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You know I understand doubling down on one's previous positions especially when we are a long long way from seeing how the trade works out. Early returns are way in the Marlins favor but what's a couple of weeks when we may need years to figure out how this trade worked out. It was one big leaguer with upside and tons of cheap control,which doesn't mean as much with a 27 yr old as it does a someone younger. There was also his injury history , defense , and OBP problems If his assessment of Burger was he is who he is or that the power numbers are unsustainable I could agree with that partially. Not the he is who he is part. I never thought that was true. Development is not linear especially when you miss 3 years of it. Burger would have to change his approach but he was always working on that though . If he wasn't he never would have got the 11 walks in July he got with the Sox. So now with the Marlins he's making use of how hard he hits the ball not just for long and max exit velo HR's but for using that high hard hit percentage to smash balls all over the field. Maybe it would have happened with the Sox or maybe the Marlins showed him something that has paid off right away. But for a guy to double down and now say he feels sorry for anyone who believes in Burger is even more arrogant than I can be. I don't need anyone's pity. I have strong opinions, positive opinions about Burger but I know his power numbers will suffer if he becomes a more well rounded hitter but he'll still be capable of big power numbers the better and smarter he becomes as a hitter. I also realize that odds are always in the favor of someone who predicts failure for 27 yr old guys who haven't immediately shown they understand an advanced approach. It's really playing the odds more than anything else while you spout off numbers. He really shouldn't feel sorry for us because we choose to believe he can get better even though we know the odds aren't with us but we have seen his attitude, desire and work ethic and yes even some encouraging results this season that suggests he really cares about being better. That's why so many people liked the guy. If Jake fails, I'm not afraid of being wrong and liking a player and looking at the positive signs of his character and results to come to a conclusion that he can be better than he had shown with the Sox, which wasn't so bad .

I meant no disrespect . You are one of my favorite guys on Soxtalk. But it was quite a popular thread and yes moving it makes people forget about it. Pale Hose talk is by far the most popular thread in Soxtalk. It may not take a colossal effort to click 2 times but I think most Sox fans either use Pale Hose Talk or Future Sox most of the time. It's more a matter of breaking your usual patterns than effort. I have no quarrel with it being a popular thread in Diamond Talk . You were just doing your job and sometimes I don't agree with everything Mods do. No biggie. Many people loved the Burger comeback story, his attitude and mostly his performance on the field and how he talked about actually using the things he needed to study pitchers at home and especially when he said it wasn't available on the road. I forget what the thing was called but I do remember Ozzie making fun of it on the post games shows as if modern tech shouldn't mean so much to players but it does when someone wants to improve as much as Burger did. Instead of laughing about it Guillen should ve been applauding his desire to use a tool he thought was very helpful.

AH you remember Stone Garrett was one of my guys too that I mentioned who would be good to take a flyer on but the Nats picked him up before the Sox could . He's got 1.5 fWar in 86 games . He spent time in the minors this year and might've had an injury also. His line with the Nats is .279 , .351, .473, .825. I would've had a good off season despite the usual guff you take for suggesting guys no one knows about. But ultimately I didnt think the Dodgers were going to trade Outman and it's doubtful the Sox wouldve offered Garrett an MLB contract like the Nats did.

Right I know he mentioned it butin case anyone that saw earlier tweet about 6 HR's and didn't notice the date on it, was aware he was up to 8 now.

Adrian Gil is another 17 yr old whose BA and OBP is higher than Mongollon's while slugging is slightly less. .331 .472 .472 .944 Gil 16 days younger than Mongollon and both from Venezuela. 6' 193 2nd base. RH The 2 HR's by Mongollon gives him 8 on the season. Badlers Tweet said 6 but that was from 2 days ago so didnt count the 2 today.

My 2 favorite players of 2023 just went head to head . Burger hit a long fly ball to CF with 2 outs and men on 1st and 2nd in 1st inning of the 1st game of today's doubleheader with the Dodgers. James Outman tracked it right to the wall and caught it while crashing his back against the wall and falling to the ground. If you have the MLB app it's there under MLB Most Popular.

I think it was the only way to combat how polarizing the trade was. Too many bashing Burger and too many pro Burger people bashing the trade. I fell somewhere in the middle of not bashing the trade but very pro Burger. Even media people like Garfien and his cohort/cohost Ryan McGuffey were sad to see Burger go. I do however reserve the right to bash the trade if Burger ends up having 3 or 4 good seasons while Eder lanquishes in the minors or can't become part of the starting rotation.

Global warming and the rise in the temperature of the Pacific Ocean has made the nearly impossible possible. Should be quite chaotic here in So Cal depending on how seriously people take the weather reports and stay off the roads in areas expected to have problems. There is certain to be quite a bit of flooding and mud slides. Just hope no lives are lost.

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Ky Bush pitching today for Birmingham and should be Jake Eder tomorrow.

Speaking of their 1st round pick Nolan Schanuel... 40 days after the draft they called him up and then he gets his 1 hit has an unassisted DP and has the assist on the throw home that completed the triple play. The only thing missing was an Angels win. But quite the debut. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38215301/nolan-schanuel-mlb-draft-rookie-los-angles-angels

In his recent hot streak Burger had 3 hits off Verlander and 2 off Gerrit Cole.

I realize Jake's no longer on the Sox but moving this to the Diamond Club almost seems like a deliberate attempt to stifle continued talk of the trade. I'd understand moving it to Diamond talk once interest in discussing the trade lagged and it dropped off the 1st page of Soxtalk. How is the Kenyan Middleton talk about his mother complaining that the Sox didn't allow his children in their daycare rate high enough not to get moved to Diamond Club ? Is gossip mongering more important than actual baseball talk? Moving the Burger thread to Diamond talk almost seems as bad as the Sox not putting Middleton's name on the Scoreboard when he returned in light of returning as a visiting player after he ripped the Sox clubhouse rules. Just thought I'd mentioned that Burger now has a 2.3 fWAR and although it's not official yet because WAR can also move down but Burger's 2.3 is higher than Eloy's best of 1.7 in 2022. In only 15 games with the Marlins he's put up .9 fWar . How is this possible for a 1B/DH type? I know plenty of that .9 in 15 games is offense but his defensive fWar has also been getting better which accounts for the almost 1 full fWAR increase in 15 games. His wRC+ has also risen from 115 to 121. His BABIP which I previously noted in discussing the trade and how Burger may improve in the future ,has risen from .225 to .259. His OBP has risen from .279 to .298, his BA from .214 to .234. His slugging has stayed the same at a robust .527. His wOBA has risen from .337 to .347. His current line with the Marlins is .333 , .397 , .526, .923. Of course I do realize that we're still talking about small sample sizes here and this is probably the hottest 15 game stretch of his young career. But it does go to show that when the naysayers said the Sox sold high and that Burger's defense made him more of a 1B/DH guy than a 3rd baseman that those things were not necessarily true, at least in the 15 games after the trade. I hope Jake and the Marlins can continue playing well and I get to see them in the playoffs where hot small sample sizes actually do have relevance.

That's speculation of course. I know who gets drafted especially in the early rounds is a group effort, Hahn, KW Sr. maybe as well as Jr. ( who knows) scouts and even JR has been known to stick his nose in on picks. I can't even imagine Hahn thinking he has the knowledge required to overrule a top draft pick. At least KW Sr. has some ancient scouting knowledge in his background but he has one foot out the door . Hahn should 've been out the door already and if he's a lame duck GM why give him that much power ? The only conclusion I can reach if Hahn had anything to do with picking Gonzalez is that he will be the Sox GM next year.

I expected the usual defense of him from you and perhaps he trusts you not to spill the beans and give away whatever position he holds that puts him in the know. I I guess as a fan who reads his posts like the usual cryptic comment he just made that Shirley might not have been responsible for the Jacob Gonzalez pick is frustrating. I mean I get it, It's a group effort and Shirley is supposed to be the guy in charge . Basically so much of what we hear as fans is that whoever is in charge really isn't in charge. So much of what we post as fans is total speculation trying to assign blame to someone . I had to look this up but and I made a mistake Harold made the original post that said KW Jr. wasnt part of the Sox of player development any more and I responded to him on August 1st. He's still listed on whitesox.com Minor League Operations Assistant General Manager/Player Development Chris Getz Director of Minor League Administration Kathy Potoski Assistant Director, Player Development Ken Williams Jr. Special Assistant to Baseball Operations José Contreras

Do you actually trust that Harold is an insider ? Lately all I've been seeing lately are posts on Ken Williams Jr having an important roll in Sox minor league development. I brought that up a week maybe 10 days ago and it seems like all of a sudden I see a bunch of posts about him. Harold said he wasn't a part of the organization any more to my post. I responded that he was still listed on whitesox.com among the employed. After that I didn't hear anything. It's only because of Harold that I still really don't know if KW Jr is still around. Who knows for sure ? Someone show me something that says he isn't part of the organization anymore besides the usual misinformation we get from Harold. He says something then says nothing to support it. I think in most cases why hint at something if you can't give the whole story ?

So the Sox have Korry Lee. Adam Hackenberg and Xavier Fernandez at AAA. Seems like a pretty solid trio to go along with Carlos Perez. We don't hear about Fernandez often and I found this on him :Drew Osborne of The Royals Farm Report stated “Fernández is a solid catcher who will be a big league catcher at some point in the near future ... he could be a backup immediately in the majors. His defense is outstanding. Fernández blocks well and is a tremendous receiver with soft hands that frame well. As far as throwing, he has gunned down minor league runners at a 39% pace in his career and 41% this season in NWA. His throws are low, on the money, and carry well.” As far as I can tell that was from 2018 . Here's a link to the article from Feb 2022.https://www.southsidesox.com/2022/2/15/22932205/south-side-sox-white-sox-top-prospect-no-59-xavier-fernandez#comments My question is how good is his defense really ? I'm pretty sure we were hearing glowing reports on Carlos Perez' defense too. Fernandez seems like a solid hitter and is already 28 between Perez and the trio at AAA why would the Sox be hanging onto Grandal and Zavala. I understand Zavala has a decent rep with working with the pitchers but between Perez, Lee, Hernandez and Zavala that seems like a group you can let play in MLB and until whoever ultimately grabs the bull by the horns. AT this point I'm thinking it's not Zavala. I know Quero isn't going to be rushed so wouldn't it behoove the Sox to cycle through what they have starting right away to separate the wheat from the chaff until Quero is ready ?

A little goes a long way with fans. However I haven't seen anything lately that leads me to believe the fans are important to them.

Our hearts ?

He was . That wasn't him out there its was the shell of him. He had nothing. Bummer pitched yesterday also. Plenty of guys were available.

Just to make this day even better all 6 White Sox minor league teams won today by a combined score of 62-19. Also Edgar Quero looking very savage today !

But apparently we miss Jake Diekman .

Thank you all for the updates,

Good things happened tonight. Bullpen pitched 5 shut out innings in Wrigley. Lane Ramsey with 1st career MLB victory and Santos with the 1.2 IP hard working save. Made it look easy 0 runs 0 hits 0 walks 3 K.

Right the way Balta is thinking is that you can take defensive war , offensively WAR and Baserunning WAR add it all up and you get his total fWAR. That's not how it works. He's 2.0 baserunning, 9.8 Offensively and -2.1 defensively. 11.8 - ( -2.1) would equal 9.7 fWAR even if you cancel out that baserunning is part of his offensive WAR you would still get a 7.7 fWAR instead of the 2.0 that it is.