maybe one pitcher and that already happened. Many don't see a path to the playoffs if you trade Hendriks. I do but it's all up to how the core plays and their health. I like Grifol but I don't think he's a miracle worker. But if he gets the credit if the Sox make the playoffs that's fine by me but Id be more likely to think it's coincidence if, say, Robert and Eloy both play 140 games and have career years, Gio bounces back and Kopech emerges, Lynn stays healthy and does his usual stuff, Anderson becomes 4 WAR Anderson again. Moncada becomes 4 WAR Moncada, Vaughn can actually accrue positive WAR now that he'll play where he's supposed to and Colas is the real deal right away.

I'll blame injuries to the core players almost more than anything. In 2020 did you think Abreu would still be the best player the Sox had in 2022 ? There were 4 guys who should have surpassed him by now yet didn't. I don't even know how you quantify that the players hated the manager . Did it cause them to get injured make them lose their desire to win and make money ? Did they get fat and lazy and not give a damn because of TLR. Did TLR make Vaughn and Sheets play the OF? It happened under his watch but why didn't the Sox get more OFers or get more LH position players ? TLR didn't cause the terrible farm system and lack of depth or the fact the Sox didn't have quality international signings or suck at player development. TLR wasn't the guy who let the same FO in charge of a rebuild that mired them in mediocrity in the 1st place then sabotaged that plan by hiring TLR. You're believing TLR is the root when he is just a branch.

A Hendricks deal would not signal a rebuild. It could eventually but not for 2023 when the Sox could rebound as a franchise under the right set of circumstances.

So because JR signed Albert Belle once it's like the Sox to sign players to the richest contract in baseball history ?

Everyone who posts their opinion thinks it's the right path. I'm no different. I'm not the only one who takes the time to pat himself on the back. I've been here too long to think I'm among the humble but you'll never find me saying I'll switch to another team and no matter how much I think the organization is dysfunctional I do always have a modicum of hope if they'd just do as I say! ? That's a joke !!!

This is a bit pessimistic. And Lord knows I've contributed to the pessimism around here. However with every bashing of Hahn, JR, and the whole backwards organization I do attempt to construct a silver lining scenario. So while I agreed that piecemeal is what they may do. I also think with a bit of health and progress luck and the right Hendricks trade they can win the division this year or more. We really have no idea what he might bring back in trade or how bad his loss would hurt which is where I thought you were overly pessimistic. Keep talking to the Dodgers. Hope they find an OFer they like but have trouble finding a closer. The Diaz and Jansen signings raise Hendrik's value.Maybe a larger trade can be made . I've often argued the Sox were not as talented as we think and that argument has always been based on results .I do think they are potentially talented but injuries and malaise have combined the last 2 years to rob them of showcasing that potential. The silver lining is maybe this could be the year it happens. The last 1.5 years has been a series of disasters but there is a light at the end of the tunnel but it's a winding track through the tunnel so the light is often not in view.

Uh huh just like a certain someone around here thinks Grifol will make a big impact who was also the most outspoken from the second LaRussa was hired. JR should always be public enemy No. 1 followed in no particular order by Hahn ,TLR ,players . I also believe the rebuild was headed for disaster with or without TLR. He may have just accelerated the timer of that bomb.

Ancient history. Can we at least stick to Hahn's tenure when discussing "unlike Sox moves". I'm not sure even with the new rules anyone is going to steal 100 bases again but it makes it more likely. Plus Pods was coming off a 70 stolen bases year in 2004.

if you read what I said carefully you'll see I didnt say all 3 things exploit the new rules. I said those are the types of guys I want. Then I said exploit the new rules which is actually the speed, stolen bases and LH part.

With visions of sugar plums dancing in his head ?

I'm thinking "unlike the Sox" means the kind of moves we would call rebuild moves or what I rather call Tampa Bay type moves, vets for youth but more like MLB ready youth ,speed,defense, LH. Exploit those new rules. MLB wants stealing bases back in the game so let's go !

It's 1 year . It's all tilted in the player side. Guys like Bellinger are praying to return to 3 WaR status just to use that team for that end. It does nothing for the Sox unless you get guys just like him already on the Sox to rebound just as much as they need Bellinger to rebound. It's a crapshoot on top of 8 crapshoots already. Id rather just find young OFers with upside and the same type of speed and defense that Bellinger provides. That's where the majority of his War is coming from anyway. It's sure not his hitting. Sox just have to keep an eye on trades and see how the OF situations around the league shake out. I already suggested DFA guys that apparently no one wanted except the Yomiuri Giants and the Nationals, but Hahn went with Payton. This is where are are. Which is why I was making those suggestions in the 1st place. Pining over losing Bellinger and paying 17.5M for him for a year seems like wasted wishes.

It's an overpay for both of them . You can get AAAA players who gave you what Engel did for MLB minimum but I'll agree that its a very large overpay for Bellinger.

6 of one half dozen of the other. Both past their glory years although Engel didn't have any glory years.

Nothing is written in stone. It's early December. I could care less if we lose a year of control for Colas. This is the last year of the perceived contention window unless the Sox can win the division. They're losing too much starting pitching in 2024. Put the best player on the field from day one. Anything less than that and it's not giving the team every chance to win. We all talk about how JR has no commitment to wining then as fans we turn around and say let's give up 15+ games without a guy who can be one of our best players and play some bum in the OF for that time. 8 of 12 playoff teams are usually fighting for a shot at the playoff in the last couple of weeks. That means you win or lose on the margins. Why deliberately not play healthy players when injuries rob you all season long ? 15 games lost 10 times a year means a lot on the margins. If we add up all the 15 game losses to injuries last year how much time in the margins did the Sox lose ? I'll just guess but I'm thinking there were at least 25 times 15 games were lost when you add up the injuries to Robert, Lynn, Anderson, Eloy and others who could have made significant contributions. 25 x 15 is 375 games lost on the margins on a team without depth is just a terrible waste.

This couldn't have worked out any better. Sox didnt pay for him and the cubs did. Crash and burn cubs.

That would depend on how he ended up playing. For example. I liked the Steele Walker for Mazara trade. Figured a minor leaguer for an established still young player with LH power was not a typical Hahn move. Took a lot of guff for supporting that trade but in the end it's been a nothing burger . Much ado about nothing. Just the typical overzealous diatribes for Sox prospects.

I did a deep dive on that on my many conversations with @ptatc when we were discussing Rodon's injury history when I wanted to resign along with many to be fair didn't want him. His new and improved mechanics were always a big part of why i wanted to keep him. Of course I understood that there is repaired damage to his arm which would always make him a risky proposition but you either use one thing or the other to draw conclusions and I went with the new Rodon rather than the old model. I never liked the idea of casually tossing a guy aside who had just demonstrated he was among the best in baseball born from his work with Katz. His past conditioning issues never really bothered me. Once you find a formula for success and the promise of big money I didn't think it would be an issue.

I've vacillated on moving Gio. Probably need to just trust he'll rebound in a contract year. A lot of players do. We're already knee deep in guys who are always injured or having trouble with consistency so what's one more? You can see how he and the rest of the underachievers do. Gio can be good but the team bad so then you can move him at the trade deadline. If both are good you play it out. I will put a lil faith in our starting pitching and some better OF defense and team speed. That's what baseball is promoting with the new rules. Take advantage of it. If the Sox save some money put it towards the bullpen. I know right. But you can reinvest half of Hendricks salary on a couple BP guys or just one. Tampa Bay contends a lot and they always are selling off pieces. It has to start somewhere. Just need to start piling up the pieces now and see if we can get some career health and career years from Eloy and Robert. Do you all realize how huge that would be and how exciting to see Eloy settle in at DH and Robert doing his thing in LF saving his legs just a bit to use them terrorizing pitchers on the bases ! Both of them destroying balls over the fences, showing Colas and Outman how it's done as they become the young left handed savages ! It would be a very exciting team born from the depths of our despair.

Lol that is Billy Bob Thornton ?

Every year is it's own animal. Because the Sox couldn't hit they had a lot of low scoring close games. We all knew the success or failure of the rebuild was built around about 4 guys all becoming better than Abreu as he aged and not one of them has. Pray they step up and we get a way better defensive OF to help the pitchers too. Every franchise that doesn't spend has to rely on young talent. Sox don't have enough of that. Hendriks can help fix that, not that I think Hahn is capable of fixing much of anything.

Nah it doesn't require either. Even you thought Pepiot and Outman could be done. That would give the Sox a real nice defensive OF if you just lose Hendriks and 1 prospect . That gives you an OF you can play every day and 2 LHH in the lineup for a long time. I know you don't want Eloy, Sheets or Vaughn in the OF and neither do I. I'm painting a rosy picture but if you really thought they were going spend much more you need to get your head examined. JR's got in your head too. Gave you someone so bad that people are talking about Grifol like he can resurrect 8 careers. Not going to happen.