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I dont understand you Lip. That 25 year period from 1981-2006 you say earned JR the benefit of the doubt. Why ? He's a big market owner playing in a division with small market teams. How many years during that time did the Sox win playoffs rounds ? 1 year. Thats it . 2005 won all 3 rounds to win the World Series. Reinsdorf is the carrot dangler by his own admission. Anyone working under him has had their hands tied behind their backs because of his meddling. Your tirade about Getz is especially troubling. Were there politics involved in hiring Getz? Probably but all JR saw was a cheap, inexperience option who would have to work under him while he was in estate planning mode and stripping down the Sox for his eventual successor to help pay off debts so his sons could make as much as possible after he died and the sale to the Ishbia's becomes final. I highly doubt Getz held much sway over JR. Any politicing Getz did JR probably wanted to stay in house , hire cheap and inexperienced all along. Do you honestly think any GM hired by JR could have not sucked ? Seriously under the circumstances with JR, Hahn and Williams in charge do you think Getz had any real decision making power before he became GM ? After he became GM has he got any money to alter the 26 man roster drastically in any way ? Some would say yes he drastically altered in 2024 but the majority of the damage was already done before he was named GM. Many of the changes he's made are mostly new hires for modernizing communication, culture and player development which can be done with funds that previously would be put into player payroll which is why player development has sucked under JR without any organisational philosophy reflected in the people you hire. What Getz has done to modernize may not be felt for years in regards to reestablishing international ties to the DR and Asia. All this is being done for the new owner's benefit and to establish a sound structural base and the future success of the franchise. The Crochet trade so far is working out very well. The Rule 5 draft last year might be the best one in it's history . They're using their new tools and hires to help with mechanics and Colson Montgomery & Crochet were 2 prime examples. If Getz sucks because he was put in a no win situation and he hasnt put the Sox in the playoffs in his 2 full years as GM of a franchise that was in a coma when he was hired then so be it. But now the patient is no longer in a coma and and will have a new "Steward" soon to nurse it back to full health. I've said it before but most podcasters doing Sox content do not continue to have the jaded, jaundiced viewpoint that you and others here on Tox-Talk do towards Getz. He's making an honest effort with pitiful resources to put the franchise in a position to do some good even if he gets fired under new Stewardship. Why aren't you on any of these podcasts ? You're not an unknown. Why aren't these podcasters contributing members on Tox-Talk ? Sox fans belittle the Sox more and better than any Cub fans do. James Fox used to contribute more than he does now because he's usually pretty fair but I think he's found it increasingly difficult to say much of anything positive because of backlash against it here. If I'm wrong maybe he'll say so.

I don't think there will be any multi year deals signed this year with the Sox. It would surprise me if there was one.

Way too late for that. That was just JR stating the rules of supply/demand. He never said he was ever going to pay top market value for top players.

Youre easily one of my favorite posters. Your opinions are always spot on and you probably hold your tongue on a lot of the BS you read here. I'm too much of a Sox supporter to see Sox fans constantly trashing the team like this was a Cubs forum. While I don 't buy into the Sox /Cubs fans fighting I do acknowledge the animosity is there. I understand there's a lot to be critical of but the amount of butt hurt has far surpassed anything I thought grown men could cry about over a baseball team . It's like a custody battle , just irrational biases against something you once professed love for but will coming crawling back to eventually. Sox podcasters and national media are more fair. I just saw a Baseball America Podcast with JJ Cooper & Geoff Pontes pontificating over the state of the Sox rebuild. And while they arent sure who will be part of the core they they were as fair as possible on seeing the youngsters flaws and what could derail or propel them forward. Funny thing was I dont think they mentioned the Ishbia's coming ownership which is perhaps the biggest reason to think the Sox finally could have an owner willing to play with the big boys. Jj Cooper thought Getz was really trying to modernize. If Getz can just keep the team developing prospects and pushing the win numbers forward for the next few years the Sox just might be in a position for Ishbia to come in with a flourish of spending to push the Sox from a near or slightly over . .500 team to a team that can win the division consistently. The fans from 20-50 years old may get to see a new stadium and a pretty good modern team that supports the farm and 26 man roster with equal gusto .

I was responding to a Caulfield post which I quoted so you should know what Im talking about. Maybe try reading what he said to elicit my response. These are handshake agreements. There is no money exchanged officially and anything else is a direct violation of MLB rules until there is a signature on a contract at the age they can sign which I believe is 16.

I was talking about the naysayers in general here more than I was Caulfield. Soxtalk in general does not chant "Development is not linear " over and over as a calming mantra. Future Sox was the one place in Soxtalk where more patient minds assembled until the rot invaded there too. One person got pissed when it was me not a moderator who reminded them of that but mods overlook people who are constantly kissing their ass and on the same wavelength as they are. Caulfield is so polite that I cant really be too hard on his wild theories like speculating Getz will give prospects he's acquired more chances than other prospects when theres been no indications so far of that. You'd think as an educator he'd be more CNN than TMZ. If you hire a bunch of coaches and implement data as a major tool for development and strive to make decision making more collaborative as a collective hive then his ego shouldnt be a factor. I dont think its Utopia but its not a KW or Hahn "multiple championships" ego as far as I can tell atm. I think higher draft picks will get more leeway than lower ones like resigning rather than non tendering Vaughn. That's fairly typical when you suck to give high draft picks a lot of rope.

Do you actually worry that far ahead about the position players and their abilities ? You're not leaving room for surprises . It's boring in your crystal ball. I know the Sox reality with JR makes for a boring off season but player development in season are always very controversial topics when it pits the hopeless against the hopeful. There's always enough for everybody to be right on at least 1 player per year since most prospects fail. So there will always be more hopeless people saying how they wish they were wrong but just playing the odds that failures far outnumber successes so being a pessimist ensures being right more often and therefore a smarter fan. Being an Eeyore is good for ones ego I guess.

Soxtalk needs to talk about something other than just nicknames for bad players. It may take till the ownership change to actually see supplementing our prospects with impact talent through free agency. JR isnt going to pay for that now. The Sox are a lame duck team waiting for the impact of new structural changes to start paying dividends maybe a year or 2 before the Ishbia's take over. It's a boring waiting game now every off season. Prospect and young players watch has to wait til the season starts.

It is what it is. Just build the foundation and opening the avenues for acquistions home and abroad and with more open paths for talent acquisition in the DR and perhaps Asia too, then results for those efforts will start bearing fruit in a few years. By the time the Ishbia's take over there should be trickles of higher end talent from the DR making its way through the farm system. This never was going to be a fast rebuild. JR provided enough money for Getz to build a better foundation and infrastructure and a winning culture in the minors. That's the complete opposite of all his other years as owner when the focus was on the 26 man roster. Maybe that will translate to being much more competive in the division once theres also money to spend on the 26. There's no reason that the Sox can't make the playoffs on a more consistent basis in a division filled with small market teams with the Ishbias than they did under JR's miserly ownership. It's difficult for the fans because we cheer for the 26 man roster. We don't cheer for new coaches or minor leagues championships, new computers and software ,new scouts and front office personnel , slo mo cameras, new DR facilities. and Trajekt machines. The Sox haved shared those plans with the fanbase and it gets a collective sigh of "Yeah right we've heard BS like this before." Unless the changes result in consistent appearances in the playoffs we're arent interested because we have no idea how long just 1 playoff appearance will take. All we want to hear about is how big is the player payroll going to be. What else could they possibly share with the fans that's not obvious already ? Do you really think they'd hold a press conference to say the Sox aren't ever going to add any significant amount of money to player payroll while JR is still the owner.

Do you have figures to back up your wild claim? Kind of hard to spend on the 2026 and 2027 rosters right now without having players with multi year contracts but rest assured they will have 26 players in each year making at the very least the MLB minimum of $760K x 26 =$19,760,000 in 2026 so x 2 for 2027 would be another roughly $20M . So were looking at a minimum of close to $40M that will be spent in 2026 and 2027 ( a strike may change the figures) on the MLB rosters and likely much more since all 26 players will not be making minimum wages. What's your figures for international spending so far on guys years away. Give me players names that have already received money from the Sox for the 2026 through 2030 international classes along with the amounts they have received. .Officially the Sox can't even say they've reached agreements let alone provide monetary amounts yet you can ?

We have no idea if anyone is ace quality until it happens. We also have no idea if any of the hitting prospects will last as quality MLB hitters. As I have already stated its nearly impossible to field a successful team with just prospects without money which the Sox arent going to get from JR, without competitive balance help, which they dont qualify for , and to top it all off they will need either a new stadium or a new lease on the Rate. The Sox can't operate like a small market team because they aren't one. They don't get the same benefits as them. Getz' only job now is to pave the runway for the ownership change and not f*** things up. Just help the prospects develop and that's what he's trying to do. So far he's been able to get some results with Colson Montgomery ,Shane Smith , the Crochet trade ,made some good draft picks. He's garbage picking other arms and bats looking to develop talent lost in roster shuffles . After bottoming out as he was feeling his way through the mess I wonder if he had talks with Ishbia as well as JR about a prudent course of action to do as well as possible without much financial help. The Ishbia's seem like they want to be the next owners of the Sox but JR seems like he is calling the shots making sure his sons reap as much of a windfall as possible and leaving the Ishbia's with a stripped down franchise. But they accepted the terms so it would be great if they just let it play out and they eventually become the new owners. In the meantime nothing much happens while we all keep our eyes on the prospects. Anothe year like last year with guys like Colson , Shane Smith, Teel, Quero, Meidroth , Vasil, Vargas, Sosa Baldwin, Burke, Grant Taylor and Wikelman Gonzalez all having varying degrees of success when many had given up some of them for dead would go a long way toward fielding a team that can play more competitve baseball . Further improvement from the guys mentioned above and significant development of others could lead to another 10-20 game improvement. 75-80 wins may not seem like much but its not going backwards and brings us another year closer to new ownership and more prospects making their way up the ladder. We should get another top prospect no matter how the draft lottery shakes out in July. As much as people don't like veterans taking playing time from young players it appears to have worked well in 2025. Just eased some of them in without much pressure . Veterans performing adequately and providing an example of how to be good team mates and support each other made for a good culture in the clubhouse. Robert and Montgomery seemed to have a good bond. Lots of good stuff going on when you want to open your eyes to it. Hope is better than despair isn't it ? It's not exactly life and death . No reason for anyone to have to make up stuff to try to make everything about the Sox seem incompetent and support that narrative. Not every trades holds any significance no matter how you dissect it immediately.Things constantly change . Colson went from a great hope to a great disappointment to a great hope again. Some of us were right then wrong then right again. And we could still end up wrong again. We couldnt even speculate on Shane Smith's development because he was a Brewer prospect until he was a Rule 5 pick who became our All-Star representative while he was faltering only to rise again. This is one crazy wild , rollercoaster ride isn't it ? Sosa, Vargas, Noah Schultz, Hagen Smith, Grant Taylor, Meidroth all have seen their share of time on that ride too.

Carlos Quentin was coming off a - 0.8 bWar in his age 24 season in 2007 and needed labrum surgery on his non throwing arm that October who was a former big prospect that the Sox traded for and he put up a 5.3 bWar in 2008 but never put up those kind of numbers again. Kenny Williams was GM then.

Why do you always mention showing or proving the trade returns are legit ? Thorpe's been injured . He'd get a chance to prove hes healthy and/or good anyway. He's got a lot of eligibility . If he's worthy eventually he'll be an MLB pitcher if not i doubt his leash would be much longer than any other AAAA guy seeing if he can bounce back from TJ surgery while he was trying to pitch after bone spurs got shaved down in his right elbow. He likely won't pitch til June or July. He's basically in the same boat Crochet was without Crochet stuff. He may get thrown into AAA 1st .He should get real chances in '26 and '27 . It has nothing to do with the trade. He's just another arm trying to prove something. He still has 3 options and is Arb. eligible in 2028.

This.

Take your pick. Any team you want that fits the M.O. But it still won't work without Ishbia's money. It can only take you so far unless you develop 3 superstar hitters and 2 aces.

What name calling? It was a diagnosis . You've often told many posters that their feeling are hurt so if you can psycho-analyze without credentials so can I.

I like it !

Do you honestly not know why we are compsring ourselves to Tampa ? Really ? You think JR is putting any money in this team before he moves on to the Big Tax Shelter in the Sky ? Seems to me Getz is trying to copy Tampa Bay's approach since he knows he's not getting any money but the bare minimum or at least build a better foundation for when Ishbia takes over since being a big market team without the competitive balance benefits seems like folly.

You are totally delusional and paranoid. You think your arguments shouldnt be opposed and youre beyond reproach that you have to accuse me of stalking you and delete posts because you have a position of authority here ? You do nothing but spread false accusations and lie about the organization. You never talk baseball unless you think spreading lies about Bannister or Fuller is baseball talk. If you were a podcaster talking unsubstantiated crap you made up in your head out of the blue you'd be laughed off Youtube if that can actually happen. No single source that reports on the Sox with podcasts makes up stuff. Sox Machine, Locked on White Sox, Future Sox various podcasts, The 108, Sox in the Basement, CHGO, all give Getz a fair shake because they understand the circumstances he's working under. I dont ever see you posting links to podcast topics that say anything positive about the Sox. Talking baseball is talking about who these new coaches are, their backgrounds why they were hired. It is not repeating over and over OMG another guy from KC or saying same old Sox . That's what being stuck in the past is. Everything they do is just the same old Sox making the same old mistakes. That's you ,Sox Schizophrenic urging us all to drink the KoolAid of Doom. The Sox and me are out to get you 🤣.

And if JR passes before 2029 ?

Get over yourself. I've barely posted since tbe offseason started. You go out of your way to make ridiculous unsupported claims about new hires and bad mouth the organization. This is not some grudge I hold against you . This is your grudge against the organization because you put your trust in JR and he let you down. You were the most gung ho for the rebuild claiming at 1 point that the Sox could rebuild and win it all without anything but draft picks. Even when West Eddy says something like saying Colson's floor is Dejong you oppose him by saying his floor is an injured bum . I'm guessing you already know that when talent evaluators talk about floors and ceilings those terms apply to a range of outcomes for an uninjured MLB player. Of course anyone can be injured and have it ruin their career. You argue just to argue even when he makes a fairly benign point. I feel your pain brother. Im sorry JR has broken your heart and your spirit because you put your trust in him and even believing him after it all turned to s%*# and he said Getz was hired to turn things around quickly. So gullible . I didnt think you were born yesterday but apparently you were and now you spend your days trying to get all Sox fans to hang on to the past and not look forward to a new beginning. You'll be back in the fild someday. If not you wouldnt be here thinking youre on some mission to open eyes by spreading falsehoods and conjuring up negative speculation about Sox coaches creating all the Tommy John injuries or why coaching hires got fired from previous jobs as if the Sox are the only team that hires fired coaches. No brother you go out of your way to stir the masses. You're the Mike North now of Soxtalk.

I'm not sure either which is why I said unlikely to sutvive a change in ownership. If Jerry survives longer than 2029 I'm not sure what happens. Is the plan to sell regardless in 2029 even if JR is still alive ? If he passes before 2029 will the sons sell as soon as they can complete the sale asap or wait till 2029 when the stadium lease deal expires ?

Sorry bro never won a World Series

Thread title change time.Mods do your job.

Calling Getz a Yes man is what got him hired is a gross over simplification unless you can give me examples for things Jerry did the Getz was in favor of. Getz' sin was being a part of an unsuccessful organization and surviving the initial purge and then continuing the purge while fans said he was guilty by association because he couldnt Save Our Sox all by himself. Yes he was an in house and likely cheap hire. But if you speak up to the owner and likely say that KW and Hahn made insular decisions and left you out of decision making processes and that in their position that you would have a more collaborative and communicative process for decision making does that make you a Yes Man or just a guy who rather have seen things done differently ? Under JR' current ownership philosophy of staying out of debt so his sons can sell after his death without incurring large taxes Getz is dealing with a Reinsdorf no other GM of the Sox has ever dealt with before. So yes its a sad state of affairs and a slow climb from the abyss and could stall because prospects will fail and looking for hidden gems among other teams failed prospects and from Rule 5 picks is unlikely to be a winning strategy no matter who you hire as coaches. I just want to see some upwards movement towards .500 before the Ishbia's take over . But without some money you need a lot of draft picks to succeed and even Tampa Bay despite years of doing about as well as they could without much money never won a World Series. I think currently Getz is getting less than Tampa Bay because they get no competitive balance help from the league. It's a no win situation but its not an I give up situation either. Getz and his crew are unlikely to survive when new ownership arrives even if he gets the Sox above .500 at some point. As I said he's in a no win situation. So it's hard for me to scapegoat him . Everything he's doing is on a small scale while the rest of the GMs try to fleece him knowing the Sox are no threat unless they give him prospects who succeed.