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It's more the hip injury and constant injuries that hurt his value than anything else. He's always been a slow starter to start the season in much the same way Abreu was. Coming back from the injury was essentially a 2nd start to his season. It's a 64 AB sample size . 12 hits 7 of them HRs. His last 5 hits have all been HRs. He must not want to run the bases . He's not running hard to 1st when he hits ground balls. I'd keep an eye on his baseball savant page and see if his sprint speed drops into the low 80s or even into the 70s the next month or more if he's not traded. I think it will just based on how much effort he may not want to give just yet. He needs to become a corner OF. I suggested that at least a year ago if not more but he started the season in the low 90s ( faster than 90+ % of players) in sprint speed but he just can't push himself to that level without getting hurt now. Not being a CF anymore would hurt his value too so I don't expect to see him in RF any time soon but a team who wants him, who already has a good defensive CF with a decent bat, could switch him.

Either has his fielding though also.

You always have to push ahead to build a team especially when you're a terrible team. Where are the other good players going to come from ? Selfishly Id love to keep Crochet but realistically when you're dealing with often injured players like Robert and Crochet you keep waiting and expecting those injuries to keep them off the field just as they have with Moncada, Eloy and Robert. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and strive towards future wins rather than a few moments of titillation watching a few guys doing great with nothing else around them. The Sox aren't going to spend there way back into contention that's for damn sure. Strike for those future wins while the iron is hot.

That's the whole history of the franchise but every so often they rise above it. At least we have some good pitching prospects. Im skeptical that Robert and Crochet will be traded by the deadline so the bats we need may not be coming soon but we'll see what happens .

Cheer up Trev. Thing will turn around. If you have trouble with the curves that life throws at you just be ready for the fat fastball down the middle when life throws you that.

I don't drink really . When I have a drink it's one and done so that was the one .

Its also worth mentioning that he just got done arguing that the Eloy, Moncada and Robert injuries that @WestEddybrought up as a reason for an unexpected worse record for 2024 than it turned out could've been anticipated because they alway get injured. Can't play both sides of the fence regarding injuries and trades.

I woke up and saw I fell asleep with half a big glass of rum and coke so I had to finish it. I'm definitely not going to stay up another 4 hours?

I know it's not Sox related. They aren't worth losing sleep over.Im on my 3rd edit of the post you quoted me on ?

? I was asleep I woke up.

This is the kind of thinking that ends up getting you nothing when u really really need to capitalize on your talent because you don't have much of it. His last year hurt his value. Hold him and he underperforms or gets hit by a line drive and the package gets severely lessened. What you call running scared is at least you're taking advantage of his top availability and his health while he still has it. At least his Cy Youngish type year was still fresh but was closing in on its expiration date because of his 2023. You start off 2024 with under performance and now 2022 really starts looking like an outlier. If you're basing taking less than we should have on personal opinion so be it but I didn't see a lot of criticism of the trade anywhere but here. Look what we thought about the Burnes package. We laughed at Ortiz as a decent piece in a Cease trade. That trade got criticized much more harshly because Burnes had a longer track record of success. Didn't we have a poll here grading the Cease trade ? I mean if you want to support your opinion with some well known analyst criticizing the trade similar to your opinion feel free. I'll listen. Can't remember the grades in the poll but plenty were pissed we weren't getting bats and despite the pitcher of the year award for Thorpe not many were impressed with his stuff until the initial backlash got backlashed back by people actually doing some research into Thorpe, Iritate and Zavala. Hey and Thorpe and Iriarte didn't suck coming into our system. Zavala hasn't been all that but younger equals more volatile but pretty decent upside and yada about development not linear . Treating the Cease trade as running scared I could characterized holding him into the season as reckless. But of course you now have the benefit of seeing the results of his 2024. You put him back on the mound for the 2024 White Sox it could have turned out real bad. Just because he is pitching well for San Diego on the west coast on a much better team does not mean he'd get the same results playing here on a terrible team. Also at the time which once again is hindsight the Sox didn't have the luxury of knowing Crochet would turn into a unicorn, Fedde would be pretty darn good and there would be much rejoicing about our pitching prospects in the minors. At the time of the trade they felt they still needed pitching.

Wow there are a lot of stories out there proposing Robert , Jr to the Phillies.

LFG !!!

But you still care or else you wouldn't be here. So we know more things go wrong than go right with prospects. That's a given. Reinsdorf is still here. Check. There are plenty of fans who see Crochet,Fedde and Robert and want to build around them. They see the last performances of Cannon and Thorpe and think the Starting pitching staff isn't that far away. Schultz still maybe 1-4 years away depending if his arm holds up. The same can be said of all the AA pitchers. There is a lot of rebuild and we can't trust this organization fatigue out there .They always shoot themselves in the foot. JR won't change. I fully get that. I've been a very harsh critic of JR. I'm known as a Getz stan because I defend Getz by saying can we please remember who is the puppeteer and who is the puppet once in a while. Pretty please ? I don't usually bother with any fire Grifol stuff because when JR wants to cut the budget the fired are always more expensive than the replacements and if JR can save 500K by not firing Grifol he will. He's always been pennywise and pound foolish when it comes to investing in the team. He's a real estate guy. If he keeps the purchase he made in reasonable shape the value goes up. It won't be appreciatively higher if he had been spending a billion more dollars on players salaries and infrastructure over the past 40+ years. Individual players are volatile short term assets. Even if he had spent a billion more on those things over those years would the franchise be worth more ? Possibly but it's not a sure thing . JR cares about ROI ( return on investment) he does not care about ROY ( ok u know). Why pay for the best stuff when even if you do how often do you win a World Series ? As fans our hearts are broken most of the time anyway either by perpetually losing, being stuck in the middle or even if management cares about winning you get so close and fail most of the time in the end. How often have the Dodgers and Yankees won the World Series in 20 years ? ( I should've researched this but I'm winging it) maybe once each ? The same as the Sox. So while fans of those teams get an entertaining product year after year and get to watch multitudes of superstars their fans are heartbroken at the end of the season just as much as we are before most seasons start. Basically we have a lot more to complain about but, fans being fans ,if they are heartbroken at the end they usually find reasons to blame someone who they think failed them along the way . I already know my fate is to be heartbroken one way or the other so while I pay attention to the minutiae I don't get too wrapped up in it. My perspective is wider. I'm terrible for a message board because all I basically keep saying is why judge so quickly? Be patient . You can't judge trades for years. Give the guy a chance . Development isn't linear, what's all the fuss about ? Relax, chill out , mind your blood pressure, why so negative ? In the end it doesn't even matter. But we have to fill the void doing something before the end ! Let's try not to tear each other apart while we discuss all the minutiae that, in the end it doesn't even matter . Word to Linkin' Park.

I don't know if it was part of the game plan or the Sox over all plan for Crochet but it appears he didn't throw 1 slider tonight. Mostly fastball's and some cutters and 1 changeup.

He said sarcastically.

A win !!!

?

He saying from the amount of inning s he has now that a GM wanting him for this season to make a deep playoff run he'd likely have to pitch 200 innings this year and that's even more unlikely than the 100 he's at or approaching.

It's not like me but BP ERA above 12 against the M's this series. Sox not adding on to the lead . I'll gladly eat crow but BP is the least of my concerns.

I don't think that true. I railed about how they handled Rodon in 2021 and most people her didn't care because winning was more important. I think they're keeping a very watching eye on Crochet. It may not look like it tonight but I think if Crochet is honest about how his arm is feeling they'll pull the plug even if it means not trading him at the deadline if it happens before then.

Well here we are again. Starting pitching did great and with a lead entering the 8th inning. Put your money on the Mariners now.?

Cease's value was lowered by his so so year but still got a nice return for him. Crochet for as good as he has looked has no track record of continuous starting pitching,only 2.5 months worth. Nothing in the minors. I know you like to point out that we were all skeptical but there was good reason for it. You can't predict what a unicorn he's been for these 2.5 months. It's pretty unheard of what he's doing right now. Give him credit and credit the new regime for helping him get to where he is right now.

You can be both. Proactive things that have been great (caveat : so far) getting Fedde and making Crochet a starter.Bringing in Bannister. There are good things happening if people would stop focusing on the bad vs really bad 2024 team as if it was some kind of surprise. Too many people thinking all the roster churning is some big indictment of Getz . It just your normal rearrangement of minor pieces . Yes it sucks the guys who got hurt get hurt often because being healthy would've helped but they were untradeable before and they are still untradeable. You want to say something about little pieces doing better in other places and ignore how well some of the trade acquisitions on the pitching side are flourishing in our system right now that's your prerogative .

I was reading through the Crochet is being converted to a starter thread that got bumped recently and realized that on Jan. 10, 2024 I was telling everyone that this year is going to suck. News flash right ? Almost everyone knew that but very few could've predicted just how bad. I'm sure there's a prediction poll and someone may have predicted 110+ losses but it sure wasn't me. But what I also was saying back then was this is a rebuild and the goal was not to compete but to trade as many of the short term contracts as possible and bring more talent into the organization. Turn one man's trash into another man's treasure. That's a tough gig and one likely to fail .Trash usually remains trash. But if you've been paying attention things are not as bleak as they seem if you pause long enough from trashing the 2024 team there some very positive developments. The only reason why I never was rooting for worst record ever was because an unexpected amount of wins would mean some of the dumpster dives and some of the holdovers from previous seasons would be doing well. I just watched 2 of our pitching prospects and Eric Fedde pitch their asses off on the road with Crochet going today. The pessimist in me says those 2 games could be the best starts of Cannon 's and Thorpe's careers for all we know and Fedde could implode and Crochet arm blow up all before the trade deadline but for right now things are looking up. Crochet has been way better than anyone could've predicted. Fedde too. If both get traded those 2 alone could bring it multiple high upside bats. Throw in if they trade Robert, Jr. and that's more high end talent. Speaking of talent and luck. Holy f*** the Sox have got a lot of pitchers in the minors doing really well. Thorpe gets promoted and they replace him with freaking Albert Schweitzer and he proceeds to pitch 7 outstanding innings in his very 1st AA start after rising from the dead. If you're a reader of the minor league threads you may have seen a tweet about how the Sox have revamped things and making the pitching development more individualized and it seems to be working. I don't know if Bannister or Getz or if it was some big pow wow of minds that came to this conclusion but so far so good. Plus a lot of those arms are staying very healthy. Crochet's body is bigger and stronger and he looks incredibly strong still. We haven't seen any signs of fatigue yet. He's really taken to a starting pitchers routine extremely well. Cannon and Thorpe look like pitchers who actually know how to attack hitters. Thorpe knows his stuff and plan of attack against RH and LH hitting so well he was shaking off Maldonado's famous fingers. So I am hoping that the glimmer of light I see at the end of the tunnel is actually a ray of hope and not another train barreling in our direction to obliterate the the run of good fortune and progress we have seen. After all Jerry Reinsdorf is still the guy in charge.