CaliSoxFanViaSWside

This is a sad sad place some times. Caulfield is a great Sox fan. He wants to help and has ideas and is brave enough to share his ideas with us jerks he knows will scorn him and laugh at his ideas because we can't express ourselves in any other way than short chaotic bursts of sarcastic derision like cavemen grunting. Caulfield I think the mistake you are making is thinking the Sox actually want to compete quickly like Jerry told us. I, too, at first thought trying to get younger established high floor guys with control was more of a sure thing and the Sox could use more tradable assets. So early on in the Cease trade talks I suggested getting a controllable younger player who had already had a good year or 2. After all the Sox are so bad every avenue we turn seems like a dead end. So I figured try to get mix of a tradable controlled player and a prospect for Cease. I forgot the young controllable guy I wanted in return but it wasn't seen by the vocal majority as a good idea. We saw first hand how even the best prospects are extremely inconsistent in this organization or get injured. We think it's JRs fault for not hiring good scouts and development people and we probably are right . It also could be true that the Sox could be experiencing what other teams do with injuries and inconsistencies of many prospects. But what other choice do we have than to cling to the idea that Cease is a rare commodity worthy of the high asking price as recently described in a fangraphs article ? Getting top prospects is still viewed as the only way of actually getting in a strong position to be truly competitive again at least in recent competent organizations like the Astros, Tampa Bay, Orioles, Cubs Diamondbacks. Despite the way the rebuild crashed and burned, a bad organization like the Sox managed to get to the playoffs for 2 consecutive years for the 1st time in the franchise history. Those were exciting times and the glitter of top prospects is so very shiny until the corrosion sets in. The currently deceased rebuild showed us how destructive that corrosion can be when those prospects don't pan out. The corrosion is the nature of prospects, bad development, a bad organization , bad luck. Right now it could be all of those things combined. That makes for a very angry, divided, and confused fan base. Getz isn't calling it a rebuild because his boss says we want to compete as fast as we can . That's the excuse JR made for hiring Getz. Hit the ground running. A new guy from outside the organization will take time to learn everything Getz already knows. The scary thing is we can't yet get a handle on what Getz is doing for the future of the franchise. Everything he's done so far seems to be based on improving the current rosters defense and pitching at the expense of hitting . The only thing is it's all very temporary based on creating tradable pitching pieces out of the cheapest arms he could find. How could that go wrong ? It has very little chance of succeeding but that's how desperately the Sox need more guys who can brings in prospects . Getz knows it's a rebuild and he has to start from a terrible roster while Hahn got to start with a mediocre roster. Getz and the Sox are fucked if Cease or Robert start showing that same Sox corrosion that tarnished Giolito, Moncada , Eloy, Vaughn, Kopech and others. He's also fucked if he can't magically create some tradable pitching assets using defense and his staff to create something out of mostly nothing's. This is one high level SNAFU where nobody has the right answers and all ideas are inherently bad because the Sox haven't shown us that they are capable of running a Tampa Bay like organization that stresses low cost high level development of prospects , or do much of anything else right. This is everything we are getting from the fan base now. 1. We actually are expecting too much for Cease. 2. Cease is worth the high asking price but settle and trade him because something is better than nothing. 3. Start the season with Cease . Hold out for the best trade you can make by counting on a healthy and very good Cease. No further corrosion allowed . Cease will be shiny again. 4. Trade Robert ASAP before he turns into a pumpkin . Sell high before his shiny season gets Sox corrosion. 5. Robert, Jr. is too good to get what he is now truly worth based on his 1 healthy breakout season. Hold him for another year when he'll the model of health and a glorious vision of a shiny nice thing . 6. Getz is doing great. We might be able to win this crappy division if a few things fall our way. I like this new idea of speed, pitching and defense. f*** the HR , give me more Go Go Sox/ Royals championship baseball ! 7. We are going to be really bad in 2024. What the f*** is Getz doing ? He hasn't done one thing yet, as far as player transactions , go to improve the future. 8. Hope the Sox are just good enough in the 1st half of 2024 to actually trade half the pitching staff ,Moncada, Robert and Eloy for more prospects. We are a really traumatized fan base who finally realized that rebuilding with JR in charge is doomed to fail but now have to rebuild with JR still in charge hoping for more shiny happy prospects that can make us shiny, happy fans again... until the corrosion...

Ok that's why I assumed he'd be playing this year because he is getting paid and he may want to continue his career as long as he's productive and his time with the O's showed he can still be productive. He might not ever be worth picking up the option for 2025 but with a decent 2024 he can put himself in a good position for another couple million in 2025. It's just hard to imagine anyone giving up multiple millions in his mid 30's. You're not going to make close to that amount of money doing anything else. Unless you read something about him contemplating staying at home for a year because he's already getting $9.5M I assume he'll play this year and beyond.

No reason to pay for Merrifield and pay him w/ e it's going to cost when you can get Hicks for the minimum. I know Merrield brings some versatility but at this point of his career I don't think he's worth it. Use the money for Whit ( if that's the case) somewhere else. I don't think there's a reason to wait on a RF from the Cease trade when that may not happen until the trade deadline. There's no reason to wait on a minimum wage upgrade other than Hicks is holding it up for some reason.

Play little for a contender unless there is an injury or get a lot of PT with the Sox . He can retire right now if he wants to but I'd imagine if he was considering that he'd have announced it by now. He could get a lot of PT with the Sox probably batting in the top 6 in the lineup with his great walk rate in the 1st half with plenty of time to go to a contender in the 2nd half of the season when contending is more of a sure thing than it is at the beginning of the season.

I'm actually surprised this hasn't happened yet. High walk rate, switch hitter, great arm, backup CF and cheap cheap cheap. What are the Sox waiting for ? He'd get the most playing time here if he's cool with playing mostly RF. I know Hicks might be able to pick and choose among several teams but why wait ? Gives Colas plenty of time in AAA to show he can handle that level and make the necessary improvements.

I'm actually surprised the Sox haven't signed Aaron Hicks . He's 34 and sucked in his last stint with the Yankees but had a bit of a revival when the O's picked him up. Played mostly in CF but he can play all 3 OF positions. He has a strong arm so although he hasn't played a lot of RF he has the arm for it. Sprint speed says he's faster than Colas (50th% for Hicks 38th% for Colas) . In 65 games and 236 PA with the Orioles, the switch hitter hit .275/.381/.425/.806 ,Walk % 14.8 and career 12.7. So when push came to shove the O's opted to play Hicks a lot in CF when Mullins got hurt at the end of May. He easily got more PT than Cowser and Kjerstad combined. He’d be essentially a free pickup for whatever teams signs him. The Yankees are still on the hook for next year’s $9.5MM salary and a $1MM buyout on a 2025 option. A signing team would only pay Hicks at the $740K league minimum rate for whatever time he spends on the MLB roster, which would be subtracted from New York’s obligations. I'd sign him right now. He'd get a lot of playing time. What else could he want ?

You can continue to think it's fools gold but at least we have a recent end of season sample besides the from July 25th stats that were already given. The last 28 days of the season he played 19 games with 77 plate appearances. .292/.338/.597/.935 152 OPS+ . Of course it always is about his health but we do have 2019, 2021 and the recent samples from last year to at least know he can be very productive IF he can stay healthy. So I'll say silver lining rather than fools gold.

.281/.324/.464 /.788 with his usually good fielding is a pretty good line probably worth about 4 fWar over a full season (approx 145 games). Now if he can play often enough to duplicate his 2021 season of .263/.375/.412/.787 keep the same slugging he finished with in 2023 while upping his OBP back to the .350 range , then you're talking about an .800+ OPS and a 5 fWar guy. Depending on other teams 3rd base situation if Moncada is 2+ fWAR as they approach the deadline there could be some interested buyers.

You left out Elier Gil, Catcher, Venezuela.

Since we don't know who else they signed yet it's impossible to know. They have some DR signings and perhaps others .Seems like they always leave something in reserve for late signees or to trade. We may get more info this week or later.

Not Dominican , he's Venezuelan according to the link you provided.

Thanks kind of what I figured and then there's the prevailing voice in my head that keeps saying in supposedly down financial times when JR should be investing more in youth and player development he'll trade extra money away and let Getz play with $30-40M on dumpster dives retreads and nice guys who can field but can't hit all in the name of Ecksteindorf Ball.

Is all the money spent ? What's the breakdown of who the Sox signed , age, country , position played and bonus amount ?

That was Jordan Sanchez , 18yr old OF from Cuba . There were earlier tweets about him from Romero in this thread.

I won't pretend to know all the service time rules. According to Baseball Reference the Sox have him for 3 more years. Free Agency in 2027. If there's even a remote possibility of keeping him healthy enough to be a viable starting pitcher if the Sox can regain a year so much the better. Not sure if that's possible unless they keep him in the minors all year. But someone with a better understanding of service time rules may make it clearer.

When a team is so bad Zips doesn't even matter. I never quite understood the use for projection systems so I always leaned towards them pretty useless anyway.

Most of the misspellings I saw was after the Sox signed him .After we got used to seeing his name enough it got better. Performance is a whole other category.

I think if the plan is to stretch him out, the plan should also be to not use up his service time and if it's possible to gain some of it back and keep him on a starting pitching schedule . If he's in the bullpen you can't say we are only going to pitch you every 5th day. That's why I said I thought for sure he would spend at least half the year in the minors. If by some miracle he stays healthy and they can regain some service time to be able get him slowly up to 5 innings , he would become more valuable as a starting pitcher to then establish a longer period of time as a starter with the Sox until which, at some point, he can be traded. Of course it all depends on keeping him healthy which is a very very tall order. I know Getz mentioned him being on the Sox this year but I can't imagine him being there until he is stretched out on a starting pitcher's schedule when they feel he can give them at least 4 -5 innings and close to 100 pitches per start.

To the bat cave .. pow ! Splat!

Ben In Ten Di

Good to know but I was talking about mostly about why other teams are ignoring many of the free agents and if money for those teams most affected by it is tight ,a guy like Cease as an alternative to the cost of free agency ,is a helluva bargain. The price is steep in prospects but most teams rarely give up more than one who pans out in these types of trades. It worked out very nicely for the Nationals and the Red Sox who both World Series after getting Sale and Eaton . Evevm the Cubs won a championship too. Don't these teams like the Orioles realize that trading with the Sox, while the Sox are rebuilding ,results in those teams winning a Champioship ? ?

If it's the RSN thing causing less spending ,wouldn't you think that Cease being fairly inexpensive would work to the Sox advantage ? I understand it also might make prospects more valuable also but I would also think your older and defensively challenged types prospects will start to lose some of their value too. I think that's why the Dodgers acted on Busch.

There are a lot factors in play besides the other sides repetitive "Getz is asking too much" rhetoric . Just because a deal hasn't been completed yet means nothing. You're starting to sound like our Baltimore Bros. Getz has a plan for the off-season and we have heard repeatedly that it involves waiting out the market and for Snell and Montgomery to sign 1st. Right or wrong Snell and Montgomery are still out there. Getz is being tested by the other GMs more experienced than he is. If you're getting shaky about it now , what are you going to do if Cease starts pitching into the season ? I know many here (myself included) who don't want Getz to do that. But some are fine with it . Too risky vs. a risk worth taking. Cease ,Snell and Montgomery are all Scott Boras clients. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that we aren't privy to.

When will Davis Martin be ready to pitch ?

Made sense to me.