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I'm not advocating getting Outman from the Dodgers in a Cease trade. That ship has sailed even though Getz might ask for him the Dodgers wont part with him now. I'm saying if it wasn't for 58 AB's Busch wouldn't be a top 100 prospect anymore and he can't field a lick. Rankings are deceptive. Outman was never ranked and yet put up 4.4 fWar last year because he was a very good defender and baserunner to go along with OBP and power. Excuse me If I don't trust your scouting report on Busch or the extreme risk of Outman becoming just a guy profile. If you still cant understand how Outman always had a better chance than Busch or Vargas to become a useful MLB players I can't help you. Speed ,defense, athleticism and a discerning eye along with his power gave him an opportunity. Busch still can't get an opportunity because he doesnt possess useful tools beyond hitting. Even Vargas got more opportunities than Busch because he's faster and can play multiple positions although none of them very well. Those other skills mean a lot when it comes to the opportunity to continue to get playing time. Unfortunately Vargas just didnt hit well enough or field well enough to stick but he did walk 12.5 % and K'd 20% and managed a .1 fWar and 85wRC+ in 81 games . In 27 games Busch walked 9.8% K'd 33% and his fWar was a -.5 and 49 wRC+. Skills give you opportunities. Even the Dodgers know that Vargas had enough skills to get him a chance over Busch. Should the Dodgers have given Busch more playing time over Vargas because of his ranking ?

I'm having a really hard time seeing Busch as a can't miss hitter.Sure he put up great numbers at AAA last year but once upon a time the majority here viewed Vaughn as a can't miss top hitter and now Busch is going to clean his clock? Busch is older than Vaughn and is about as useful at 1st base as Vaughn. He's also not much faster than Vaughn ,26.9% vs 25.5 % in sprint speed. The whole reason I like Outman better than Busch or Vargas last year was because Outman could play all 3 OF positions very well and has near elite speed a shade below Robert. If the bat failed he wouldve still been a likely guy to be a strong side of a platoon and or at worse a 4th OF who can PH, PR and play very good defense. If Busch fails to hit you have nothing and he doesn't fit the Getz profile for what he's looking for.Of course the Dodgers are going to push hard for anyone to take Busch in a trade. Luckily the Dodgers didnt give him enough AB's to ruin his rookie status or less he'd be nowhere to be seen in the top 100 like the Sox did with Colas. The fact that Busch is still the 44th ranked prospect in baseball is actually laughable. If the Dodgers had given him 58 more ABs he'd be just an ex top 100, 26 yr old who put up great AAA numbers who is useless anywhere but DH and 1st base . How anyone can salivate over him because he is technically still 44th on MLB Pipeline and the Dodgers #2 prospect is beyond me. The only thing holding him in those rankings is 58 ABs he didnt get. Miguel Vargas was the Dodgers 5th ranked prospect and #94 in MLB Pipeline a year ago. Why is no one still clamoring for him ? He's still 24, a switch hitter and the Dodgers played him more than Busch last year and he lost his rookie status so he's no longer ranked. He played more than Busch because he actually can run a little, play LF, played a little 3B, 2B and 1st base no not well but better and way more versatile than Busch. The Dodgers gave him a pretty good run from April through June then sent him down. After he got sent down in 60 games in AAA he hit 10 HRS , 407 OBP .886 OPS.

There's really no pressing need to concentrate on those 2 positions when there are major holes all over the roster. At minimum the Sox are going to be very bad this year and maybe slightly less bad the following year That should be plenty of time to figure out if Sosa and Colas along with the other top prospects can be anything resembling MLB talent and also plenty of time to trade Cease and maybe Robert to bring even more talent into the pipeline and on the roster and make even more trades if any of this years starting pitchers on short term contracts results in some tradable value and start resembling a team that can compete in the Central by 2026.

Or it could mean no one will meet his price and Cease won't be traded til the mid season deadline and he'll get injured or be even worse than last year . Or Getz eventually lowers his asking price and we all cry that the return sucks. Have to balance the downside risk with the upside to be fair.

I don't know where the Reds fit into the whole RSN/Bally fiasco but Getz has a tough row to hoe trying to pry prospects out of teams who now must cling to prospects in order to maximize payroll efficiency. That's why I keep suggesting that he may have to take MLB talent with 2 -3 years of control left along with less prospects while teams are now copying the Tampa model of keeping the farm flourishing by trading away your productive MLB startiers before they become too expensive. It may be very hard to win a World Series Tampa's way but it keeps you at or near the top when done right. But then again it's not easy to win any World Series . Can't say I blame any team that hoards prospects now among the small market teams . There may be a lot of teams interested in Cease but it's looking like it could take a while . Of course if you are one of those who think all these tales of financial woe by owners is mostly fabricated BS and accounting tricks then ignore this.

Yes that is the emphasis in no uncertain terms that I mentioned. Better start earning your place, be better than you have been. You have a lot to learn and a lot to lose.

I wouldn't say they have written him off but they are emphasizing that despite constantly being told or coached to make better decisions he continues to make the same mistakes. They want to see progress in his approach to fundamentals and dedication to thinking the game and put his talent to better use. He's not getting any younger and they are emphasizing to him in no uncertain terms that he needs to take what he is told seriously. They wanted him to play winter ball but looks like he is a brand new father so he chose to be there for the beginning of his new son's life instead.

I really enjoy CHGO coverage of the Sox particularly Vinnie Duber. He measures everything he says about the Sox making sure he isn't overly critical so as to not jeopardize his media credentials or journalistic neutrality but he is fair in his assessments . CHGO also does a fine job covering all the other major Chicago sports teams too.

Earned the burn out of turn . Learn to yearn.

I was hoping for him just to add to the confusion.Sirotka, Soroka Sirota ! All Mikes !

Well looks like all our projected starters are going to be dubbed The Bannister Bunch or Bannister's Boys. Difficult assignment turning chopped liver into prime rib but it seems like he takes a lot of pride in helping the downtrodden pitchers rediscover their abilities.

I haven't been in his head like you have but like any player who hasn't lived up to the hype there are reasons. For him it's been finding a 3rd pitch and command. However like many of our players health has been a large factor , particularly his knee.

I know you are describing it as "haven't had much luck since" but luck is the residue of design. International Free agents have never been the Sox strong suit among a host of other things. Branch Rickey like to use that quote about luck being the residue of design which is attributed John Milton in the 17th Century. To expand the definition we have this: Luck isn't for the chosen few, it's the residue of design. It's created through conscious, intentional focus and clarity – and by being willing to make choices that support rather than subtract from your intended outcome. stephaniepollock.com This does not sound like the White Sox under the Reinsdorf's ownership in many many different areas.

That won't happen, he needs starters innings badly. He has to be developed as a starter. Leasure probably is in the pen. It's very difficult to project anything for the bullpen when so many names are so new to us.

I'm aware of the situation but he's looking for a job . I know you and I and many others have a very low opinion of JR but that level of pettiness is hard to fathom if he truly wants a shot to find some viable starting pitcher candidates who fit his budget and has a good name recognition with fans. It might not be as unlikely to happen as bringing back Tim Anderson to play 2nd base but they both have bottomed out and may provide upside. That seems to be where we're at right now, searching for cheap bounceback candidates.

The whole starting pitching staff are projects.

Exactly and I just got done saying the exact same thing. There's absolutely no reason to put him in the pen. Best case scenario for him and the Sox is to make him as valuable of a pitcher as possible. Where the Sox are at right now is finding value not wins or losses or finding BP pieces. He's not a FA till 2026 so he's still got 2 years to make good as a Starting Pitcher.

I think they don't sign any of them but if they do it'll be the last one unsigned among the three. Why not throw Giolito in the mix too?

Also assuming they get no other SP candidates. I'll just say Feddes because he pitched 180 innings last year.

I don't think that will be the rotation at all. I know it's your preferred starters but it appears they will have enough arms for the opening day 5 starters to be replaced due to struggles or injury. I see no reason to put Kopech in the pen. It's the Sox job to try to get some value from him as a starter before he reaches FA. Peak value would be as a successful starter. That may never happen but they still have try to extract upside especially now that Bannister will have major input. He may not be the same guy who was a top prospect anymore but there's still a chance ,albeit a small one, that he can harness the stuff he now possessesand become a mid or back of a rotation arm. All the starting pitchers who aren't rookies in 2024 are in short term impress me types roles. Any one of Sorotka, Feddes, Toussaint, Scholtens and Kopech who can give quality innings without massive ERAs will get chances to provide tradable value. Guys like Schuster and Nastrini are the AAA backups. They have to prove they are worthy of being called up and be future parts of the rotation. No sense wasting their options and years of control right away. There has to be a plan in place to find value right now not your future starting pitchers.

I know it was a long post but the point was that Baltimore isn't going to move their OF prospects when they probably want to move Mullins, Hays and Santander as they get too expensive for them to keep like TB does. If the Sox truly want to compete asap they can't just go for prospects. They do need MLB talent . We just don't know if the whole retool stuff is BS and if Getz is going to be seeking only prospects. We saw how our own trading for prospects worked out in the last rebuild. Injuries and inconsistency while waiting for them to reach their potential didnt work out. I don't know how many times I saw Eloy will hit .300 and bash 40 HR's , Moncada will be awesome and Vaughn is a generational bat. This board went gaga over a lot of prospects who wet the bed. This is like deja vu all over again.

The downside of course is that in waiting Robert could revert back to the often injured player we saw before 2023. Look at Buxton. He hasnt had over 400 PA's since he was 23 in 2017 and won a GG and finished 18th in MVP voting. Right now we have no clue how Getz is going to approach the compete as quickly as possible Reinsdorf strategy. Was that Reinsdorf being stupid , lying or just not wanting to put a rebuild label on what was going to happen. Even now Getz still prefers to call it a retool. It's always possible that Baltimore would prefer to move Mullins, Santander and Hays. Mullins and Hays are FA in 2026, Santander in 2025 but those were his 3 starting OFers in 2023 while he has Holliday, Cowser and Kjerstad to replace them when each are deemed ready. They can do that 1 OF at a time with Santander being the closest to FA. I truly believe that is Baltimore's plan I have no idea what Reinsdorf expects Getz to do or how truly low the payroll will be this year. It's actually looking like as low as it can possibly be although it's quite early in the off season We think it's a rebuild so we want a bunch of prospects but if Getz treats it like a retool you can get legit OF talent and perhaps a few high end prospects from Baltimore to add to the Sox lineup and you might end up with a decent lineup. There's always the pitching which is still going to be a problem when talking about competing but maybe Getz has a 3 year plan back to competing in the weak AL Central and any MLB player he acquires can be traded. There's a lot to be said for getting MLB talent that still has controllable years left rather than the 3 ring circus that is thrusting prospects into the White Sox system when development isn't their strong suit. Also as we have already witnessed when the prospects get injured or are inconsistent in their brief appearances in the Majors there's always the wait wait wait like with Eloy, Vaughn, Moncada , Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Rodon, Madrigal , Collins,and whoever else we were counting on to be productive MLB players who would lead us to a World Series. We all think this is going to take another 5 or more years but JR always wants to dangle that carrot of let's get as good as possible as fast as we can as long as we compete in the Central and piecemeal another 2005 team together and keep your fingers crossed. Would Baltimore do a mega deal for Cease and Robert if the Sox took 2 of Mullins , Hays and Santander and multiple prospects or is the 4 years of Robert going to be too rich for them? Selling high on Robert wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. If the Sox or the fans keep expecting a Kings ransom of prospects the Sox are particularly good at screwing up prospect development and getting one career year from a player before they tank. Robert could be next in line . Talking about just how good he is going to be or longing over prospects sounds way too familiar from this board.

You could always make a prediction based on what your gut is telling u.?

I stand corrected. I'm not as good on my phone pulling info ( small screen old eyes).I saw the DOB and didn't see the DOD listed under it which is why I almost exclusively use my computer when fact checking.

From what I just gleened from Baseball Ref it looks like both Claudell and Garr are both still living. Both weren't bad for the Sox from my memory which might rival yours for accuracy but Washington did have a lot talent but his effort was always questioned. Garr had his best years with the Braves ( career .306 BA with maybe a batting title in there) and Washington with the A's.